Tigerofthewind
01-07-2008, 12:42 AM
Here's a thread of all the formation uses and tactics that I know of and find useful. Feel free to add. Note that these are all for either 2 ball or 3 ball formations and that the formations are done with a fair distance away, usually a screens length or somewhat close to one.
There's going to be alot of repeating of stuff so instead of saying balls all the time I'm just going to refer to them as either being Pb/Kb/Sb/HSb/Db.
------------------------------Zoning formations------------------------------
K ball> S Ball:
Straight ball Condition
Usage: Either used as a zoning tool that forces the opponent to IAD or jump. Can also be used as a shield when dashing in and advancement. Probably the most versatile in terms of zoning out of all the formations.
P Hit - There's alot of uses and conditions concerning this so I'll split it up.
Condition 1: P as soon as the S ball starts forming. Kb and Sb will launch simulteanously with Sb being behind Kb. Depending on your timing of the P hit, Sb will be slightly higher or lower than Kb or will be level and the two blue auras surrounding the balls will overlap with eachother. Higher and level conditions do no effect the followups but lower does. Note that if you don't followup with any of the following hits, it's possible for characters to 6P their way through and may catch you while trying to summon more balls. Furthermore, if opponents are close enough, some characters their low pokes will get you.
Higher and Level conditions:
After you've hit the balls, you can followup with a 6P. This will change the trajectory of the balls to bounce off the ground and then go almost upwards. Useful for those who like to Airdash in. However, it should also be noted that doing this too early can lead to being punished as the opponent will be able to dodge the balls and you'll be stuck in recovery frames of 6P. It's usually best to dash and follow the balls and/or wait to see what the opponent does then 6P. You can also do 6HS, but it is slightly risky. 6HS would mainly be for opponent a bit further away and you want a good preemptive attack.
Lower ball condition(Note that these conditions can also work with Higher and Level however it's more consistent with Lower):
So after you've hit Sb/Kb with P you have a couple of options you can do. The first is 6P. Unlike the high and level conditions, when hit the Sb/Kb with 6P the balls will not go in the same direction but instead both will go in different directions. Sb will go about 10 degrees off of Vertical towards Venom while Kb will go towards the enemy. Furthermore, depending on how late you decide to hit this, either both balls will travel at the same speed or the Kb will travel at a much lower speed(P hit speed). There are a few cases however where Sb will travel slow and Kb will travel fast. This is more useful than the one direction because the Kb will keep opponents who haven't already jumped and try to get in from jumping as well as Sb provides some cover Venom. At the worst Venom might get hit and knocked down far reaching air move like Baiken's j.S but it's not too bad for most characters. Venom will have recovered to be able to block anything coming his way as well as the Sb coming back your way will most likely hit the opponent. Furthermore, the condition where Sb travels slow is good as well as your opponent will have to stop their attack string in order to block the ball.
HS is the other followup that you can do. The timing is somewhat strict though. Connecting HS right after P will cause the balls to split and fly at the opponent very quickly. They'll either be still on the ground blocking that or in the air blocking that or eating shit. There's 3 seperate conditions that may happen when you do this.
1. Sb will travel slow downwards and Kb travels fast upwards
2. Sb will travel fast downwards and Kb travels slow upwards
3. Both balls travel fast.
All of these conditions don't really matter since all of them leave you in the advantage position. There's pretty much no way that I can think of for an opponent to get this other than Eddie with his Drunkard Shade and with some sort of projectile so pretty much Venom is safe to summon more balls.
Condition 2: This condition is similar to the first one with the exception that the Sb and Kb are not touching. It's pretty much the same idea as Condition 1 except with minor difference. The first is the 6P will now only change the trajectory of Sb to go upwards while Kb doesn't change direction. S is also now usable. It's basically the same idea as HS except can be done later. To make it angle like HS the balls still have to be somewhat close to eachother. If the balls are in condition 1 the S will whiff. Same principles though. Another thing is if spaced far enough apart S will only hit Sb. This will speed up the Sb. The basic effect of this is that if the opponent jumps to dodge the Sb they'll then have to deal with Kb which most likely if they try super jump or AD, they might fall into Venom's 6P or 6HS.
2P Hit: There's not much to be said here. You basically wait for the balls to set and then you hit them with 2P and then P or the other way around. It'll give a sort of Tiger effect like in Street Fighter depending on how you space them out. You can also this with single balls as well.
2S: Same shit as 2P but faster. Good for forcing the opponent to advance however if close enough they may catch you during the recovery frames.
HS Hit: Fast balls going at the opponent. Good to change it up if you're mainly using slow balls.
K Hit: Good for forcing opponent to either block or dodge. Fast recovery so you can P the Kb afterwards therefore making it tough for those looking to airdash in and punish you. Probably a much better choice in using this than S Hit.
Angle ball condition
K Hit: basic split. Not much to be said. Good zoning tool.
S Hit: Faster version of K hit. Does more damage on connect.
2P Hit: Creates a slow split. Very good for space control. Can followup with Stinger Aim for 3 balls or summon another Pb or Sb to further force the opponent to block. Repeat and it'll make it very hard for the opponent to try and get in. After the 3rd ball summon you then have alot of options and have enough time to summon another set of two or 3 balls. Should be noted that this is better than the Kb>Pb>P>Pb formation because the balls are spaced closer together making it tougher for the opponent to break through and gives you more time to summon more balls.
K ball>P ball
Usage: This formation is essentially the same as Kb>Sb however is more focused on angles.
P Hit: Will create an angle similar to the 2P Hit of Kb>Sb formation. Angle is not as evenly divided as the other one. Can be followed up with another Pb summon.
K Hit: faster version of P hit. Similar to K hit of other Kb>Sb
S Hit: Similar to Kb>Sb formation.
HS hit: Fastest of all the hits. Does a straight line with both balls.
S ball> P ball
Usage: Essential the same as Kb>Pb but the Sb bounces at a lower angle.
P hit: If hit early enough, only the Pb will hit and the Sb will remain. useful for using as a shield for going in as well as the Sb there helps with either retreating or pressure. If not, Sb will create nice angle low to the ground while Pb will cover mid-high screen.
K hit: faster version of P hit with pretty much the same conditions and effects.
S hit: will send both balls straight. Pb will be a small distance behind Sb.
HS hit: Faster version of K hit
HS ball>P ball
Usage: Since the distance between the two balls is a bit greater, the Pb won't hit HSb right away. This formation has it's uses like when you want a late split. Pb provides coverage for those jumping in since it goes in a straight line until it connects with HSb. Should be noted that Venom should hit the balls before they completely go into formation or else split won't connect.
P Hit: Like I mentioned. connects with HSb late for late split. Provides air coverage for those trying to AD in.
K Hit: Faster version of P hit.
HS ball>K ball
Usage: Best usage is probably to control space. Not that useful but good if your opponent is turtling.
2P Hit: Probably the best option for this formation. Basically what you do is hit the HSb and afterwards you have alot of options to pick from. You can either do j.P to zone out the opponent(note this can be done in the reverse) or j.S which will connect HSb and Kb in a low split. You can also use j.K but it's not as good. Another good option is to use j.HS. This will create a fast upward split depending on how early you j.HS(note, it doesn't have to split with HSb in order for it to potential catch the opponent in the air) that will catch your opponent if they try to IAD in or jump. All of these can be airdashed afterwards but j.HS is the hardest I find.
K Hit: Another good option to use with this formation. Same as the 2P but faster. Advisable to use to force the opponent to make a move. recovery is fast enough to possibly punish the opponent for dashing in. Low enough that 6Ps won't be able to dodge.
More formations to come!!!
There's going to be alot of repeating of stuff so instead of saying balls all the time I'm just going to refer to them as either being Pb/Kb/Sb/HSb/Db.
------------------------------Zoning formations------------------------------
K ball> S Ball:
Straight ball Condition
Usage: Either used as a zoning tool that forces the opponent to IAD or jump. Can also be used as a shield when dashing in and advancement. Probably the most versatile in terms of zoning out of all the formations.
P Hit - There's alot of uses and conditions concerning this so I'll split it up.
Condition 1: P as soon as the S ball starts forming. Kb and Sb will launch simulteanously with Sb being behind Kb. Depending on your timing of the P hit, Sb will be slightly higher or lower than Kb or will be level and the two blue auras surrounding the balls will overlap with eachother. Higher and level conditions do no effect the followups but lower does. Note that if you don't followup with any of the following hits, it's possible for characters to 6P their way through and may catch you while trying to summon more balls. Furthermore, if opponents are close enough, some characters their low pokes will get you.
Higher and Level conditions:
After you've hit the balls, you can followup with a 6P. This will change the trajectory of the balls to bounce off the ground and then go almost upwards. Useful for those who like to Airdash in. However, it should also be noted that doing this too early can lead to being punished as the opponent will be able to dodge the balls and you'll be stuck in recovery frames of 6P. It's usually best to dash and follow the balls and/or wait to see what the opponent does then 6P. You can also do 6HS, but it is slightly risky. 6HS would mainly be for opponent a bit further away and you want a good preemptive attack.
Lower ball condition(Note that these conditions can also work with Higher and Level however it's more consistent with Lower):
So after you've hit Sb/Kb with P you have a couple of options you can do. The first is 6P. Unlike the high and level conditions, when hit the Sb/Kb with 6P the balls will not go in the same direction but instead both will go in different directions. Sb will go about 10 degrees off of Vertical towards Venom while Kb will go towards the enemy. Furthermore, depending on how late you decide to hit this, either both balls will travel at the same speed or the Kb will travel at a much lower speed(P hit speed). There are a few cases however where Sb will travel slow and Kb will travel fast. This is more useful than the one direction because the Kb will keep opponents who haven't already jumped and try to get in from jumping as well as Sb provides some cover Venom. At the worst Venom might get hit and knocked down far reaching air move like Baiken's j.S but it's not too bad for most characters. Venom will have recovered to be able to block anything coming his way as well as the Sb coming back your way will most likely hit the opponent. Furthermore, the condition where Sb travels slow is good as well as your opponent will have to stop their attack string in order to block the ball.
HS is the other followup that you can do. The timing is somewhat strict though. Connecting HS right after P will cause the balls to split and fly at the opponent very quickly. They'll either be still on the ground blocking that or in the air blocking that or eating shit. There's 3 seperate conditions that may happen when you do this.
1. Sb will travel slow downwards and Kb travels fast upwards
2. Sb will travel fast downwards and Kb travels slow upwards
3. Both balls travel fast.
All of these conditions don't really matter since all of them leave you in the advantage position. There's pretty much no way that I can think of for an opponent to get this other than Eddie with his Drunkard Shade and with some sort of projectile so pretty much Venom is safe to summon more balls.
Condition 2: This condition is similar to the first one with the exception that the Sb and Kb are not touching. It's pretty much the same idea as Condition 1 except with minor difference. The first is the 6P will now only change the trajectory of Sb to go upwards while Kb doesn't change direction. S is also now usable. It's basically the same idea as HS except can be done later. To make it angle like HS the balls still have to be somewhat close to eachother. If the balls are in condition 1 the S will whiff. Same principles though. Another thing is if spaced far enough apart S will only hit Sb. This will speed up the Sb. The basic effect of this is that if the opponent jumps to dodge the Sb they'll then have to deal with Kb which most likely if they try super jump or AD, they might fall into Venom's 6P or 6HS.
2P Hit: There's not much to be said here. You basically wait for the balls to set and then you hit them with 2P and then P or the other way around. It'll give a sort of Tiger effect like in Street Fighter depending on how you space them out. You can also this with single balls as well.
2S: Same shit as 2P but faster. Good for forcing the opponent to advance however if close enough they may catch you during the recovery frames.
HS Hit: Fast balls going at the opponent. Good to change it up if you're mainly using slow balls.
K Hit: Good for forcing opponent to either block or dodge. Fast recovery so you can P the Kb afterwards therefore making it tough for those looking to airdash in and punish you. Probably a much better choice in using this than S Hit.
Angle ball condition
K Hit: basic split. Not much to be said. Good zoning tool.
S Hit: Faster version of K hit. Does more damage on connect.
2P Hit: Creates a slow split. Very good for space control. Can followup with Stinger Aim for 3 balls or summon another Pb or Sb to further force the opponent to block. Repeat and it'll make it very hard for the opponent to try and get in. After the 3rd ball summon you then have alot of options and have enough time to summon another set of two or 3 balls. Should be noted that this is better than the Kb>Pb>P>Pb formation because the balls are spaced closer together making it tougher for the opponent to break through and gives you more time to summon more balls.
K ball>P ball
Usage: This formation is essentially the same as Kb>Sb however is more focused on angles.
P Hit: Will create an angle similar to the 2P Hit of Kb>Sb formation. Angle is not as evenly divided as the other one. Can be followed up with another Pb summon.
K Hit: faster version of P hit. Similar to K hit of other Kb>Sb
S Hit: Similar to Kb>Sb formation.
HS hit: Fastest of all the hits. Does a straight line with both balls.
S ball> P ball
Usage: Essential the same as Kb>Pb but the Sb bounces at a lower angle.
P hit: If hit early enough, only the Pb will hit and the Sb will remain. useful for using as a shield for going in as well as the Sb there helps with either retreating or pressure. If not, Sb will create nice angle low to the ground while Pb will cover mid-high screen.
K hit: faster version of P hit with pretty much the same conditions and effects.
S hit: will send both balls straight. Pb will be a small distance behind Sb.
HS hit: Faster version of K hit
HS ball>P ball
Usage: Since the distance between the two balls is a bit greater, the Pb won't hit HSb right away. This formation has it's uses like when you want a late split. Pb provides coverage for those jumping in since it goes in a straight line until it connects with HSb. Should be noted that Venom should hit the balls before they completely go into formation or else split won't connect.
P Hit: Like I mentioned. connects with HSb late for late split. Provides air coverage for those trying to AD in.
K Hit: Faster version of P hit.
HS ball>K ball
Usage: Best usage is probably to control space. Not that useful but good if your opponent is turtling.
2P Hit: Probably the best option for this formation. Basically what you do is hit the HSb and afterwards you have alot of options to pick from. You can either do j.P to zone out the opponent(note this can be done in the reverse) or j.S which will connect HSb and Kb in a low split. You can also use j.K but it's not as good. Another good option is to use j.HS. This will create a fast upward split depending on how early you j.HS(note, it doesn't have to split with HSb in order for it to potential catch the opponent in the air) that will catch your opponent if they try to IAD in or jump. All of these can be airdashed afterwards but j.HS is the hardest I find.
K Hit: Another good option to use with this formation. Same as the 2P but faster. Advisable to use to force the opponent to make a move. recovery is fast enough to possibly punish the opponent for dashing in. Low enough that 6Ps won't be able to dodge.
More formations to come!!!