FRC on Pad

[Grey]

So right now, I'm FRCing (or at least trying to) by pressing square, X and circle simultaneously, but this is such a pain because I got to shift my hand a little bit (to perform FRC and to return to its normal stance) and my thumb sometimes touches triangle as well so even if I hit the FRC I just end up doing Slash which defeats the purpose of FRCing in the first place.

So is there any easier way to FRC or is it just practice practice practice?

[Abominable K]

You can map "PKS" to one of the shoulder buttons. It might put you in IK Mode accidentally if you try to FRC a HS attack though.

[Digital Watches]

Also note that the PKS macro:
-Will have a slight delay
-Cannot FRC Johnny's KJ transport or DB transport
-May be banned in some tournaments.

I've heard numerous solutions to FRCing on pad, including:
-Just learn to thumb three buttons consistently. Practice makes... well, not perfect, you're still trying to jam your thumb over 3 buttons, which will inevitably always be hard unless you have weirdly shaped and unusually large thumbs, but better, certainly.
-Map FD (PK) instead and FRC with 1 button plus FD macro (Probably still has a delay, but solves the IK problem and the JO problem)
-Map your HS or some other button to a shoulder button, so you only have to hit two buttons with your thumb.
-Play with dust and maybe respect mapped to L triggers rather than R, and play on the pad stick-style (IE with one hand flipped over and hitting buttons with your fingers.

My solution?

Get a stick. I used to play on pad, and actually adamantly defended it, but I'll admit that I was a complete idiot for doing so. Seriously, while it takes a bit to get used to a stick, it's just better in every conceivable way (Well, except ease of transportation).

[VR-Raiden]

Easiest way for me is press X+Circle+Triangle. Your thumb is already in a somewhat vertical position so I think it's easier than trying to use Square+X+Circle.

Once you get it down, it's not hard to hit three buttons with your thumb.

Though I will admit, it is much harder to FRC moves with very early FRC points (like Sol's air BR) than it should be.

[RNRR]

The only attack I can't FRC with just my thumb is the HS FRC with Robo-ky

Uhh....

Yeah.

Thumb-FRC is actually easier to time with (girlfriend, baiken's j.D, rensengeki, s. carcass, kokonut, the list goes on!)

[DarkWarrior]

Easiest way to FRC with a pad: Slash/HS/Dust (Triangle, Circle, L1)

[Digital Watches]

Easiest way to FRC with a pad: Slash/HS/Dust (Triangle, Circle, L1)

Um. This does not work. You can't frc with dust.

[Grey]

Easiest way for me is press X+Circle+Triangle. Your thumb is already in a somewhat vertical position so I think it's easier than trying to use Square+X+Circle.

Once you get it down, it's not hard to hit three buttons with your thumb.

Though I will admit, it is much harder to FRC moves with very early FRC points (like Sol's air BR) than it should be.

Thanks for the replies. I'll likely try ^ this because I don't want to rely on button mapping because of tournaments and I'm too cheap to get a stick... yet!

[rtl42]

button mapping is never banned, but button "macros" might be. big difference.

[tolore]

circle, X, triangle is what I do.

[qwerty]

i do it with triangle + square + x.

but seriously, get a stick dude. playing on pad (especially dualshocks, which have pressure sensitive face buttons) is just an unnecessary pain in the ass. i'm saving up for a multi-console stick mod, so hopefully i'll be able to ditch pad playing altogether soon.

[VR-Raiden]

but seriously, get a stick dude. playing on pad (especially dualshocks, which have pressure sensitive face buttons) is just an unnecessary pain in the ass.
Maybe it's a pain for you, but I'm just fine using pad (dualshock, specifically).

I understand stick is apparently so much better, but I wouldn't know how much cause I have yet to learn it. Maybe I will someday, when I feel like buying one.

I'll just state one advantage, in my experience, for the sake of the pad. I have consistently seen sticks end up with unresponsive buttons one time or another (in the middle of a match). Could be that I just play with and see people with bad sticks...but that's not likely. Maybe it's worth the maintenance, but I'll just say I have never had this problem using a pad.

[TheSlyMoogle]

When I played on pad I would just press my thumb over all 4 buttons very quickly and I would say 1 out of every 100 RC or FRCs would cause me to go into IK mode.

I basically only switched from pad to stick because we started traveling to the arcade in TN with AC and BB all day on stick. So had to make the change to stick for the awesome that is arcade competition and shit.

[qwerty]

Maybe it's a pain for you, but I'm just fine using pad (dualshock, specifically).

I understand stick is apparently so much better, but I wouldn't know how much cause I have yet to learn it. Maybe I will someday, when I feel like buying one.

i don't doubt that some people can play just fine on pad, but the fact remains that guilty gear (and all arcade fighters, at that) are designed to be played on a stick.

i can manage to do 1 frame FRC's on pad and such, but that still doesn't make the fact that i play on pad any more justifiable. that being said though, sega saturn pads kick ass for any fighter and is the best alternative to a stick (if you seriously just can't learn it for whatever reason [though not to insinuate that that is the case]).


I'll just state one advantage, in my experience, for the sake of the pad. I have consistently seen sticks end up with unresponsive buttons one time or another (in the middle of a match). Could be that I just play with and see people with bad sticks...but that's not likely. Maybe it's worth the maintenance, but I'll just say I have never had this problem using a pad.

you should take into account that there's tons of different button types out there. not even speaking in terms of happ/sanwa/seimitsu, but even buttons made by the same manufacturer are not created equal. off the top of my head, i can tell you that sanwa osbf-30rg's will last considerably longer than standard osbf-30's, even though they are identical in terms of feel and response.

but also, people are usually far more rough on sticks than they are on pads. the amount of distance your thumb travels pressing a button on a pad is considerably less than the distance your fingers travel to press buttons on a stick, so you usually don't push your thumb down as quickly (or as hard) on pad buttons as stick players are to their buttons.

still, if pad works for you, power to you. but even as a pad player, i will easily concede that sticks >>>> pads for fighters.

[Mooshi-Q]

button mapping is never banned, but button "macros" might be. big difference.
Now I'm confused. I thought they were the same thing. Someone enlighten me.

[qwerty]

Now I'm confused. I thought they were the same thing. Someone enlighten me.

button mapping = changing the control scheme. so if you want triangle to be heavy slash and circle to be kick, you can do that.

macros = one button mapped to more than one input, ie: setting L2 to P+K+S. that effectively makes L2 an FRC button.

[Kyle]

we called this "Man it up". playing default Pad config. lol. good memories. I did this for about 6 months before I started really playing on stick. =P

[MetaKnight0]

I've always done P+K+HS with HS mapped to R1 and D mapped to R2. I've never had input related trouble with any FRC in the game.

I would say mapping at least one of the face buttons to the shoulders is invaluable for pad players. Stick is a step above pad, but IMO it's not necessary unless you play a character that demands a high level of execution, like I-No.

[RNRR]

I use my forehead.

I karate-chop for EX Focus on SF4... I think we're a little special-ed.

edit: does anyone have any experience trying to play with the claw setup on pad? I know that's the only way I played Tekken and VF, but it's not working out for me on GG :S

[excelence]

no, the claw setup works because on Tekken/VF is 4 button fighting game, but on GG, u'll lose grip :v:

[its iaijutsu]

I play pad and I used to have L1 as an frc button..recently I've just been using my thumb to hit PKHS because that's the only way to do dbt frc with jo who is my main. I've also noticed that since doing this my frc's come out a lot better and I have been hitting ones that I was having more trouble with more consistently. I remember playing stick at the arcades when I was younger but I've never really been good with sticks. I feel a lot more comfortable with a pad so I know how some people feel. It might take some getting used to but this method works very well. I even play against people that play stick and as far as I can tell it hasn't hindered my play at all. But that's another story all together...haha

[Jet Set Dizzy]

Day 1 of playing stick I was already playing better, shaking stuns way faster, and getting inputs way more reliable.

[thegame4ever]

Switched to stick, everything in my play got better. Buy yourself a stick and learn. Else how'll you play in SBO someday?

[TittyFOFO]

Shut the fuck up already. This isn't the "should I buy a stick" thread, so if you don't have anything constructive to add to the subject at hand then keep it to yourself.

At any rate, I use the triangle+circle+X method that was previously mentioned. Your right thumb is already kinda aligned to the outside 3 face buttons, so that's the easiest way to do it without getting accidental IK activations IMO.

[Ikagi-chan]

I play Guilty Gear on a Sega Saturn gamepad, so I've got a somewhat wonky layout for playing the game. The Saturn pad's face button layout is

X Y Z
A B C

and I have my Guilty Gear controls set so that it resembles the arcade layout.

K S HS
P -- D

I have really small girl sized hands, so trying to hit three buttons with my thumb is nigh impossible for Roman Cancels, let alone Force Roman Cancels. As such, I do what Digital Watches suggested earlier in this thread and I set the right shoulder button on my Sega Saturn pad to macro P+K and I press it alone for Faultless Defense or press P or D along with it for Roman Cancels and Bursts respectively. And from what I've noticed, there's no delay. I can FRC Gunflame all day with that method of FRCing.

When I play on a DualShock 2 though, I use yet another wonky control setup which is reminiscent of the default control scheme in Guilty Gear X: Advance Edition.

L1 = Punch
X = Kick
Circle = Slash
R1 = Heavy Slash
R2 = Dust

I simply press X+Circle+R1 to RC my attacks just like I do when playing GGXAE on the road. Ah, good times.

[feri]

I've always had it macro'd.
So is FRC'ing really banned sometimes and where? That would amuse me if it was.
I kinda reckon (using the event announcements as a reference) that a macro for frc would most likely be banned by someone who wasn't involved in the community/played the game.

[FleetingPenguin]

Can someone explain the deal with delay and mapping to shoulder buttons? I have an FRC macro mapped to L1. If there is delay, is it random or consistent? If it's consistent, there should really be no problem, right, because the timing will always be the same?

[Darcius]

Do you have a "macro" or is it "Keybound"?

[FleetingPenguin]

On the controls screen, P+K+S is set to L1.

[excelence]

IIRC macroing the P+K+S will give a slight consistent delay (yes, the timming will always be the same) than trying to FRC using manual pressing, so the timing will be slightly different between manual and macro input

[solidshake]

wow, i never knew there was a delay on the macro. anyone know why that is exactly (hardware or software limitation)?

i just started using stick for GG this week (after 8 years of using pad :() and all of my FRC timing is totally off now, so this is good to know

[Kyoku]

I've been playing on pad since X2 came out on the PS2. For the longest time I used R2 as a macro until I started going to more tournaments, most of which at the time wouldn't allow FRC macros. During #R I began using the thumb on square, X, and O. For me, I tend to have my thumb rest on square/X (kick/punch.)
A lot of people encourage stick play over pad play at times, but I don't necessarily agree. The only slight issue with pad is the difficulty of shaking dizzy. This can possibly solved by turning on the analogue stick and using that when dizzied. Or you could just not get dizzied :O Eddie and May can get you easy, but its not like you really have time to shake that anyways.
I think if someone is comfortable playing on pad, they should stick to it. Hell, I can use a stick, but I still prefer playing on pad.

[Shining Aquas]

Wait, do they currently allow FRC macros in tournies? I was under the impression that it was always banned

[Osuna]

Wait, do they currently allow FRC macros in tournies? I was under the impression that it was always bannedThe only tournament I've attended that didn't allow it was staffed and played primarily by people who had never played the game before at the time.

So at least in my experience, it is allowed.

[qwerty]

when i played on pad i never used a macro, and my pad had three broken buttons (right on the dpad, triangle and r1!)

[bucklemyshoe]

Playing on pad can hinder your performance and eventually you'll notice it. (IE when you get a throw break and both go for an immediate 2k but you lose out simply cause you had to slide your thumb but they only had to press a button.)

However it all comes to preference. There are some things that are just not possible on pad. For instance I can't FRC I-No's Throw into a P-Dive on pad because the FRC negative edges the 236 into a S-Dive instead.

5K HCL AIRDASH is 1 step away from impossible on pad.

However despite being able to play I-No on stick, 5K HCL and all, I still prefer pad and can hit my FRC's about 90% of the time.

[Digital Watches]

Cool story bro.

[10stars]

Being a pad johnny player hasn't held me back at all, Buckle. I'm sure A3religion would agree with me, as he's another excellent pad JO.

[ril213]

former pad player here but went to stick, despite this though. if u can manage on pad nd hav a solid gameplay style. then its no problem.

[DonPatch]

only reason I could ever really see me switching to stick is to play in SBO or something. pad just feels so much more comfortable to me. while I agree the buttons are better on a stick, I have no issues FRCing when I want to (though I may just have weird thumbs). I even took the time one day and got where I can nail i-no's HCL FRC airdash most of the time, and didn't feel as though pad hindered my ability to do that much, if any. also, movement on stick has always felt really awkward and clumsy to me since it's a larger wrist motion as opposed to a simple slide of the thumb a few centimeters. after working with it more it felt a little easier gradually, but the pad just has a nice natural feel for movement and inputs to me.

one additional note, I've noticed that when mashing staggers, sticks are insanely loud, so while I may not be able to mash out as well on a pad, your stick is literally telling me whether I should go for another hit while you're staggered or wait till you mash out and throw for a new combo. I'm sure trying this in a noisy arcade would be an entirely different story, but I love doing that to people when I go play at residences and such.

[henfrerield]

I tried once with 40 grit and it did not remove the stuff any faster than with 60. There is a good video on how to do this on Youtube.

One trick: If the rubber it too soft and wants to crumble rather than shave off, try freezing the pad first.

[Izanagi SOL777]

Only Guilty Gear game I can play currently is on the PSP , so the controls are a bit buttery but I managed I guess.

[Shining Aquas]

So I've been informed that PKS Macro has a slight delay on it. I don't notice too much since I was doing it before I even knew it was there.
About how long is said delay (frame wise)?

[Digital Watches]

I don't know if there's exact data on it, but from having tried it before I switched to stick, I'd say it's about 2-4 frames.

[MissedFRC]

It's nothing you can't adjust to easily, really.

[Oiboi]

So I've been informed that PKS Macro has a slight delay on it. I don't notice too much since I was doing it before I even knew it was there.
About how long is said delay (frame wise)?

Yeah shining, the macro is no good.

You all are making this out to be way harder than it really is. Or maybe my thumb is just big, whatever. I do X+Circle+Triangle and I've been playing GG for years.

Whether to play pad or stick comes down to how you want to play, and also which character. Many Zappa players prefer pad because having the dog on a trigger is easier, and most of his FRC's aren't ridiculously hard or fast timing (except for ghost and sword FRCs, which can be tricky depending on situation). So Pad FRC'ing is totally fine for him.

But I can get any FRC in GG, if I know it/practice it. A stick isn't necessary and it isn't going to necessarily make it easier to play or FRC, but for most people it is. Try out both and decide for yourself.