[CS] Hakumen Damage and Proration Data

[Spark]

Black = Same as in CT
Blue = Different/new proration or damage, not whether the properties changed.

Note: Percentages maybe off by +1/-1 due to rounding.

Hakumen's Character Combo rate is still 80%.

Move....|Damage|Initial Proration|General Proration
5A........|180.....|80%...............|95%
2A........|160.....|80%...............|90%
6A........|620.....|85%...............|85%
j.A........|220.....|80%...............|85%
j.2A......|980.....|80%...............|75% // Same as CT j.2C, just new command

5B........|620.....|90%...............|92%
6B(Hit 1)|290....|100%..............|90%
6B(Hit 2)|290....|100%..............|90% // The general proration is ignored if 6B(Hit 1) hit and 6B(Hit 2) is comboed after.
2B........|600.....|80%...............|88%
j.B........|590.....|90%...............|89%

5C........|1110....|85%...............|92%
2C........|1030....|80%...............|87%
3C........|1200....|100%..............|60%
4C........|600......|60%...............|89%
6C(none)|1440...|100%..............|92%
6C(partial)|1740.|100%..............|92% // Same as CT mid charge 6C
6C(full)..|2140....|100%..............|92%
j.C........|980.....|100%..............|56%
j.2C......|1070....|85%...............|87% // Same as CT j.C, just new command

5D........|1700....|100%.............|77%
2D........|1020....|100%.............|60%
6D........|0.........|100%.............|70%
j.D........|1610....|100%.............|60%

5/6BC....|1600....|100%.............|60%
4BC.......|1800....|100%.............|66%*100% // First hit is 500 DMG, 2nd hit is 1300DMG
j.BC.......|1500....|100%.............|84%*60%

214A......|560.....|100%.............|89% // Same as CT 236A, just new command
623AA....|860.....|90%...............|85%
214B(Hit 1)|830...|90%..............|120%
214B(Hit 2)|860...|90%..............|78%
41236C(Hit 1)|2430|90%............|80%
41236C(Hit 2)|550|90%..............|94%
j.214B....|1250....|90%..............|92%
j.214C....|2200....|80%..............|90%

632146C(1st)|4000|100%...........|60%
632146C(2nd)|1500|100%..........|80%
236236D.|3800....|100%............|40%

Orb.......|800......|85%..............|89% // The Anti projectile orb that is created when a projectile is cut.

If I find out something is wrong I'll edit it later.

[qwerty]

so now hakumen actually lives up to his character design?

[mAc Chaos]

^Which is? Compared to CT Haku anyway...

[rtl42]

i'm stickying this for now (and of course leaving it open for discussion).

[qwerty]

^Which is? Compared to CT Haku anyway...

king of normals, does more damage than the rest of the cast but pays for it.

that's what he was like day 1 in ct, at least.

[Sophisticat]

^ Not to derail the thread further, but I thought he was a "punisher" character? At least insofar that he capitalizes on other's commitments by giving back several times (depending on meter).

More on topic, thanks a lot for the list!

Only thing I think is missing is that 6c has 4 "levels", and only three are present. I'm taking this from memory, so I could be wrong, but I do recall Ryoko posting the damage figures a month or so ago.

[Spark]

Only thing I think is missing is that 6c has 4 "levels", and only three are present. I'm taking this from memory, so I could be wrong, but I do recall Ryoko posting the damage figures a month or so ago.

I think I remember something like that. I dunno I just tested three levels cause that's how many were in CT. It probably doesn't matter, the proration for it will probably be the same as the other levels anyway.

Oh I forgot to check the counter assault proration. I don't know if I'll bother with it.

[rtl42]

...although it would be nice to verify whether there actually ARE 4 levels or not.

[sogos]

I'm assuming initial proratation is when the move is the first hit in the combo and general prorate is when the move is used in the middle of one?

[MisoSowee]

Yes~

also darnit 6b. 110% proration and you can't combo it :[

[Spark]

Yes, the initial proration is only applied at the start of a combo, but the general proration is always applied even at the start.

So the damage calculation on 5A > 5B > 5C would look like:
5A DMG + (Char Pro * 5A Ini pro * 5A Gen Pro * 5B DMG) + (Char Pro * 5A Ini pro * 5A Gen Pro * 5B Gen Pro * 5C DMG) = Total DMG

[Spark]

6B(1) or 6B(2) cannot be RCed. The first hit of Renka has always been 120% as a combo hit, if it were the other way around there would be no reason for people to do 6C(CH) > Renka(1 Hit) > combo as a punisher, they would just start all punishes with Renka(1 Hit) > combo.

Oh I updated the first post with proration data on the Anti-Projectile orb.

[ryokoalways]

Hmm, you are right, I don't know what I was thinking, apologies.

[Spark]

Update: I forgot the data on 623AA.

Also an interesting point. Both hits of 6B actually guard break, but only 1 guard primer will be removed when both hits are blocked.

[MisoSowee]

What would happen if the opponent was on his last guard primer and barrier'd both hits?

[Spark]

Just checked. They lose the same amount of barrier they would lose if they barriered a move that takes 1 primer when they only have 1 primer left. Same with Shippu. Even though it takes away 2 primers normally.

[MisoSowee]

ahh dang. The real bummer is Shippu also falling under that umbrella though :P

Thanks for checking :)
And thanks for the thread~ I can look at frame data without having to run through the zetaboard's muck x_x

[WallJumpMan]

So did Zangetsu (41236C) get a damage nerf?
If so how much?

[BladeOfJustice7]

ZanTestu didn't get any damage nerf, only damage redistribution. Most of the damage is in the first hit which is an over head and barely any damage is dealt in the second hit.

[JackG]

That honestly isn't a big deal, except when you were going for meaty 41236C (1) versus 41236C (2) oki, which is really really rare. The bigger nerf is that you cannot combo [ 41236C > 5C ]x2 anymore, or just into 5C period. Giving that gave you an extra 500-700 damage for free even if you didn't combo out of 5C at all.

[BladeOfJustice7]

Yea, not questioning what your saying, but isn't that just more of 5c's range being nerfed and not zantetsu?

EDIT: A meaty zantetsu wake-up is dumb waste of magatama I mean the move uses up almost as much stars as yukikaze and shippu. And if i remember correctly the combo you stated is still possible in corners anyways no (at least I remember ryoko saying that)?

[A.X.I.S.]

That honestly isn't a big deal, except when you were going for meaty 41236C (1) versus 41236C (2) oki, which is really really rare. The bigger nerf is that you cannot combo [ 41236C > 5C ]x2 anymore, or just into 5C period. Giving that gave you an extra 500-700 damage for free even if you didn't combo out of 5C at all.

even on counter hit?
or are you referring to a grounded opponent.

[WallJumpMan]

so is renka(1)>zantetsu(2)>3c not worth it?
I m starting to think that renka(1)>enma combo is better

[BladeOfJustice7]

I think it depends on the stars you have in total, if the opponent can burst, how much health they have when you begin the combo, and where you are situated. In a corner with the opponent having minimal health along with no way of bursting out of the combo renka(1)>zantetsu is a good idea kill them in one foul swoop.

[SimpleKiss]

I've been able to link 5C after a zantetsu. I think it's a lot more range dependent now (How close you are to your opponent, etc.)

You can link 2C after zantetsu in the corner and pick up a dustloop combo as well.

[A.X.I.S.]

I've been able to link 5C after a zantetsu. I think it's a lot more range dependent now (How close you are to your opponent, etc.)

You can link 2C after zantetsu in the corner and pick up a dustloop combo as well.

pretty sure you could always do that, and if your real close to someone after zantetsu then you can still 2C for it...wonder why i don't see it in haku vids and if he did can someone link it. :vbang:

[SimpleKiss]

pretty sure you could always do that, and if your real close to someone after zantetsu then you can still 2C for it...wonder why i don't see it in haku vids and if he did can someone link it. :vbang:

prolly cuz there's almost always a better option than zantetsu. Need an overhead? TK Tsubaki.

Need a good combo component? Enma.

[Sophisticat]

I think there's better options than a Zan now, so you don't see anyone using it anymore.

Really, the only reason to use Zan in CT is after a renka if you 1) need big damage mid-screen or 2) land a 6c ch (close) in the corner.

Now with CS you just won't see it because you get more with less out of some other options... I do want to get my mits on CS to test out Zan stuff, but that'll have to wait for release.

Regardless, Renka -> Zan -> 3c is terrible and should only be used if you're going for the kill.

[SimpleKiss]

I think there's better options than a Zan now, so you don't see anyone using it anymore.

Really, the only reason to use Zan in CT is after a renka if you 1) need big damage mid-screen or 2) land a 6c ch (close) in the corner.

Now with CS you just won't see it because you get more with less out of some other options... I do want to get my mits on CS to test out Zan stuff, but that'll have to wait for release.

Regardless, Renka -> Zan -> 3c is terrible and should only be used if you're going for the kill.


It's still worth it if Zantetsu will take them to the corner (in which case, it wouldn't be worth it to do enma.) then 2C for launcher combo. Or if you have *lots* of meter to burn you can link 5C into another Zantetsu like posted earlier.

[A.X.I.S.]

prolly cuz there's almost always a better option than zantetsu. Need an overhead? TK Tsubaki.

Need a good combo component? Enma.

in CT i use zantetsu as a long range overhead, it works wonders since people don't realize i do it until its too late...damn i love meaty hits.

now in CS diff story.

[SimpleKiss]

in CT i use zantetsu as a long range overhead, it works wonders since people don't realize i do it until its too late...damn i love meaty hits.

now in CS diff story.

I'd rather do Hop Tsubaki. It's so much faster if you can pull it off.

[CakeWasBannedd]

Quick question for you guys, I'm thinking of subbing Hakumen but there is no combo guide for CS. I understand he's not exactly a combo-centric character, but should I just be copying CT combos or what?

[BladeOfJustice7]

He's more or less the same with ct, just now your combos are slightly extended with using j.c at the end of pretty much every air combo.

[Leonil_Requiem]

I'd rather do Hop Tsubaki. It's so much faster if you can pull it off.


Well, it really depends, Tk-ing tsubaki within the block stun of 5A, 5B (any thing jump cancel able with no mag) is really good for quick over heads. Overheads on landing is good to.