AC: Lockdown and Pressure

[ProfessorTrendy]

I think I've seen somewhere that 6293 input works, and that's what i've been using for the TK bomber.

[Digital Watches]

Yet another fuzzy setup that's incredibly unlikely to hit and usually not worth the meter: c.S, 5H, 6H(RC), FB bomber You can get mad damage off of this if it hits though. The main problem with it is that FB bomber isn't an overhead. I've been trying to get c.S, (JI) 5H, 6H (RC), dj.D/H/K/S/whatever to hit, but with no success so far.

[Digital Watches]

Oh, also: Note for the long range pressure section: The optimal range for zoning with pokes seems to be at about the maximum range of the first hit, the end result being that the second hit will come almost immediately after the first, hitting with the last or last few active frames, and leaving only a ~2F gap (For all pokes except 2H and 2S, there is a 2F gap between the last active frame of the first hit and the first active frame of the second. For 2H and 2S, there is no gap) between the first and second hits. I'm also pretty certain that the very outermost part of some of the pokes aren't hitboxes (and 2S's hitbox is only on about the bottom half of the chain) Obviously, this won't lead to a combo, but it makes it extremely difficult to CH Axl's chains, so against characters like HOS and Slayer, against whom you can win by just keeping them the fuck out, it's good to know this range.

[Sking]

I use the tk bomber not in the middle of a combo but as a start of a combo and believe me is more easy and reliable to do it this way, because after a resen frc or after a 5S© tk bomber is more damaging than using it in the middle or combos besides is more flashy an fancy this way .

[Digital Watches]

I use the tk bomber not in the middle of a combo but as a start of a combo and believe me is more easy and reliable to do it this way, because after a resen frc or after a 5S© tk bomber is more damaging than using it in the middle or combos besides is more flashy an fancy this way .

Well yeah. TK bomber is one of the more damaging Bloop setups... but when are you going to hit with it in the corner? Not that often, that's who.

[Sking]

Well yeah. TK bomber is one of the more damaging Bloop setups... but when are you going to hit with it in the corner? Not that often, that's who.

Well you can hit it more often if you force them to crouch by doing 2K,5S© tk bomber, People tend to stay crouch during a rush

[Digital Watches]

Well you can hit it more often if you force them to crouch by doing 2K,5S© tk bomber, People tend to stay crouch during a rush

Aye, it's a safe bet against people who are slow to react, but it's still 21F startup (4F to jump plus 17 startup frames), so it's easy to get poked out of (Although some of that is covered by the c.S's blockstun.)

[Sking]

Aye, it's a safe bet against people who are slow to react, but it's still 21F startup (4F to jump plus 17 startup frames), so it's easy to get poked out of (Although some of that is covered by the c.S's blockstun.)

I bet that the tk bomber comes out more faster than 21 frames beacuse is not affected by the height requirement law(can any one confirm this)

[Digital Watches]

I bet that the tk bomber comes out more faster than 21 frames beacuse is not affected by the height requirement law(can any one confirm this)

No, it would take even longer than 21 frames if it were.

A perfect TK will start immediately after the jump is off the ground, so I guess I don't know if 4F jump (how long Axl's jump takes) means that he'll be off the ground ON frame 4, or after frame 4. Assuming it's ON frame 4, it would mean that the bomber hits on frame 20.

[Shoto]

A really deep TK Bomber is not that easy to spot as you just don’t picture it as a jump and as it rather seems to come from the side than from above. The real problem is that you will have very seldom get situations in which you can do it without allowing your opponent to escape before that. Actually Only after you hit a TK bomber midscreen or after you ended an combo with 623H, 623H. But in such situations it isn’t that bad an option. Run up in situations where a meaty bomber is an option and players are quite likely to block low: As soon as you run up to much for a well spaced 6H (they know you won’t do it from too near or they will throw you afterwards) they believe you will start with a meaty rush or will even think about throwing you on wakeup. This is the situation you need for a bomber to be successful. This is especially valid in a corner as there you can get damage from nearly every option you have. Should your opponent block it, he’s still cornered and you still have the advantage. Furthermore this gives them one more option to think about. Still this is just one mixup in that situation but if you have that situation it's as valid as all the other.

[Maniak]

It's just really not that great if the apponent has seen it before. I've been poked out of it a couple times, but I completely refused to do it the day Ky 6P-ed me out of it, and puting it in a rushdown, well, FD kills that dream. You can still miss without them FDing if you do it too low on some characters. HOWEVER...when it comes to blockstun traps, well now suddenly TKB becomes very awesome, a 6HS into TKB will hit most people repeatedly cause instinctivly they always believe they can do something like grab or mash on jab

[Digital Watches]

A really deep TK Bomber is not that easy to spot as you just don’t picture it as a jump and as it rather seems to come from the side than from above. The real problem is that you will have very seldom get situations in which you can do it without allowing your opponent to escape before that. Actually Only after you hit a TK bomber midscreen or after you ended an combo with 623H, 623H. But in such situations it isn’t that bad an option.

Run up in situations where a meaty bomber is an option and players are quite likely to block low: As soon as you run up to much for a well spaced 6H (they know you won’t do it from too near or they will throw you afterwards) they believe you will start with a meaty rush or will even think about throwing you on wakeup. This is the situation you need for a bomber to be successful. This is especially valid in a corner as there you can get damage from nearly every option you have. Should your opponent block it, he’s still cornered and you still have the advantage. Furthermore this gives them one more option to think about. Still this is just one mixup in that situation but if you have that situation it's as valid as all the other.

Nah, it can be good in aerial blockstrings too, as Axl can cancel it off of any normal in the air, and can continue an aerial blockstring until he hits the ground and can continue from there, meaning that any aerial blockstring becomes 1-3 hits into high-low-throw mixup with good landing tick throws (usually j.K or j.P), a quick 2K after landing, or bomber. This is also almost completely safe, as it lowers the startup on the bomber, and all of Axl's air normals are lv. 3 except for j.P and j.6P. This can be strong on pressure, as a rensen FRC into IAD is a pretty normal way to continue a blockstring and ramp up the pressure to block high.

[Shoto]

I completely agree^^, but weren't we talking about TK Bombers :P?

[Digital Watches]

I completely agree^^, but weren't we talking about TK Bombers :P?

Oh. Misread. Nevermind.

[Sking]

Tk bomber is a very useful and powerful tool as long as you do it very low to the ground and as a bonus it has frame advantage on block so you can keep rushing or do a second tk bomber(I love doing that ^^)

If you konw that your opponent knows axl's strings and combos they always block low(Always)

so a tk bomber is very useful in this situation.

I don't use it that much beacuse I can only can do a tk bomber from the right side(player 2) but every time I use it is almost sure it's going to hit.

[Digital Watches]

Tk bomber is a very useful and powerful tool as long as you do it very low to the ground and as a bonus it has frame advantage on block so you can keep rushing or do a second tk bomber(I love doing that ^^)

If you konw that your opponent knows axl's strings and combos they always block low(Always)

so a tk bomber is very useful in this situation.

I don't use it that much beacuse I can only can do a tk bomber from the right side(player 2) but every time I use it is almost sure it's going to hit.

Sorry, but to repeat myself yet again: Who are you playing? Any statement like "they always block low" is doomed to prove untrue against a seasoned player who has a decent reaction time and knows that the move isn't invincible, and when it does, you get CH'd into air combo. I'm not saying it doesn't have merit as a move, but you are talking, again, about 0 invulnerability and effectively 20 frames of startup. It's bound to backfire if you do it a lot, or predictably.

[BlackRose]

Hey whats a good follow-up to 6p to keep pressure? Rensen is usually expected. Also, I can now consistently do a Rensen FRC but i never seem to have good opportunities to use it into a combo, any suggeestions?

[Digital Watches]

Hey whats a good follow-up to 6p to keep pressure? Rensen is usually expected.

Also, I can now consistently do a Rensen FRC but i never seem to have good opportunities to use it into a combo, any suggeestions?

6P is JCable, special cancellable, and gatlings into 2D, c.S, and 3P. Do any gatling into more attacks as necessary, or JC it for IAD/TK Bomber/Kokuugeki mixup. I'd say the most generic thing to do is go for c.S, 2D, Rensen (FRC), continue pressure, but any other mixup option works too.

I personally use Rensen FRCs to extend blockstrings more often than I do to get combos, but I play rushdown a lot, so I guess that's a given. Um... Anything into c.S, 2D, or 5H can be followed up with rensen FRC for a combo. You can also do wacky things like 6K (2), 2S (1), 6K (2), Rensen (FRC), combo for a lot less damage (but a very decent amount of guard meter if blocked). Also good is just holding back and fishing with f.S when an opponent is trying to run in, as a CH into stagger is great for a rensen (FRC) combo setup. And don't be afraid to use frame traps like 2P into rensen (FRC), as while it's almost never a combo, people will sometimes stop blocking, assuming that it will combo, and eat the rensen FRC by itself, thus making the combo that follows do more damage.

[Ross]

Always do it into c.s... IMO. I was just fucking around with this shit today.... and you know maybe my opinion doesn't matter as much as mr.DIGIWA but, c.s is also jump cancelable and special cancelable and has hella good gatlings off it (like 5hs) and if you manage to get a ch 6p it's really stupid easy to see the 6p hit, jump cancel the c.s into like j.k, j.d, combo of your choice... or if your sexy just into j.d into combo of your choice.

[Digital Watches]

Always do it into c.s... IMO. I was just fucking around with this shit today.... and you know maybe my opinion doesn't matter as much as mr.DIGIWA but, c.s is also jump cancelable and special cancelable and has hella good gatlings off it (like 5hs) and if you manage to get a ch 6p it's really stupid easy to see the 6p hit, jump cancel the c.s into like j.k, j.d, combo of your choice... or if your sexy just into j.d into combo of your choice.

Aye. I actually agree with you, as I would pretty much never do anything from 6P except for c.S or maybe 3P. However, I wanted to list all the options just to be complete.

[Digital Watches]

This is (mostly) all flash, but it does have some usefulness in that it does decent damage and gets you an airthrow, which makes your Oki stronger, and it only costs 25% meter! On hit, do a basic SCable ground string (I like c.S, 5H) into benten FRC. It allows them to tech, but gives you just enough untech time to run in and space your airthrow well. And I'm DEFINITELY not procrastinating on writing those matchups. DEFINITELY.

[Sking]

Lol !!

DW I got a question for you.

You really love airthrows right??

P.S.: Because I do.

[Digital Watches]

Lol !!

DW I got a question for you.

You really love airthrows right??

P.S.: Because I do.

Yeah, airthrows are cool because it's a cross-guard breaker.

[Sking]

I got a question:

As we know kokku can be use as a cross up move but hit them with that is not at exact science, dashing past your opponent is the most used way to do that but what if you back dash to them??

Playing some matches I after I KD my opponent I do this: foward jumping crossing him when he was getting up, back dash ending just right nex to him and doing a kokku.

After a few more he scream: That shit keeps hits me even if I blocked in the right direction!!

So I'm asking: is this a perfect umblockable or not??

[Digital Watches]

I got a question:

As we know kokku can be use as a cross up move but hit them with that is not at exact science, dashing past your opponent is the most used way to do that but what if you back dash to them??

Playing some matches I after I KD my opponent I do this: foward jumping crossing him when he was getting up, back dash ending just right nex to him and doing a kokku.

After a few more he scream: That shit keeps hits me even if I blocked in the right direction!!

So I'm asking: is this a perfect umblockable or not??

Er... No. This is a pretty standard double-crossup, and people who aren't used to it would have a lot of trouble with it. However, it's nothing like unblockable. The real strength of Kokuu as a crossup (besides being fairly fast) is that it immediately stops airdash momentum on frame 1 of the move, which makes it very hard (for the opponent) to judge which side of them you're on before they have to block.

So not unblockable, but pretty ambiguous.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and I think this belongs in a different thread. I'll move it.