AC: General Strategies and Tactics

[RedBeard]

Erh also, here's a simple way to test the bug(and sorry in advance for posting so much, you can edit down what you think is useful Shoto). Knock down the opponent with 2D, like be right next to them. SJIAD over their head and do a meaty j.S on wakeup. Program the computer to block the wrong way. If you hit him on the first frame, he will block it even though he was blocking in the wrong direction. There are a myriad of other applications of it and a few shootoffs. Like blockstun works similarly in reference to crossups. Simple example is vs. Chipp, have Chipp do his 632146H super and block it normally. No biggie, right? Now try FDing the first hit. Chipp will cross you up even though you were in block stun because FDing makes the anti-crossup programming no longer work.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah. I think I misspoke. While I can never get the computer to block it the wrong way, I see what you're saying. I think what I mean was that it was visually ambiguous by exactly the distance Axl's airdash can travel in one frame. I was hestitant to say one pixel, because it's probably more than that.

[Kobayashi]

where j.H hits in front and Kokuugeki crosses them up behind them.

WHAT.

I knew about the cross-up Kokuugeki at the wall, but I didn't know you could do a j.H before it and not have it cross up. D:

[Shoto]

@ Redbeard: koku throw bait: I think I get it, so you don't want it to hit meaty but a bit later when the opponent is still in the recovery of his HardSlash? I'll try it that way.. (even that I'm still not to confident about it) ..and the 4 frame crossup stuff is news to me either^^.. (as was your tension pulse post which was very helpful, so thanks^^). Where do you come up with this engine stuff? (it for sure wasn't on gamecombos and isn't something you come up simply by playing, do you? [if yes, my respect]).. It would explain a few meetings where I just seemed to block nearly every corssup a Chipp player threw at me..

[Digital Watches]

and how do you connect the 63214S FRC on any other chara than Pot? ..and even for Pot it seems to need quite as specific distance.. I really could connect it only a few times..

I think it's just timing. The end of the FRC window is during the first part of the hit, so it should probably connect with most characters. I'll retest it if you want.

[Shoto]

I think it's just timing. The end of the FRC window is during the first part of the hit, so it should probably connect with most characters. I'll retest it if you want.

No No, I'm pretty sure you're right^^, I fooled around with it in practice yesterday myself.. it really seems to depend on the frame on which you FRC.. guess it's the last of the 3 frames since I find it much easier to let it whiff than to let it hit [the hitting part actually never occured to me before until know that I tried to force it, so thanks for the information^^].. if you do it early it will whiff on every chara, including Pot.. weird stuff, is there anything similar in the Game for other charas?

[RedBeard]

Ah no thanks to me or anything, the stuff I'm posting was figured out by much more clever people than myself. Like I'm pretty sure the meaty crossup stuff was figured out a long time ago by someone on the boards, or the Japanese, or both. As far as tension pulse that was just something I figured out while playing and messing around with IB. I never saw any info on it on the new site but I think Gamecombos had a very vague and basic tension pulse guide, but mostly related to things like FDing, Negative Penalty and ODing reducing your tension pulse for a set period of time instead of actually elaborating on the system :p So that info was around a long time ago but was pretty much never discussed after XX so many new players didn't fully understand it, nor is it written in detail anywhere.

[Digital Watches]

No No, I'm pretty sure you're right^^, I fooled around with it in practice yesterday myself.. it really seems to depend on the frame on which you FRC.. guess it's the last of the 3 frames since I find it much easier to let it whiff than to let it hit [the hitting part actually never occured to me before until know that I tried to force it, so thanks for the information^^].. if you do it early it will whiff on every chara, including Pot.. weird stuff, is there anything similar in the Game for other charas?

Yep! Jam's Sweep FRC hits if you do it late as well. Normally I can't even tell that the animation has started, but sometimes it hits. Go figure.

[Shoto]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean with the first part of your question, so I have to guess^^: If you just wanted to know if you can hit them over and over every time that the tech out of either 6K or 2S or 5P: Clever teching or relying on air block (FD) after the tech should end such games very fast. In some situations when he techs towards you after being hit from 6K he may end up in reach for a 2S, but that is rather specific. Only against Pot you may be able to follow him with your pokes (and minimal position changes) from "tech to tech", but that is due to his huge hitbox and the lacking air dash (nevertheless blocking will again end such games, but will keep him away as well). Normaly their teching shouldn't be a problem except when they happen to end up directly above you. I had this situation Slash a few times, I believe it happened when my opponent teched towards me after being hit by a 2S high up into the air so I wasn't able to follow up with a combo. concerning the hitbox question: If done from quite a distance the worst thing that will happen is a clash (happens for example against some of Jams air normal's and against Pots "Butt Attack"), but if the chara jumping in on you is approximately in range to attack a "standing Axl" you usually get a hit trade. So the strength of Axl Anti Air game is that he can attack them before they come in that reach (plus they have to use FD to block it if airborne) and that you can combo directly from them, but yes, they are no high priority attacks.

[Digital Watches]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean with the first part of your question, so I have to guess^^:

If you just wanted to know if you can hit them over and over every time that the tech out of either 6K or 2S or 5P:

Clever teching or relying on air block (FD) after the tech should end such games very fast.

In some situations when he techs towards you after being hit from 6K he may end up in reach for a 2S, but that is rather specific. Only against Pot you may be able to follow him with your pokes (and minimal position changes) from "tech to tech", but that is due to his huge hitbox and the lacking air dash (nevertheless blocking will again end such games, but will keep him away as well).

Well said. To add to that... It's really a matter of whether they have experience against Axl, and have the meter to fautless. Against a good player who knows what they're doing in the matchup and has any meter at all, you can probably catch them with an actual hit once at most, but it will do a damn good job of keeping them out, as Shoto has already said.

Normaly their teching shouldn't be a problem except when they happen to end up directly above you.

I had this situation Slash a few times, I believe it happened when my opponent teched towards me after being hit by a 2S high up into the air so I wasn't able to follow up with a combo.

Yeah, I don't really know what to say about directly above Axl. I hate that range. If you have the time and meter to spare, and feel like doing something INCREDIBLY wacky and risky, you could try a TK kokuugeki or an HS Raeisageki, or a superjump+airthrow... but really, if they're right above you, I'd get out of that position as fast as possible.

concerning the hitbox question:

If done from quite a distance the worst thing that will happen is a clash (happens for example against some of Jams air normal's and against Pots "Butt Attack"), but if the chara jumping in on you is approximately in range to attack a "standing Axl" you usually get a hit trade.

So the strength of Axl Anti Air game is that he can attack them before they come in that reach (plus they have to use FD to block it if airborne) and that you can combo directly from them, but yes, they are no high priority attacks.

Er... I kind of disagree that clashing is the worst that can happen. The chains hitting twice and seeming to come out/return come faster will make it a lot safer to have the chains out, despite having a hittable box on them (As they've had at least since XX, and that's just the earliest game I've played), a clash or a trade is NOT the worst that can happen. An invincible move or projectile will hit the chains almost every time, sometimes without trading, and sometimes a well-spaced hit of neither category can do the trick as well. While the chains are safer than ever, certain characters make me hesitant to throw them out, as it could end in Axl taking damage or even being knocked down. I'm thinking specifically of Venom and Ky, but there are numerous other examples of situations where it happens a lot.

[RedBeard]

I just airthrow people directly above me, or use counters. Not sure what the problem is. It is a "deadzone" for his long range but it's prime for air throws. Counters are always generally safe anti-airish kind of thing because timing a poke after your active and during your recovery is somewhat risky and a lot of jump types won't allow them to avoid your active counter window and still hit with a poke before they land unless you use a REEEALLLY late j.P or something.

[Digital Watches]

I just airthrow people directly above me, or use counters. Not sure what the problem is. It is a "deadzone" for his long range but it's prime for air throws. Counters are always generally safe anti-airish kind of thing because timing a poke after your active and during your recovery is somewhat risky and a lot of jump types won't allow them to avoid your active counter window and still hit with a poke before they land unless you use a REEEALLLY late j.P or something.

Or an empty jump and a throw/low, taking advantage of tenhouseki's copious recovery. Unless you mean housoubako (which recovers much faster), in which case that's also quite risky, given that the aerial hitbox of the move is quite smaller than in slash, it doesn't stay out for long (which makes it a prime target for a bait and delayed strike) and the air is the only place where the counter is blockable (faultlessable), which may be a safe bet, but could also lead to a sticky situation, especially if playing against someone who knows the matchup and has the meter to spare/knows a gatling/cancel that can beat the counter, since hitting the counter counts a hit as far as cancels are concerned (a fact which many players quickly learn to take advantage of.) I agree with the airthrows though (But suck at actually pulling them off.)

[RedBeard]

Bleh decided to edit this down cause it was messy. I meant Tenhouseki(P). Housoubako doesn't work well as anti-air for what you listed but also because the hitbox will miss a lot of random air crap. Basically when they are right above your head airthrows are the best option, but there are of course ways for them to stop it. The mindgame basically goes: Airthrow>Empty Jump Throw>Counter>Poke>Airthrow Empty Jump Throws are hella ballsy though, and generally aren't seen very often except on a select few characters(like HOS), because Empty Jumps generally put you in bad position. Pokes obviously won't always stop airthrows but they usually can if timed early enough. Also, I don't think Tenhouseki is very easy to punish on reaction. You'd be surprised how many people I catch with 214P->214P when they try to punish me. It comes out fast, stays active for 13F, and has 13F recovery. It's really not TOO laggy. It's also harder in general to punish Tenhouseki in the air than it is on the ground. Lastly it was mostly an option I was listing, not a surefire foolproof solution to your deadzone or anything. But it works wonders on characters like Chipp and Jam who do a lot of hard to punish/block air to ground stuff, and they are too fast to abuse your long range on generally and they have a fairly easy time working their way into your deadzone.

[Shoto]

@ Digital Watches Speaking of 2S only the lower half of the chain seems to be hittable, so high up ion the air there shouldn't be chance to get a limp hit. May be different for 6K or 5P, but these aren't traditional anti airs anyway.. an airborne opponent it is unlikely to put out an attack that will beat the 6K chain.. but yes If been hit out of 5P and other long range pokes like 2H or 2P by a Volcanic Viper a few times. ..and I agree that projectiles are always a problem for your poke game.. as they travel towards you they reach the part where the chains are hittable sooner or later. @ RedBeard Since they usually want to attack you anyway I don't see the chance for an airthrow.. its not like they have to worry much about blocking. Using double jumps / airdashes to delay attacks lets counters whiff and allows instant punishment (without endangering the attacker too much), so Axls catches are not really that unbeatable choice. Don't get me wrong, I don't say that you are totally helpless in that situation, just that it is definitely is a situations which you want to avoid. Your enemy is in a much better position as you are. Especially true for Chipp and Sol from my experience.. against these to I have had this situation quite often and I always found it very hard to handle (and it's not that I did not try to use the stuff you suggested).

[Digital Watches]

I guess you could try IAD back, j.6P/5S if you're feeling lucky/playing someone who doesn't have insane priority on aerials, but mostly yeah, just get out of that range as fast as possible.

[Shoto]

I finally started writing something about Axls defence options.. but I'm not too confident with it and stuffs still missing.. (and I realized how matchup specific his defence really is).. I just had the feeling I finally have to start writing of I will never finish :P so hopefully it will at least get a discussion started^^

[Josh Ballard]

Figured this would be the best thread to mention this... The game doesn't let you perform Rashousen while the opponent is getting up, for obvious reasons. However, you CAN use it during sliding state. So, in the corner, you can perform a small combo such as 5K-5S-5H -> rensen FRC, then immediate 63214S. Wait until near the end of the slide, then use Rashousen and it will hit as a meaty. This is of very limited use, however, since you're better off just going with bomber loops after an FRC, and the combo HAS to be short or else they can tech the slide. It would be freaking unfair against ABA, except she takes too long to get up and it misses. -Josh

[Josh Ballard]

Also, I don't recall seeing anywhere that Faust crouches under Axl Bomber. I think it's only him, too. =/ -Josh

[RedBeard]

I think the wakeup unblockable was brought up previously but I forget where. It does mildly better damage than the standard Rensen followup so I guess it's worth doing if your opponent can't DP through it or punish you for it somehow. It does about 10?ish points extra damage.

[GoodHumor]

I didn't want to start a new thread so I figure I'd just ask here. I only have access to #R at the moment. I have played AC and watched vids on youtube so I know what Axl's got that's new. What stuff can I practice in #R that would carry over or help me in AC? So far I've been practicing: - rensen FRC-K-2S-sj.HS-sj.D - throw-short dash-5K-5P (i've seen the follow-ups in AC so i wanna get this part down first) - TK Bomber (Tsubasa vids on youtube inspired me to get good with this) Thanks for the help.

[Kobayashi]

Rensen FRC, and TK Bomber, by far.

[JEKKI]

Axl Bomber FB: 623D in the air. Adds lots of damage and woohoo. Allows you to use any jump actions you left over after recovery and whatnot.

forgive my scrubness, I havent played GG since the XX Apex days...

but I was playing AC today and noticed the new axl bomber, went home and watched videos on youtube and saw old axl bomber is now force break.

my question is, when you say the move allows any jump actions after recover, you mean like air dash after the attack as I saw in watching match videos, yes?

Do you need to do a jump install during ground combo to pull the air dash off, or will it allow you to do it regardless?

also did they remove the 2H frc? it's not in your list of frc so I would assume so...

thanks!

[Kobayashi]

FB Bomber recovers in the air, so no need to JI. 2H still has its FRC. Doesn't it?

[JEKKI]

ah, thanks you!

I just finished reading all the first faq-ish posts.

* Rensengeki: No longer affects GB+.

* Rashousen: TG 3.0+1.2->1.2. May input Rashousen Feint from 25F->27F.

what does GB+ and TG mean???

[Kobayashi]

Guard Balance (Bar) + Tension Gain