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KLK_Reference

Not going anywhere in P4AU

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I have been playing P4au for quite some time now, but i just don't seem to be getting anywhere. I spend a few hours in training mode every day, i know a fair few combos which i can do pretty consistently but i just can't seem to win at all online (aside from games against complete beginners although those are often a lot closer than i would like to admit). I was also wondering if buying a fight stick would be worth it. I often have problems with the good ol' controller, mostly with IADs and blocking low.

 

I just don't know what to do to get better. Any advice?

 

I play on 360 by the way.

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First, the Xbox 360 controller is not made for FGs, so getting a different one should help you with execution.

 

Now, if the execution isn't your problem, then now you're dealing with the "real problems" in FGs: Neutral game, Pressure (doing it or receiving it), Okizeme, etc. I'm in the same situation, but now that you can do your combo more or less well done, then you have to start thinking in a lot of things that can happen:

 

1. How is usually played my character?

2. How is usually played the opponent's characters?

3. What options has the opponent's character and how my character deals with all of them?

4. How do I teach them to "respect" me?

5. Stay calm all the time.

 

I'm not a good player, so these advices are the only ones I can give you.

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Hi there!

 

Arcade stick is not a necessary investment though you may learn that you play better and feel more comfortable on Arcade stick rather than a standard Xbox pad. It's a matter of preference though. Some people prefer stick while others like pad. 

 

Heavymetalmixer described many possible problems quite well.

 

Now there is one other possible problem I can gather from your post KLK_Reference, Are you spending your time in training mode wisely or are you just practicing the same few combos with not taking into account different situations? There is a major misconception that "The more time you spend in training mode, the more you get better". This is not the case

 

What does matter is the quality of what you learn during your time in training mode. Not the time. Set things on counter-hit, set the opponent to block and practice block strings. Everything you would think to practice. Training mode is a valuable tool as long as you know how to use it.

 

Good luck!

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The above posts are good, but I would just like to add. No one mentioned it but watching videos/replays is a really good way to level up. Watching good players can give you an idea of things you should/shouldn't be doing. It's not enough to just watch though; it helps if you try to understand why good players choose to do X action in A situation. I also feel like it's good to watch your own replays so you can get a sense of what you need to actually improve on. Watching your own matches lets you see what you're getting hit by, or what situations you're really shaky in.

 

I would also implore you to use the recording function in training mode. It's really good. If watched some replays and noticed that you're getting blown up in a specific situation, recreate it with the record feature. You can record a Mitsuru blockstring, for example, and play it back to see if there are any ways your character can deal with it. This goes for anything really: you can experiment with neutral options you find difficult to overcome, setups that seem hard to get out of, etc. It's better than trying to figure out a lot of stuff on the fly during an actual match.

 

Lastly, I would suggest that you try to get familiar with the other characters in the game. While mastering your own character is important it's almost equally important to familiarize yourself with the other characters. Knowing their options is important (like Heavymetalmixer said) but it kinda goes beyond that I feel. It kinda helps to understand the thoughts behind the options, too. I feel like getting intimate with the other characters helps you in this regard. Of course, ultimately, what one does with their character is up to them, but being somewhat familiar with the mindset of playing the character is always good. 

 

Apologies if this post feels all over the place.

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The above posts are good, but I would just like to add. No one mentioned it but watching videos/replays is a really good way to level up. Watching good players can give you an idea of things you should/shouldn't be doing. It's not enough to just watch though; it helps if you try to understand why good players choose to do X action in A situation. I also feel like it's good to watch your own replays so you can get a sense of what you need to actually improve on. Watching your own matches lets you see what you're getting hit by, or what situations you're really shaky in.

 

I would also implore you to use the recording function in training mode. It's really good. If watched some replays and noticed that you're getting blown up in a specific situation, recreate it with the record feature. You can record a Mitsuru blockstring, for example, and play it back to see if there are any ways your character can deal with it. This goes for anything really: you can experiment with neutral options you find difficult to overcome, setups that seem hard to get out of, etc. It's better than trying to figure out a lot of stuff on the fly during an actual match.

 

Lastly, I would suggest that you try to get familiar with the other characters in the game. While mastering your own character is important it's almost equally important to familiarize yourself with the other characters. Knowing their options is important (like Heavymetalmixer said) but it kinda goes beyond that I feel. It kinda helps to understand the thoughts behind the options, too. I feel like getting intimate with the other characters helps you in this regard. Of course, ultimately, what one does with their character is up to them, but being somewhat familiar with the mindset of playing the character is always good. 

 

Apologies if this post feels all over the place.

Nah you pretty much covered it, I feel that what's barring players from /really/ improving (myself included) is the fact that they're "stuck" on only one or two methods to improve, mine being just watching countless match videos and only using Training Mode to practice combos and setups (which IMO is just the bare minimum), when really there's much more that needs to be worked on and studied/practiced.

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Watching replays is invaluable. You learn more from losses than wins.

Also, I really recommend checking out LordKnight's archives, as his old Twitch streams break down how to learn, which is something I think a lot of players (myself included) don't fully grasp. It's relatively easy to say "review replays, find patterns, lab solutions," but even that can be overwhelming. This video talks about using netplay with regard to reaction times, and this video discusses learning MUs and forming assumptions. If you're eating a safe-jump on wake-up every time, that's something you can notice both by reviewing replays and during matches, and then start finding solutioms: varying your tech times (some players auto-pilot, meaning you can catch them whiffing a safe-jump), committing to standblocking on wake-up, etc.

As for combos, make sure you've practised hit-confirming, particularly for your character's most common starter(s). Record your own pressure strings and try to learn what, if any, vulnerabilities they have, both on regular block and on IB. Do they lose to mash? Rolling? Reversals? Can hou space yourself to make certain DPs whiff? Some DPs are much better than others -- start-up and range vary, as well as how easily some can be baited. Narukami's is fast; Yosuke's has a godlike number of active frames; and Shadow Labrys's is actually not bad but has autoguard instead if invuln. If you know where there's a DPable gap in your string, you can then start baiting the DP (hold back) and punish, rather than autopiloting.

tl;dr As was said: it's not the time you spend playing or in the lab, it's what you do with it.

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First, the Xbox 360 controller is not made for FGs, so getting a different one should help you with execution.

Someone forgot to tell that to Grover :lol:

 

Well then, the main issue is that you probably dont "get" how the game works (fundamentals), and so, you can't understand it and get the best out of your character.

Do you have any videos of your fights? That would help us alot to track down your flaws.

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Thanks for all the tips! I have looked into some guides on other characters to get a general idea on what to look out for and i have tried to use the record function to get an idea of some blockstrings.

I went and recorded a few matches vs a friend who is at about the same skill level as i am (i couldn't find anyone else online at the time, being in Australia kinda sucks for fighting games) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-i-YLnsVFQ these are the fights i thought i did the worst in.

Those lordknight videos are also rather interesting, although some of the stuff he talks about goes over my head a bit.

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hate to say this but this game has 1 of the worse input reads of all time both online and offline. can't even switch main's cause of this garbage.

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hate to say this but this game has 1 of the worse input reads of all time both online and offline. can't even switch main's cause of this garbage.

Misinformed: The post.

Sir, please stop just making stuff up when you have no idea what you're talking about. Not for me or anything cause I personally don't care but you're in a newer player board talking nonsense, which doesn't help new players at all. Think before you post.

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Thanks for all the tips! I have looked into some guides on other characters to get a general idea on what to look out for and i have tried to use the record function to get an idea of some blockstrings.

I went and recorded a few matches vs a friend who is at about the same skill level as i am (i couldn't find anyone else online at the time, being in Australia kinda sucks for fighting games) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-i-YLnsVFQ these are the fights i thought i did the worst in.

Those lordknight videos are also rather interesting, although some of the stuff he talks about goes over my head a bit.

 

I would put that video in the Adachi (Or Naoto if you're the Naoto player) critique thread so others can offer their thoughts on your play and how you can improve with the character. 

 

I never posted in critique threads but I do often browse to see if anyone mentions anything interesting and helpful. Also one thing I noticed, a good majority of the people in the critique threads will tell you what you did good in the matches and what you did poorly on (Using unsafe moves, bad spacing, etc).

 

Be sure to check and post on the critique threads if you are looking for input.

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I would put that video in the Adachi (Or Naoto if you're the Naoto player) critique thread so others can offer their thoughts on your play and how you can improve with the character. 

 

I never posted in critique threads but I do often browse to see if anyone mentions anything interesting and helpful. Also one thing I noticed, a good majority of the people in the critique threads will tell you what you did good in the matches and what you did poorly on (Using unsafe moves, bad spacing, etc).

 

Be sure to check and post on the critique threads if you are looking for input.

Silly question here, but what if a character forum doesn't have a critique thread? I main Aigis, and wanna get some feedback on some of my replays, but I checked the subforum and didn't see any. 

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In those cases, you can either

 

1) Ask for critique in the gameplay discussion thread

2) PM the Mod and ask them nicely to make the critique thread

3) Make the Critique thread yourself

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I would consider getting a fightstick. While the original P4A was perfectly playable on pad, I feel like they tightened the inputs on P4U making stick play essential. This is purely anecdotal, unscientific, and I could be totally wrong.

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I would consider getting a fightstick. While the original P4A was perfectly playable on pad, I feel like they tightened the inputs on P4U making stick play essential. This is purely anecdotal, unscientific, and I could be totally wrong.

You don't need a stick to play P4A, but there are a number of known input shortcuts, which may or may not be part of your issue.

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Misinformed: The post.

Sir, please stop just making stuff up when you have no idea what you're talking about. Not for me or anything cause I personally don't care but you're in a newer player board talking nonsense, which doesn't help new players at all. Think before you post.

 

 i'm saying 214214/236236 is a pain in the butt to do in this game no matter what. also don't tell me getting use to will work. it does not do jack crap. other fighters i want to play will negate this. 

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 i'm saying 214214/236236 is a pain in the butt to do in this game no matter what. also don't tell me getting use to will work. it does not do jack crap. other fighters i want to play will negate this. 

 

You need some workout and weed, calm down dude. And is true that this game has worse input detection than P4U1, but is still very good.

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 i'm saying 214214/236236 is a pain in the butt to do in this game no matter what. also don't tell me getting use to will work. it does not do jack crap. other fighters i want to play will negate this. 

I don't know how sloppy your inputs are but this game is VERY lenient with 236 and 214 inputs. Either check out your preferred controller or whatever if its jank, otherwise grind it out they're far from impossible.

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Everybody, chill.

A number of players have had difficulty with 236236 and 214214 inputs. I already linked to the thread discussing that particular issue, solutions, and known shortcuts. I'm not a pad player, so I don't have any first-hand experience with the issue; I have switched from pad to stick, however, and during the transition, execution is a garbled (you'll have to relearn motions and build muscle memory for even basic actions, so during the adjustment phase, you will drop combos you can reliably perform on pad). That being said, there are a number of top players who play on pad (both XBox and DualShock), so playing on stick is not a requirement.

As was noted in the thread on input difficulties, Ultimax has input shortcuts. And they're very real, as I've seen numerous players accidentally perform an IK instead of a super, and I've had issues with supers being performed instead of a special due to my own sloppiness combined with how the game reads inputs. This isn't a new issue, and it's not relevant to the original post.

Thanks for all the tips! I have looked into some guides on other characters to get a general idea on what to look out for and i have tried to use the record function to get an idea of some blockstrings.

Good, that's crucial! Also, don't be afraid to ask your opponent what they did and why if you can't figure it out; there are alwys going to be some sourpusses, but most players are decent people who are happy to help others.

Unfortunately, since I don't know who you play, I can't offer any substantial comments on the video. To borrow from Colpevole, though, whenever you watch a replay, if someone were to pause the match and ask why you hit whatever button you did at that moment, you should be able to give a thoughtful answer. You can do this yourself, in a way: just pause and ask yourself why you did whatever action. If you can't answer the question or the answer is "I mashed because I was panicking," then that's something you should evaluate and/or lab. Maybe you tried to poke out of a pressure string that was designed to bait mashing (you can recreate that in the lab to check), or maybe you DP whenever you're pressured, making the DP easy to bait. If you notice you use something as a crutch (such as Evasive Action or AoA), then try to play without using your "panic" option for a day. I autopilot certain moves and have found that consciously banning them for a session is a good way to break out of a habit.

Those lordknight videos are also rather interesting, although some of the stuff he talks about goes over my head a bit.

If you elaborate, perhaps I or someone else could help. The concepts he talks about are valuable -- such as recognising that out of a character's entire moveset, only one or two moves are likely in a given situation (and then preparing how to deal with or beat those options), noticing that players of the same character tend to do similar things (which is important for learning MUs), etc.

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