Bad Habits

[Hollysmoke]

...I still haven't played the game yet, even though I want to start learning. That's already a bad habit. ._,

 

Playing anything but GG is the worst habit of all

[indie_animator]

Playing anything but GG is the worst habit of all

Heh, nice. The only other games I play currently are P4AU and a little bit of Skullgirls.  It actually raises a good point I've been deciding on for years; how many fighting games, and characters in those games can you handle well at once.  I've tried to limit myself to a main & two subs in most games over the years.  I suppose a bad habit could be overextending yourself by spreading yourself too thin, but it may vary for the individual.

[Hollysmoke]

Heh, nice. The only other games I play currently are P4AU and a little bit of Skullgirls.  It actually raises a good point I've been deciding on for years; how many fighting games, and characters in those games can you handle well at once.  I've tried to limit myself to a main & two subs in most games over the years.  I suppose a bad habit could be overextending yourself by spreading yourself too thin, but it may vary for the individual.

I only play ASW fighters / airdashers so they all tend to have a global feel for me. GG is the only one I take seriously though, since P4U is easy to learn.

[Garalian]

I've got a really bad habit of trying to hammerfall through pressure, despite the fact that it only works like 3/10 times I try it.

Another really bad habit I have (especially with potemkin) is trying to 'get in' if I have a life lead and I start doing the dumbest shit to try and close out the match - one habit I'm on the verge of breaking is using raw ICPM to chase down an opponent, which has almost always resulted in a swift kick in the pants.

[Hollysmoke]

You know what's a good way to break any habit? Put an elastic band on your wrist. Flick it whenever you catch yourself doing it. It's how I got out of the habit of sacrificing virgins for the glory of Satan spamming Bandit Revolver as a block string ender on Sol. Then when you stop playing and you're doing chores or whatever, you see the red marks on your wrist and you question it, reminding yourself "Oh yeah, I did that because of [insert bad habit here]. I should stop that". You subconsciously condition yourself to stop doing that action then. This is just some life advice you can apply to anything really.

[Keo-bas]

that over drive are reversals....

[Hollysmoke]

that over drive are reversals....

 

You mean supers? Some are depending on the character.

[Grimsley-San]

Doing "Rakusyo!" on my opponent on purpose when I feel like it ;P

[president]

1. When picking a main or even a sub. Spend 1 month in training mode. No online matches, no real matches. Understand the characters spacing, speed, and put combo's into muscle memory.

 

I could not disagree any more. Muscle memory can work heavily against you and is the source of most bad habits. I've seen people that approached fighting games like this and then I have to beat them up and tell them to please forget everything they practiced in the last weeks/months and just learn how to use their stuff in neutral instead, because the result of this kind of "learning" are Venoms that can't use their balls outside of combos, Zatos that can't use Eddie outside of combos, Chipps that can't maneuver around the opponent's stuff etc that just fish for their practiced openings they can't ever get.

 

One of the most common bad habits I see, especially online, is what my local scene labels the "BlazBlue airdash". The lazy act of jumping back and airdashing forward as means to approach in neutral, not expecting to get blown up immediately every time in this game.

 

Another one would be the dumb airteching people do. Airteching out of a situation and immediately gravitating towards the opponent with the heaviest button they can find, eating repetitive counterhits or airthrows in the process. We also call this the "BlazBlue airtech".

 

The best solution to not develop bad habits, or get rid of them afterwards, is to get blown up. Zato is really good at making people think about their mistakes. 

 

/Edit: Oh right, as for myself, I'm really good at domi bursting! But it's advanced meta, bursts so bad everybody is forced to laugh and can't punish properly.

[Hollysmoke]

I could not disagree any more. Muscle memory can work heavily against you and is the source of most bad habits. I've seen people that approached fighting games like this and then I have to beat them up and tell them to please forget everything they practiced in the last weeks/months and just learn how to use their stuff in neutral instead, because the result of this kind of "learning" are Venoms that can't use their balls outside of combos, Zatos that can't use Eddie outside of combos, Chipps that can't maneuver around the opponent's stuff etc that just fish for their practiced openings they can't ever get.

 

One of the most common bad habits I see, especially online, is what my local scene labels the "BlazBlue airdash". The lazy act of jumping back and airdashing forward as means to approach in neutral, not expecting to get blown up immediately every time in this game.

 

Another one would be the dumb airteching people do. Airteching out of a situation and immediately gravitating towards the opponent with the heaviest button they can find, eating repetitive counterhits or airthrows in the process. We also call this the "BlazBlue airtech".

 

The best solution to not develop bad habits, or get rid of them afterwards, is to get blown up. Zato is really good at making people think about their mistakes. 

 

/Edit: Oh right, as for myself, I'm really good at domi bursting! But it's advanced meta, bursts so bad everybody is forced to laugh and can't punish properly.

 

I disagree. You SHOULD be training first because you should be understanding your normals and specials on a most fundamental level. Matchmaking doesn't teach you what's safe or unsafe on block, nor does it teach you simple things like what gatlings/cancels into what. Learning how to get an opening is what you feel out when playing against other people, but knowing what to do with that opening is what you practice in training. Learning and practicing more complex mechanics such as Sol's Dustloop or Venom's Ball Formation or I-No's IAD jK link isn't something you'll naturally pick up from matchmaking, especially at a beginner level. Even if you see it and get blown up by it yourself, you won't know how to do them until you feel it out yourself in practice.

[jimmy]

I disagree. You SHOULD be training first because you should be understanding your normals and specials on a most fundamental level. Matchmaking doesn't teach you what's safe or unsafe on block, nor does it teach you simple things like what gatlings/cancels into what. Learning how to get an opening is what you feel out when playing against other people, but knowing what to do with that opening is what you practice in training. Learning and practicing more complex mechanics such as Sol's Dustloop or Venom's Ball Formation or I-No's IAD jK link isn't something you'll naturally pick up from matchmaking, especially at a beginner level. Even if you see it and get blown up by it yourself, you won't know how to do them until you feel it out yourself in practice.

Honestly this is incorrect, yes training mode is a good and simple and stress-free way to learn these things, but it is perfectly possible to learn gatlings/cancels, what's safe/unsafe on block and how to confirm in actual matches, and I think in matches the learning can sometimes stick more since you are forced to implement/try these things in a situation with pressure and an opponent who can react to your actions.

[Hollysmoke]

Honestly this is incorrect, yes training mode is a good and simple and stress-free way to learn these things, but it is perfectly possible to learn gatlings/cancels, what's safe/unsafe on block and how to confirm in actual matches, and I think in matches the learning can sometimes stick more since you are forced to implement/try these things in a situation with pressure and an opponent who can react to your actions.

 

Your average player will not pick up on more intermediate/advanced techniques without practicing in training mode. Not to mention GG tends to have character-specific combos moreso than other games, so it's good to practice certain nuances in training mode otherwise you won't understand WHY something isn't working. The day someone can do I-No's 6FRC6 mechanics in XX without practice/knowing the timing is the day I'll eat my flippy flops. You can learn fundamentals both in training and in matchmaking but that only takes you so far. Grinding out BnBs, character mechanics, etc in training in combination with experience in matchmaking to practice your footsies/offense/defensive play and strategies is how you become a good player. You completely missed the point I was making. Certain players such as LK do almost nothing but training mode so they understand almost everything their character is capable of. Stop telling people not to learn their character properly, it's bad advice.

[MechaBaphomet]

sacrificing virgins for the glory of Satan

I approve of this.

For me when I started out, I was spamming Stun Dipper with Ky.

[Hollysmoke]

I approve of this.

For me when I started out, I was spamming Stun Dipper with Ky.

 

Good habit to get into is practicing what you can low profile with it and getting punishes with it. 

[MechaBaphomet]

Good habit to get into is practicing what you can low profile with it and getting punishes with it.

Yeah, I don't do it anymore, it was just something that really screwed me over when I first started playing. In my head I was thinking (hoping) that they wouldn't expect it or that I could get in using it. Its an amazing move when you know when and where to use it. I think its a problem a lot of people have when they are new to Ky.

[jimmy]

Your average player will not pick up on more intermediate/advanced techniques without practicing in training mode. Not to mention GG tends to have character-specific combos moreso than other games, so it's good to practice certain nuances in training mode otherwise you won't understand WHY something isn't working. The day someone can do I-No's 6FRC6 mechanics in XX without practice/knowing the timing is the day I'll eat my flippy flops. You can learn fundamentals both in training and in matchmaking but that only takes you so far. Grinding out BnBs, character mechanics, etc in training in combination with experience in matchmaking to practice your footsies/offense/defensive play and strategies is how you become a good player. You completely missed the point I was making. Certain players such as LK do almost nothing but training mode so they understand almost everything their character is capable of. Stop telling people not to learn their character properly, it's bad advice.

ouch not sure what part of my response merited such a stern rebuke lol, never said "don't training mode," just that training mode is not as, as you outright stated in your post, the only way to learn things like "understanding your normals and specials on a most fundamental level. ... what's safe or unsafe on block...simple things like what gatlings/cancels into what." If someone was to never enter training mode but played hundreds of matches against opponents of varying skill levels while also thinking about and processing what's going on the screen in a thoughtful manner, they could clearly learn these very basic things you listed, as character mechanics and move functionality do not change between training mode and versus mode...

From my own personal experience I feel I get more knowledge on how to use normals and specials in actual play, in addition to the added benefits of playing against an opponent: the pleasure of competitive play, getting to try moves/techniques in a wide variety of situations, many of which I may not have thought of on my own. Yes, learning difficult/character specific combo timings outside of training mode is rough and probably ineffective for 95% of ppl, but I wasn't responding to these b/c they weren't mentioned until now.

But yes, I totally agree that a combination of training mode and actual match play are the best way to improve yourself; I think you're sleeping on the number of actual games LK plays though lol :MIL:

[Hollysmoke]

ouch not sure what part of my response merited such a stern rebuke lol, never said "don't training mode," just that training mode is not as, as you outright stated in your post, the only way to learn things like "understanding your normals and specials on a most fundamental level. ... what's safe or unsafe on block...simple things like what gatlings/cancels into what." If someone was to never enter training mode but played hundreds of matches against opponents of varying skill levels while also thinking about and processing what's going on the screen in a thoughtful manner, they could clearly learn these very basic things you listed, as character mechanics and move functionality do not change between training mode and versus mode...

From my own personal experience I feel I get more knowledge on how to use normals and specials in actual play, in addition to the added benefits of playing against an opponent: the pleasure of competitive play, getting to try moves/techniques in a wide variety of situations, many of which I may not have thought of on my own. Yes, learning difficult/character specific combo timings outside of training mode is rough and probably ineffective for 95% of ppl, but I wasn't responding to these b/c they weren't mentioned until now.

But yes, I totally agree that a combination of training mode and actual match play are the best way to improve yourself; I think you're sleeping on the number of actual games LK plays though lol :MIL:

Sorry didn't mean to come off so strongly. I've been around for awhile and I've seen people give great advice as well as poor advice. You're right, I worded it poorly. I didn't mean to imply it's the ONLY way, but it definitely is the safest. Being able to press any button you want in training mode is a sandbox method of learning; it's like giving a child a lego set to let them be as creative as they want. Going into matchmaking would be the equivalent of using the lego manuals; now you have to play in accordance to a specific gameplay you dictate with respect to your match-up. The bad habits are the equivalent of stepping on a lego block. The pain teaches you. Three and oh on the Lego analogies *fist pump*

[president]

Matchmaking doesn't teach you what's safe or unsafe on block, nor does it teach you simple things like what gatlings/cancels into what.

 

I would strongly recommend you think this over. Safety involves more than how +- something is on block. An approach as a whole can be unsafe, you're not gonna figure that out in training mode. I've had my own experiences with execution-obsessed beginners, yeah It's really nice you can do the jumpinstalled HCL FRC airdash link but you're still gonna die for eating that 6P during your lazy approach - once it was clear the player couldn't do what he practiced since forever he then has to backtrack, disregard all his technical stuff and learn how to not kill himself first. What a waste of time spent in training mode.

 

I simply believe training mode is what's supposed to come after matches. You get blown up by something, you take it to practice mode with a goal. "How do I not get my I-No approaches blown up by various anti-airs? Oh, I can use FRC notes on different angles, I can use fortissimo to hard punish any reactions, ..."

[RentalBlackout]

I think the worst habit of mine is auto-piloting. Doing the same pressure strings, playing the neutral the same way in every match up, using the same anti-air all the time, etc. Especially when I'm unfamiliar with a match up or under pressure. Gets me into trouble a lot, as predictability will inevitably get punished by better players.

 

This is one thing I attribute to not enough real matches with different people/characters. Even though you're playing the same character, the players don't necessarily play the same way, or play at the same skill level.

[APinkBuny]

While I can see that some people if they use my step one could gain some serious bad habbit's. If you use training mode the right way you will learn. What I mean by taking the time to learn you character is this.

1. Put BnB's into muscle memory.

2. Learn a few corner combo's, frame traps.

3. Learn the spacing and frame data of your moves.

4. Learn how to start your combo strings.

5. Use the Record mode in training mode and make the character your fighting go into their strings. Learn how to break out of them.

6. Learn with the Record function what moves can beat other's special moves.

7. Learn how to move in Guilty Gear ie. Instant Air Dash, how to Jump...ect

 

Going online with out knowing BnB's, 1 or 2 corner combos', or understanding what your normal's spacing/antiair/frame data will not make a fun experience online. Does it have to be a month? No, but I see to many people that pick a character jump online and then say a character sucks or the game sucks because they have no idea how to play the character or the game. Even if you picked up bad habits this way you'll be better at seeing them in the end. Why would you be better at seeing them?

 

Because you took the time to learn your normal's. So ie. if you keep using 6H and get punished every time then you know that your f.S might be better suited to the task for hitting a far away opponent. Then the person tries f.S the next round and realizes that this is a safer option. How did they come to this conclusion simple they now what their normal's are. They figured it out on the fly and now know not to use 6H so much. They didn't need 20 matches and some one on a mic to tell them because they know their character. 

 

I'm not saying this is fool proof. I'm saying don't go online with a character when you only spent 20 min's in challenge mode got stuck on challenge 10 and jump online.

[rubedo777]

To be honest, I agree with the approach of spending a lot of time in training mode before even attempting your first match. Your gatlings and combos are really important and you can practice them against the maniac cpu. Yes, cpu is not the best way to learn your tactics, but it is a good way to get used to the movement of your character and to be able to punish a moving target with the right combo. Neutral can be somewhat learned while playing cpu, but mostly learned from playing real opponents later on. You never want to have punish opportunities in a real match where you're unable to capitalize, and so I think combos and gatlings are one of the most critical things to be learning first (after you figure out what your moves do and their spacings of course).

 

Today I started learning UNIEL...going to be playing Merkava. I don't know much about the system so I'm reading the wiki to figure that out. Odds are whenever I play my first match(probably a week from now), I won't know how to use the system mechanics well...but that is something you have to get used to while playing opponents/cpu. Right now I'm focussing on safe gatlings, near optimal combos from most useful starters (like low, jump, Merkava's divekick and full screen grab, etc) and some mixups.

[Hollysmoke]

I would strongly recommend you think this over. Safety involves more than how +- something is on block. An approach as a whole can be unsafe, you're not gonna figure that out in training mode. I've had my own experiences with execution-obsessed beginners, yeah It's really nice you can do the jumpinstalled HCL FRC airdash link but you're still gonna die for eating that 6P during your lazy approach - once it was clear the player couldn't do what he practiced since forever he then has to backtrack, disregard all his technical stuff and learn how to not kill himself first. What a waste of time spent in training mode.

 

I simply believe training mode is what's supposed to come after matches. You get blown up by something, you take it to practice mode with a goal. "How do I not get my I-No approaches blown up by various anti-airs? Oh, I can use FRC notes on different angles, I can use fortissimo to hard punish any reactions, ..."

 

With or without training that just comes from natural experience of playing the game. At that point it's not a matter of what you learned, but learning when to use what you learned. That's the second half of learning the game. Did I not mention this? I thought I mentioned this.

[Guilty_X]

Don't tense up when it's the last round and you're both really low health. Lol.

 

Probably the worst habit in GG.

[Dandy Chippu]

I have a really bad habbit of watching eddie/pool balls/I-note/etc. Instead of the character which gets me mixed up a lot.

[Guilty_X]

pool balls

+1 for Pool balls

 

Hate those fuckers.

 

Also playing too close to pot (I don't have Xrd)