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Lelouch84

How to Improve My Execution

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So I've been playing fighting games for several months now and I don't feel like I've made a ton of progress. I know that the main thing holding me back is my ability to perform combos. I find even simple ones oddly difficult. I believe it's because I press buttons rapidly until I see the move come out, then mash the next button, and so forth. My friend only ever hits the button he needs once and he's really solid on his execution. I don't know how I would begin to get some kind of rhythm to my inputs like that. Has anyone had the same problem as me and fixed it? Or can anyone offer some advice as to how I can fix it. General platitudes like, "Just go practice it" aren't helpful here as I don't really know how/what to practice. Anyway thanks for any help you can offer.

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I have a similar problem, and it diminishes somewhat with time, but it's wiser to, yes, go into training mode and practice not mashing. If you can't CONSCIOUSLY not mash, then there's no way you'll ever be able to reflexively not mash.

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When I try to consciously not mash it is hard for me to do even a 4 input combo. with mashing I can sometimes do around 8 to 10 inputs but i'm so inconsistent it's not even close to passable. It's about 1 in 50 attempts that I can really do something of 8 to 10 inputs.

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So I've been playing fighting games for several months now and I don't feel like I've made a ton of progress. I know that the main thing holding me back is my ability to perform combos. I find even simple ones oddly difficult. I believe it's because I press buttons rapidly until I see the move come out, then mash the next button, and so forth. My friend only ever hits the button he needs once and he's really solid on his execution. I don't know how I would begin to get some kind of rhythm to my inputs like that. Has anyone had the same problem as me and fixed it? Or can anyone offer some advice as to how I can fix it. General platitudes like, "Just go practice it" aren't helpful here as I don't really know how/what to practice. Anyway thanks for any help you can offer.

 

Yes, just practice is a general platitude but it is true. What you're looking for is HOW to go about practicing it. First off, make sure your inputs are clean in training mode. QCFs, Z-motions, etc. Try and avoid shortcuts as much as possible because you'll avoid input errors in the future. One thing to consider is that certain inputs in combos are stricter, so you might be able to do a special raw, but can you do it cleanly in a combo? I noticed that Ramlethal is your Xrd main so you'll want to make sure your input are clean for when you want Green or non-green Dauro. The next thing to get a feel for is timing. Using Sol as an example, when you want to dustloop, you can't mash it out; it'll drop. You have to 6P > delay > 5H > cancel into jD as soon as possible. Some combos you might have to delay certain moves, so you'll want to double check that. Also you mention you've been playing FGs for "several months" but you're practicing between 4 games judging by your signature. Roll it back a bit. There's a reason why most people only play 1 or 2 characters in only a couple fighting games; it lets them develop muscle memory for the character they main. So narrow down your range of play. Each character has a different style of play and execution. Chipp and Ramlethal play and execute differently which makes picking up a rhythm more awkward. Some people can, but they've also been playing FGs for years.

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Yes, just practice is a general platitude but it is true. What you're looking for is HOW to go about practicing it. First off, make sure your inputs are clean in training mode. QCFs, Z-motions, etc. Try and avoid shortcuts as much as possible because you'll avoid input errors in the future. One thing to consider is that certain inputs in combos are stricter, so you might be able to do a special raw, but can you do it cleanly in a combo? I noticed that Ramlethal is your Xrd main so you'll want to make sure your input are clean for when you want Green or non-green Dauro. The next thing to get a feel for is timing. Using Sol as an example, when you want to dustloop, you can't mash it out; it'll drop. You have to 6P > delay > 5H > cancel into jD as soon as possible. Some combos you might have to delay certain moves, so you'll want to double check that. Also you mention you've been playing FGs for "several months" but you're practicing between 4 games judging by your signature. Roll it back a bit. There's a reason why most people only play 1 or 2 characters in only a couple fighting games; it lets them develop muscle memory for the character they main. So narrow down your range of play. Each character has a different style of play and execution. Chipp and Ramlethal play and execute differently which makes picking up a rhythm more awkward. Some people can, but they've also been playing FGs for years.

I don't actually practice Guilty Gear or Persona. I don't even practice BlazBlue anymore. I only play UNIEL right now.

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I don't actually practice Guilty Gear or Persona. I don't even practice BlazBlue anymore. I only play UNIEL right now.

 

That's my point; each play games differently and you're not developing a feel for it before you jump to the next. Just like anything else in life, if you have to commit time to get good at something. Do you like UNIEL? Okay, that's fine. Feel out the speed of the game so you don't mash out combos.

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When I try to consciously not mash it is hard for me to do even a 4 input combo. with mashing I can sometimes do around 8 to 10 inputs but i'm so inconsistent it's not even close to passable. It's about 1 in 50 attempts that I can really do something of 8 to 10 inputs.

If "I can't do it right now" is going to stop you from practicing, then save yourself a lot of frustration and get out this hobby now, because you will never get decent at anything.

I don't care if you can't do a TWO hit combo without mashing right now. Go into training mode until you can. Then move up to three. Then four. There is no magic bullet that will make you not do this. You just have to STOP and learn to do it RIGHT.

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If "I can't do it right now" is going to stop you from practicing, then save yourself a lot of frustration and get out this hobby now, because you will never get decent at anything.

I don't care if you can't do a TWO hit combo without mashing right now. Go into training mode until you can. Then move up to three. Then four. There is no magic bullet that will make you not do this. You just have to STOP and learn to do it RIGHT.

 

Harshly spoken, but true; he's just asking HOW to do it right. It took me two weeks of just grinding out IAD jK links for I-No before I started landing them consistently. BB and P4 have buffer input which makes it a lot more forgiving so like I said, pick a game and just feel it out. I've given you plenty of points of observation that can apply to any game you choose to play; whether or not you choose to heed them is your own prerogative. 

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I'm not asking for a magic bullet. Just a little direction. I'm well aware that only practice can fix this, but I was hoping someone had a similar experience and could offer me some tips instead of me just fumbling around endlessly until I figure it out.

 

 

That's my point; each play games differently and you're not developing a feel for it before you jump to the next. Just like anything else in life, if you have to commit time to get good at something. Do you like UNIEL? Okay, that's fine. Feel out the speed of the game so you don't mash out combos.

 

I don't like guilty gear. I just play it if my friends are and I'm chilling in their dorm. No one I know plays Persona and I don't find it that fun. I've moved from BlazBlue to UNIEL because I'm upset with how my main is changing. She's not fun anymore so the game isn't fun.

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Harshly spoken, but true; he's just asking HOW to do it right.

But there ISN'T any "how"; It's like asking "Guys, how do I get better at free throws?"

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I'm not asking for a magic bullet. Just a little direction. I'm well aware that only practice can fix this, but I was hoping someone had a similar experience and could offer me some tips instead of me just fumbling around endlessly until I figure it out.

Push the buttons slower?

I guess the Combo Rule of Thumb might be useful here:

If you did it, but it didn't combo, you did it too slow.

If you did it, but nothing happened at all, you did it too fast (or you screwed up the input, in the case of specials.)

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But there ISN'T any "how"; It's like asking "Guys, how do I get better at free throws?"

 

Learn frame data, know when to punish with throw. He wants to learn something, he's asking how go about doing so.

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I'm not asking for a magic bullet. Just a little direction. I'm well aware that only practice can fix this, but I was hoping someone had a similar experience and could offer me some tips instead of me just fumbling around endlessly until I figure it out.

 

-Rhythem and Timing : Make sure you don't input everything super fast or super slow. Figure out if what you're doing is a chain or a combo. Chains can cancel animations and are easier to combo. Links mean you're linking one animation after another, right as the first one ends; not cancelling the recovery animation. Links will be something you'll have to practice regardless for the timing. You can use audio or animation cues to help learn these.

 

-Execution: Make sure you can input everything cleanly; go to training and just keep doing the motions 10 times over. Look at the input. Is the game shortcutting for you or are you inputing it cleanly? This is important because in some games during a combo there is no input correction or buffering. 

 

-Game knowledge: Know what you can do, when you can do it. Make sure you understand the spacing of your moves when you're using them, and what you can follow up with accordingly. Using Sol as a quick example, If you gunflame from afar and land a hit, you can RC into Bandit Bringer. If you're really close and you do it as oki and land a hit, Bandit Bringer will fly over their heads, but you can do c.S into an air chain instead. You'll mash out a lot less if you're more composed, because there's less guessing and more "okay I know what to do now" and not "Oh shit I landed a hit what do I do WHAT DO I DO?"

 

How people learn things is different for everyone. If you want to develop a physical skill such as execution, you'll have to know what you're trying to execute first. This is just about as much advice as I can give on the subject.

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Hi there. I've got a solution for you, as I went through the same thing recently. My track record for fighting games is a tad longer though, so there may be a difference in learning curve.

 

A lot of the harder combos I've had to learn were done in slow motion, literally. Go into training mode, do the inputs at your own pace. Don't worry about the timing just yet, ignore whether you get the combo right and just MAKE yourself do the inputs CORRECTLY. Making sure you're pressing the right buttons is a must. Because you're probably like me, and combos (for no explicable reason) make you jittery and you go all ADHD with the keys.

 

So as opposed to learning the timing first, you need to learn to be comfortable with inputs first, that way you can actually focus well enough to time the combo. The trick is to teach yourself not to see 4 buttons as 1000 buttons, teach your subconscious not to panic. Cuz if you're like me you are always moving full speed ahead, something that's very hard to change in a player.

 

Start by observing which part of the combo makes you tick. It may be at the third or second hit, maybe even the first. Even if it's just two hits, once you get that part, move at a comfortable pace through the proper motions, ignoring what your character is doing(yes, this will look kind of stupid on the screen but you will be surprised how less panicky you'll be after you try this). Sometimes I've even practiced two hit combos and three hits, because the character was just so weird compared to who I've played before.

 

Always try to make mental corrections on everything you do and push yourself little by little to get more of that second or third part right. You'll likely mess up, but just keep doing the inputs. You are training your muscle memory to slow down and understand the keys properly.

 

FYI, I've used this way of practicing from Blazblue to Guilty Gear to KOFXIII to Arcana Heart, but as someone earlier said, each game is different so your observation needs to be different.

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Learn frame data, know when to punish with throw. He wants to learn something, he's asking how go about doing so.

Neither of which is going to help him with mashing buttons during combos? What does this have to do with...anything?

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Hi there. I've got a solution for you, as I went through the same thing recently. My track record for fighting games is a tad longer though, so there may be a difference in learning curve.

 

A lot of the harder combos I've had to learn were done in slow motion, literally. Go into training mode, do the inputs at your own pace. Don't worry about the timing just yet, ignore whether you get the combo right and just MAKE yourself do the inputs CORRECTLY. Making sure you're pressing the right buttons is a must. Because you're probably like me, and combos (for no explicable reason) make you jittery and you go all ADHD with the keys.

 

So as opposed to learning the timing first, you need to learn to be comfortable with inputs first, that way you can actually focus well enough to time the combo. The trick is to teach yourself not to see 4 buttons as 1000 buttons, teach your subconscious not to panic. Cuz if you're like me you are always moving full speed ahead, something that's very hard to change in a player.

 

Start by observing which part of the combo makes you tick. It may be at the third or second hit, maybe even the first. Even if it's just two hits, once you get that part, move at a comfortable pace through the proper motions, ignoring what your character is doing(yes, this will look kind of stupid on the screen but you will be surprised how less panicky you'll be after you try this). Sometimes I've even practiced two hit combos and three hits, because the character was just so weird compared to who I've played before.

 

Always try to make mental corrections on everything you do and push yourself little by little to get more of that second or third part right. You'll likely mess up, but just keep doing the inputs. You are training your muscle memory to slow down and understand the keys properly.

 

FYI, I've used this way of practicing from Blazblue to Guilty Gear to KOFXIII to Arcana Heart, but as someone earlier said, each game is different so your observation needs to be different.

You are certainly right that I go way too fast for my own good. I like some of your advice and I think it will be helpful. One thing I don't understand though is what you mean by ignoring what my character is doing? are you asking me to close my eyes or something?

 

@Hollysmoke: The difference between links and chains is something I didn't know. That's actually quite helpful. I've decided that I don't care how long it takes I will do the same moves over and over again until I can't possibly mess up, then add one move at a time to the combo until I've got it. I don't mind a huge time investment. I'm just so sick of being frustrated with myself for poor execution and inability to do combos that I'll do anything it takes.

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You are certainly right that I go way too fast for my own good. I like some of your advice and I think it will be helpful. One thing I don't understand though is what you mean by ignoring what my character is doing? are you asking me to close my eyes or something?

Thanks, I just hope it helps.

 

Not quite. If I had to make an example, there was a character who'd shoot ice at you as a follow-up after a spin-kick. But at the time the dummy cpu would fall out of it. I'd still continue the follow-up (which I knew would miss) as practice. I like to call it image training, because it became natural for me to want to see that follow-up when I'm through with the spin-kick.

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Neither of which is going to help him with mashing buttons during combos? What does this have to do with...anything?

 

Nothing. I was just calling out your analogy. You're doing literally what he just asked you NOT to do. 

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You are certainly right that I go way too fast for my own good. I like some of your advice and I think it will be helpful. One thing I don't understand though is what you mean by ignoring what my character is doing? are you asking me to close my eyes or something?

 

@Hollysmoke: The difference between links and chains is something I didn't know. That's actually quite helpful. I've decided that I don't care how long it takes I will do the same moves over and over again until I can't possibly mess up, then add one move at a time to the combo until I've got it. I don't mind a huge time investment. I'm just so sick of being frustrated with myself for poor execution and inability to do combos that I'll do anything it takes.

 

You're welcome. If you have any other questions, feel free to msg me. Just understand that practicing links is quite difficult because it's a very small window of frames to follow up before the opponent techs. You'll have to practice getting the timing of these down until its second nature. Good luck on your endeavours.

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I figured out that I get most frenzied when I'm in the air. If I go to jump cancel something I start mashing. Also, I have tried doing some small combos with my eyes closed to train my body to move at a specific rhythm. It's helping for sure.

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Learn frame data, know when to punish with throw. He wants to learn something, he's asking how go about doing so.

Neither of which is going to help him with mashing buttons during combos? What does this have to do with...anything?

Nothing. I was just calling out your analogy. You're doing literally what he just asked you NOT to do. 

 

 

"Free throws" was a basketball analogy right?  How do you get better at something where there is zero player interaction (they can't interfere with your attempt to make that basket)?  Practice.

 

However, even though what he's trying to learn right now doesn't have the same kind of difficulties, there are things you're overlooking when he puts it into practice.  I don't even mean baiting bursts, or learning to vary block strings.

 

 

Learning to do difficult inputs gets even more difficult when done from neutral situations you didn't practice from.  A basic example is going from block to 6P if you practiced 6P while walking forward.  A more complex example is I-No dashing in, then landing into 2S > 623146K.  Practicing 2S > 632146K is one thing since you can input it as 63[2S]2146K, but if you're doing 665>2S>632146K the input is a lot harder.

 

When you're at the point where you can do stuff in training mode without much trouble, you'll want to start throwing in some vs CPU time.  If you notice that you're flubbing an input under certain circumstances, replicate them in training mode to train that muscle memory too.  Early on you'll need plenty of time with vs CPU to make sure you can do the things you want to do from any position.  Maybe you have trouble doing certain inputs facing left, and while you get it in training mode you can't do them in a match when you don't have enough focus to think about how you're doing the input.

 

 

Anyway, depending on the combo (which also then depends on the matchup within the game), practicing blindfolded can help.  You might have combos that require certain kinds of adjustment based on screen position, character weight, and hitbox, but some aspects of combos will stay the same.  I might have to modify what I do after I-No's HCL 6FRC6 based on the situation each time I do it, but the input for HCL 6FRC6 is going to be the same, and the timing only varies depending on the attack level of the move I chained it from.  It's a decent candidate for practicing blindfolded and it's a pretty ****ing hard string to do.

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From a not so pro perspective:

What really helped me understand not to mash during combos like 2 years ago was BBCSEX Ragna challenges (dunno the number right now), where you need to wait till the opponent drops down again and continue with 6B. After that it really clicked for me and also felt really good to press one button precisely once and continue your combo.

Before that i was playing Lambda and just hammering that D, which worked for her juggle-combos no problem.

 

I know UNIEL has no challenges, but since you own BB, maybe that's an idea to consider to get the feeling for it.

 

The rest of the way i learned with Baiken in +R because she's my favorite charakter, so spending lots of time in training felt more like fun, not work.

E.g. this combo-part:  2K > 6P (wait for the two hits to connect) > 623P to continue.

Before that i was really struggling with DP-motions too, plus doing them at the right time during a combo.

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Doing motions is about taking it slow and committing them to muscle memory. It's easier to do if you VISUALIZE what exactly you want to happen. If you know how the combo looks exactly in your head, play it over and over. It's like learning music lyrics. If you have a song that you know by heart, think about how fun it was to endure that process of actually learning the song. With that mindset, you can learn combos and much more.

Putting everything together requires a quiet, focused mind, motivation, and patience. Frankly with two things I believe that is how you learn games at a fundamental level. But anyway. It's like pieces to a puzzle, in that you take the whole picture (combo), and divide it into fragments (each combo attack or movement). You take each piece and you fit them in one at a time until you know for sure that is how they fit and can recall the exact same, small pieces on a whim.

BEFORE you practice you should always take a few long, deep breaths through your nose and out your mouth. You need the brainpower oxygen provides to put you into the alpha mindset. Try to visualize a bit right after, like what you want to learn from that training session. Count all the small victories, even if it's a tiny one in a sea of failure, it's always better to count your blessings. This also helps with motivation, expanding that inner Fire which will increase your patience and positive outlook on your progress.

Don't forget about dustloop, fear not asking questions.

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From the practice I've done so far, I can feel an improvement. I've been doing some basic combos with my eyes closed and it's helping my rhythm. I've also been playing my friend who is a noob at fighting games and his slow pace of play allows me to consciously relax myself and not mash. This helps me apply some of what I'm teaching myself in actual neutral play. Combo #1 on the Mizumi wiki for Vatista is 5a>5b>2c>5c>j.b>j.c>[8]2a>2b>2c>[2]8b. I have been practicing the first four inputs there and I will not move on until I can do that every single time without so much as a single stray input. Then I'll just keep adding inputs and repeating. I'm really determined to get better. I thought BlazBlue was fun, but UNIEL is even better. I love Vatista despite her being a charge character, and being arguably the most difficult character in the game. She can replace Mu-12 for me as I've stated in other parts of this forum I'm quite upset by the changes for Mu-12 in BBCPE to the point where I no longer want to play her. But I digress. Vatista is really fun and I can say that it's not as boring for me to sit in training mode now. This may be because I feel like I'm accomplishing more than when I was trying to do combos by mashing. I just didn't get anywhere and gave up. Now what I'm doing will bring me to a level where I can execute combos and further my progress as a player.

 

EDIT: I successfully did Vatista's first combo perfectly without mashing. I don't have it mastered, but I won't even consider moving on until I can do it blind. I'm not just going to improve my execution, I'm going to make it top notch. I can already feel my effort paying off, and I'm really happy I put this work in. Also, training mode is way more fun than it's ever been. Not only can I do things in a calm and orderly fashion with less difficulty, but I'm doing it with the most fun character I've ever played.

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Supoose the forum might be fine as it is, and not sure if what Im about to say had already been said, but the best thing to do for me was simply doing challenge modes or practicing combis a lot. I used to be mashy too but I got the job done. I started out with TvC and Mahvel sommaybe thats why. Anyways, at some point, and I didnt even realize it, I just wasn't mashing anymore, I would guess It was when I just got BBCSII on the 3DS (ugh) and literally went into Hazama's challenge mode immediately after the tutorial mode. I still mash stuff like with Eltnum's 22B stuff, but otherwise I would say experience helped me overcome mashing. Learning a lot if characters combos, as I usually do in all games now, also helps you get a feel for how combos generally work in a game, so maybe that's a suggestion as well.

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