[CPEX] Izayoi Combo & Theory Discussion

[Adam0812]

I found out doing 2368 is easier both inputs work fine but you need to time it a bit slower other wise you just cs beta so you would 2368 tiny delay then c

When I do that I get super jump C a lot. The window seems quite small. Need to learn though. Something like 66Jc > 5c > 6a > 236b > RC > 5d > 5c > TK noir > j.abc > j236c > 5c > 623c seems too good not to have in your arsenal

[Blueriku]

When I do that I get super jump C a lot. The window seems quite small. Need to learn though. Something like 66Jc > 5c > 6a > 236b > RC > 5d > 5c > TK noir > j.abc > j236c > 5c > 623c seems too good not to have in your arsenal

I have her TK NM corner combo down its really by feel once your used to TK's I am now trying to get her J.BAC loop down the timing seems different than in 1.1, in 1.1 i have no problem im not sure how to space it maybe delay jb and ja both and follow quick with jc?

[Adam0812]

I have her TK NM corner combo down its really by feel once your used to TK's I am now trying to get her J.BAC loop down the timing seems different than in 1.1, in 1.1 i have no problem im not sure how to space it maybe delay jb and ja both and follow quick with jc?

I'm not bothering with j.BAC loops this time around, doesn't seem worth it. Even top players like chin aren't using them at the arcade, let alone online

[PrettyLady00]

I agree, the jump loops do feel like they have a slightly different timing but I may be cray. Ive gotten more connections with 8236 than the others personally but yeah.

[Justice7541]

I've actually found back jump TK Noir is to be the most consistent on those characters that the regular TK Noir doesn't really work on, i.e. Bang and Carl.  For most other characters, I've found that the easiest way is to just wait till you actually see Izayoi do 5C before inputting the TK Noir, otherwise the startup/hitstop is so long that it kills the input buffer.

[Sashi]

I hold 2 as soon as I press 5C and push it to 9 and hit C again as soon as I see 5C hit. Very consistent for me.

[AshtonDragon]

Been playing around with maximizing corner combos in normal mode. A big part of these came from that combo video posted above, so credit to Absol for that.

 

(NM)2B>5C>236B~214A,2C>5C>623C,5A>5C jc j.236C,623B (2706 dam, +8 stocks)

(NM)2B>5C>236B~214A,5C jc j.236C, dash j.A>j.B(delay)j.C>j.236C,5C>623C (2533 dam, +8 stocks)

(NM)throw>236B~A(cancel),j.236C, dash 5C>623C,5A>623B (2551 dam, +6 stocks)
(NM)throw>236B~A(cancel),5C jc j.236C, dash j.A>j.B(delay)j.C>j.236C, 5B>623B (2526 dam, +6 stocks)

 

Been trying to figure out how to get a 623C ender on the last combo, but even if you adjust it to make a 5C possible at the end (like by removing the early 5C and adding a j.A in the air string), the 623C just doesn't combo. There's probably a way I'm missing, though.

[Adam0812]

Wow it feels way harder to land phorizer after strike fall. Is it possible after any strike fall or only certain combos?

 

so its seems you can only do strike fall > super if you do strike fall above a certain height. from what i've tested i can only get it to work after JBC > JBC > strike fall height. If you do just JBC > JC > strike fall they tech out. This is important as certain corner combos the opponent can tech out is using JBC > JBC air ender. EG 66JB > 5c > 6a > 236cd > 2c > 5c > 2c(1) > 623c > 5c > Jbc > Jbc the oppoent will tech, if you use Jbc > Jc phorizer will miss. In this example do 2c(1) > 623c > SJbc > Jbc > strike fall > super to make it work

[RoanYagyu]

so its seems you can only do strike fall > super if you do strike fall above a certain height. from what i've tested i can only get it to work after JBC > JBC > strike fall height. If you do just JBC > JC > strike fall they tech out. This is important as certain corner combos the opponent can tech out is using JBC > JBC air ender. EG 66JB > 5c > 6a > 236cd > 2c > 5c > 2c(1) > 623c > 5c > Jbc > Jbc the oppoent will tech, if you use Jbc > Jc phorizer will miss. In this example do 2c(1) > 623c > SJbc > Jbc > strike fall > super to make it work

 

If you change the ender to 623C>5B>5C>SJ j.B>j.C>j,C>j.236C~D>236236C phorizer will connect. I cant really say whether the window for super is harder or if they changed the height needed to get it at all but its definitely visually harder to tell if you messed up. In 1.1 during the super flash of phorizer I could usually tell if i had dropped it based off of the height the opponent was at , not this time around. Tho maybe theres something else to look for to help with that? 

 

old midscreen route to get 2C sorta works but feels harder and maybe more char specific tho I havent tested it a lot , prob will tomorrow since i finally get a night off from work. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAdbd55qVk this is a example of it. off of a jB/jC starter you can use your gatlings to dictate whether you side swap or not during 236B>214B and still get the rest of the route. 

[Adam0812]

If you change the ender to 623C>5B>5C>SJ j.B>j.C>j,C>j.236C~D>236236C phorizer will connect. I cant really say whether the window for super is harder or if they changed the height needed to get it at all but its definitely visually harder to tell if you messed up. In 1.1 during the super flash of phorizer I could usually tell if i had dropped it based off of the height the opponent was at , not this time around. Tho maybe theres something else to look for to help with that? 

 

old midscreen route to get 2C sorta works but feels harder and maybe more char specific tho I havent tested it a lot , prob will tomorrow since i finally get a night off from work. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qAdbd55qVk this is a example of it. off of a jB/jC starter you can use your gatlings to dictate whether you side swap or not during 236B>214B and still get the rest of the route. 

 

is that 5c 2c character specific or do you just delay the follow up 236cd?

[RoanYagyu]

is that 5c 2c character specific or do you just delay the follow up 236cd?

both kinda. in 1.0 you had to vary the timing depending on the opponent and it didn't work on everyone i know on azrael it doesn't and made me sad. 1.1 special cancel on 3c made it easier but i think 2.0 astrea launches them lower so that messes with it. I'll test it on everyone tomorrow (@ work now and work all night ughhhh) it was super nice last version tho not entirely sure about it now.

[skd]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtdXxrlJV5c

 

roll tech punishes, a little hard but i believe in you.

[StylisH]

Is 2C still viable on oki?  I haven't seen it used as much as before and I wonder if the way her combos work now contributed to that.....

[C0R]

(NM)throw>236B~A(cancel),5C jc j.236C, dash j.A>j.B(delay)j.C>j.236C, 5B>623B (2526 dam, +6 stocks)

 

Been trying to figure out how to get a 623C ender on the last combo, but even if you adjust it to make a 5C possible at the end (like by removing the early 5C and adding a j.A in the air string), the 623C just doesn't combo. There's probably a way I'm missing, though.

Math time, decay values aren't quite what they were recorded at in 1.1, but it's close enough for theory purposes.

 

5a 623b combos at <660f (-6f hitstun decay): 5a is air untechable for 14 frames, 623b is 9 frames, at -6f hitstun 5a is air untechable for 9 frames, efficiently comboing into 623b as a 9f move.

 

Assuming same combo timer

 

623c is 15f (wiki needs to be updated, I just tested it): at -6f hitstun Izayoi would need a special cancelable normal with effectively 21f of air untechable time.

 

Based on the old frame data, 6a is such a move! With the same startup as 5c, a better hitbox and more untechable time, it should make your combo work.

[Errol]

Have you verified that 5a is air untechable for 14 frames?

 

ED: I say this because tsubaki and rachel's As had their untech time cut from 14F. In fact tsubaki's 5a and 2a went up to lvl 1 from lvl 0, but their untech time went down, from 14 to something else, maybe 12 or 10.

 

In other words, this may be a universal system change which would affect the math here.

[C0R]

It combos into 236c (14f) on air hit so I would assume it's unchanged.

[skd]

It combos into 236c (14f) on air hit so I would assume it's unchanged.

 

236c is now 11f, i believe. 1.1 is 14f :>

 

i can confirm that her 5A's untechable time has been cut, but it's blockstun remains the same. Attack level up i suppose, but i think attack level properties have changed, which would explain things like ragna 5a or jA not comboing as well as it used to.

[C0R]

Hm, ok. We might need to do some system level tests.

Can you confirm 6a's speed? It should still be applicable for original topic.

[Ichipoo]

You guys wouldn't happen to have found routes involving Izayoi's Crush Trigger have you?

[skd]

Hm, ok. We might need to do some system level tests.

Can you confirm 6a's speed? It should still be applicable for original topic.

 

12f

 

You can get crush trigger off air hit 2C 236D 214D on a good amount of the cast, but the proration has kind of gone to crap and it isnt really worth it.

[Rhannmah]

I use crush trigger in corner grab combo in gain art for 3700 dmg and 1 stock

 

throw>CT>2C>delay 236C>valkyrie astraea>2C[1]>3C>236B

[AshtonDragon]

Based on the old frame data, 6a is such a move! With the same startup as 5c, a better hitbox and more untechable time, it should make your combo work.

 

While I'm not sure about what people said above, I can absolutely confirm that you are correct. Normal mode corner combo:

Throw>236B~A(cancel),j.236C, dash j.A>j.A>j.B(slight delay)j.C>j.236C, microdash 6A>623C (2470 dam, +6 stocks)

Slightly less damage, but 6 stocks and 623C ender off corner throw.

 

EDIT: Also can confirm that it's still possible to RC the 623C and tack on 623B~D to get better oki. Can of course add 6D>236236C on too if you really wanted to, but I'm sure there's more optimal combos for damage than this one.

[eQualz]

Izayoi newbie here, though this question is more game mechanic related:

Been trying to figure out how to get her NM ground throw working. After 236A is there a trick to do dash 236A/B without getting her DP out? I got it a couple of time with barrier guarding her dash but the input is pretty hard leading to my execution being very inconsistent.

[Blueriku]

Izayoi newbie here, though this question is more game mechanic related:

Been trying to figure out how to get her NM ground throw working. After 236A is there a trick to do dash 236A/B without getting her DP out? I got it a couple of time with barrier guarding her dash but the input is pretty hard leading to my execution being very inconsistent.

 

If you dash and do any 236 command after wards you have to time it right that you press the corresponding button after. What happens if you do it to fast you'll get 66 23C6 this results in her DP coming out you just need to time it to be 66 236C buffering changed a bit in 2.0 too so it takes a tad bit adjusting. Hope this helps.

[Blueriku]

Ok I see what you are talking about eQualz, i was trying to do the combo myself in training mode and the command reads as 66 236C after I 236 A but my dp comes out, I am not sure why this happens even thought I know its a simple throw combo for 4 stocks it bugs me that im having trouble doing it,

 

sorry for double post >.<