[CPEX] Taokaka Combo Thread

[Hiari]

It's all good Anne. Tao has sorta been an abandoned case ever since 1.1 so it's good that we can work together to get something started.

[Capablanca]

a quick breef for all those having trouble with 7j.236B (ir am i only one who had this trouble lol?)

u must press and hold 7 until the very late animation frames of prevous move
and as soon as tao started jump animation - unput 236

so, just press and hold 7, DONT TAP it as i was trying to do for a long period to make faster execution - i justed ended inconsistenly getting 236, and j2B or jB mostly -____-

[Kirivon]

1.) Hey guys, so I'm having an annoying problem with this particular combo:

 

*any long starter into an air combo* -> 5D~6 -> j.5D~6 -> j.4D~C -> 66 -> j.2D~B -> *truncated*

 

I'm particularly annoyed because sometimes I hit the j.2D~B, sometimes it whiffs. The vids I see of players using this combo seem like they always get this successfully but I'm inconsistent at it for some reason. I've tried a lot of things; altering the delay, the height, etc. I still can't figure out how to get this combo consistently.

 

The only time I get this consistently is when they're already in the corner after the j.4D~C, because I don't actually need to input the 66 and can go straight into j.2D~B.

 

Sample: air hit 6A(2) -> (5C if near ground) -> jfc -> j.5B (2) 5D~6 -> j.5D~6 -> j.4D~C -> 66 -> (corner) j.2D~B -> 6A(2) -> jbc -> j.236BBBBB -> land -> 6C -> 6D~B -> 3C(3)

 

I go into training mode and I get this like, 50% of the time only, which is annoying.

 

I have bad news, good news, and bad news again.

 

Bad news:

 

After j.4D(2) hits you have 33 frames of hitstun remaining. In that time you must:

C cancel: 16 frames

Dash: 5 frames

j.2D: 12 frames.

 

16+5+12 = 33 

 

So basically, the C cancel must happen on the first frame after j.4D(2) connects, the dash must occur on the first frame after C cancel recovery (frame 17 after C cancel startup), and the j.2D~B must start at the first frame after dash (frame 6 after dash startup).

 

Tao's drives have 6f of hitstop, so afaik if you input the C cancel at any point during the hitstop the cancel should occur on the first frame after hitstop (I haven't actually tested that but I'm fairly sure it's the case). BB CP 1.0/1.1 and CPE have a 3f input buffer, so you input dash at frames 15-17 of C cancel, then immediately follow with j.2D~B at frames 4-6 of airdash startup.

 

If you're dropping it, it's most likely that you're inputting j.2D too slowly. The only link really is the C cancel but for most Tao players the timing for dashing after a C cancel should already be there. So it should look like C -> pause -> 663D. If you do 66 -> wait -> 2D it'll be too late and the combo will drop.

 

The bright side is that once you land j.2D~B you have a bit of leeway with when to input 5C (at least 3-4 frames). It's usually best if you delay the 5C as late as possible (down to 1f remaining of hitstun), but you can get away with it if you do it at 2-3f of hitstun remaining.

 

Good news:

This part, even though it sounds ridiculous, isn't actually too bad once you get used to the timing. 

 

Bad news part2:

Even if you land the j.2D~B landing all 5 hits of cat2 or getting 6C to follow up in the corner isn't a guarantee. It's very dependent on the height you picked them up with j.B(2) -> j.4D(2), the distance to the corner, and the character's hitboxes.

 

While it IS definitely the best near-corner air-to-air, AA 6A, or crouch-confirm normal starter route both in terms of damage and oki, I wouldn't stress too much about learning Japan-optimal stuff right away. Just work on it here and there and add it to your game later as the timing becomes more consistent. A simple normal starter crouch confirm  -> 5C -> 6C -> cat3x2 -> 8 -> cat2x5 -> 66 -> sj9 -> j.B -> j.4D(2)~A/C does about 2.5k and is pretty easy on most of the cast. If you're starting from a j.B air-to-air starter you can replace j.4D(2)~C -> 66 -> j.2D~B with j.4(2) ~C -> 66 -> j.B -> j.2D~B. and continue the combo that way. You will have enough hitstun left to connect with 6C. If there's anything added before the j.B, however, the hitstun decay will cause a tech at frame 18 (6C connects at frame 19).

[Zekira Drake]

This part, even though it sounds ridiculous, isn't actually too bad once you get used to the timing.

 

I've actually been getting it a bit more lately, and I also found that, somehow, the height that I land the j.5D in the combo matters a lot and is where most of my consistency lies. I can't really describe in words how I get it, but I just know the height or something.

 

From how you describe it though, I never knew it was precisely frame-tight. It didn't look like that to me and more like my opponent isn't high enough for j.2D to hit on its first active frame.

 

But in any case, yes, I should start learning the easier routes for now as I'll need them in real matches. The 66 j.2D is kinda engraved in my muscle memroy now though, so I might have to kick that habit out first.

 

Not everybody. Robots, Makoto, Tsubaki, Izayoi. For Terumi and Haz, you can just do j.A > j.B(1) > j.2B very easily still, same for the Tsubakis but they're a bit shorter. Also you can totes do j.B(2) on Ragna, just noticed that.

 

Hah, yep, I just found that there are around 4 varying jump loops:

 

1.) j.a j.b(2) j.c - the easiest to pull off and the most basic, almost no timing issues and easily pulled off.

2.) j.a delay j.b(1) j.c - the trickier but straightforward one out of the non-basic loops, relying on the opponent's next standing juggle animation of pulling their head back towards you. Strangely enough, the delay is similar across all characters that need this.

3.) j.a j.b(1) j.c - might catch you offguard because the second hit of j.B won't connect on these characters, but otherwise it's also lenient in the timing. However, this makes it impossible to land j.c as deep as possible.

4.) j.b j.a j.b - this is stupidly insanely difficult that I would throw 10000 yen at someone who can pull this off 100 consecutive times.

5.) rip loop - fuck you plat

[Belphegor]

Hello, first time poster here. Been playing for a little bit, and love Tao. I'm having a bit of trouble with the jump loop (I think). Is the 2b>5b>j.a>jb(1 or 2 depending on char)>jc>5c route a thing? I've seen it in a few tao videos where they don't insert a 5b or 2b>5b before going into a nother rep, but I can't get it for the life of me. Anyone know if it's char specific or if it's just not doable? If it is are there any timing tips I could get? Really wanna start getting proficient with my fav character in this iteration, and its a little frustrating I can't figure these things out myself. Thanks all.

[Anne]

A lot of the issues with "height" are probably more related to untech timing and proration having scaled rather than height. Mostly. Unless you're pulling people from SJ+ height most everything works just fine assuming your combo hasn't scaled super far. Like with 6A > sj.236Bx2 > j.D~6 etc you can fill in a huge amount of stuff from way up there if you want, and it still works assuming the combo isn't scaled super hard. If your combo isn't insanely scaled, airdash j.2D~B isn't hard at all, you just the combo to work. Fun fact about a route like this:

Crouch confirm into corner: 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 236CC > j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C > 66 > j.2D~B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C

This combo gets 3190 and is pretty much the BnB level of easy you're going to get. Here's the hilarious part though, if you leave too long of delays in the earlier parts trying to get things like j.D > j.4D, the j.2D won't connect, but if you do it faster the j.2D is braindead easy. It also affects how easy it is to land 6C after j.236B in longer combos. If you're doing loose confirms (Tao is good at making this happen) you don't have to worry about it as much, but if you want optimization you gotta be mindful of it.

[Anne]

Quick update, turns out I was right about the untech time scaling. If you're launching off 236CC or something around normal jump height, super jump into j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C to eliminate as much delay as possible, and those ocmbos become incredibly simple to do.

Something like the crouching BNB I posted earlier become stupid easy that way.

Also:

6A(2) > j.236Bx2(sj if high up) > j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C > j.662D~B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C is 3227 and consistent. Vs Noel/Arakune/Koko you need to delay the last 6A slightly or they'll be too high, but if you get the muscle memory to do that on everybody it's not a problem. If they're too low fo rj.236B(2), you can do 6A > 5C > sj.236B(1) > rest of combo for 3186.

I will admit certain chars with weird hitboxes you need to lower, but if you're doing most everything right it's usually small adjustments.

[Zekira Drake]

Quick update, turns out I was right about the untech time scaling. If you're launching off 236CC or something around normal jump height, super jump into j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C to eliminate as much delay as possible, and those ocmbos become incredibly simple to do.

 

Well, I certainly never thought of doing this, but now my confidence is boosting back up. Hopefully this works as expected.

 

Thanks for these consistency notes on the air combo in general. Actually, I've been doing j.5B(2) instead of j.236BB, so maybe that's also why I don't get consistently as well.

[Capablanca]

2B > 5B > 5C > 6C > 236CC > j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C > 66 > j.2D~B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C

 

u mean it should connect on each char?

[Anne]

u mean it should connect on each char?

Gotten it to work on everybody I've tried so far, including the ones that are harder to combo in general.

[Myoro]

Did 2B get changed from an S starter? or is this combo just really tight?

[Anne]

2B is an N starter now I believe.

[Myoro]

2B is an N starter now I believe.

 

This numbers among my favorite changes in this edition. I'm guessing 5B is still S though, what with it being faster than her 5A.

[Anne]

This numbers among my favorite changes in this edition. I'm guessing 5B is still S though, what with it being faster than her 5A.

Seems that way. 2B gets you the same combos jump ins give you with better damage sometimes too, it's a really good starter for sure, hence it being the enabler of the long jump loop constantly.

5B gets you *raspberry*

[Anne]

Meterless Corner BnBs so we have them. (If you have meter for supers to kill, it's not hard to stick a drive at the end of most of these and then just do the super):

2A:

2A > 2B > 5B > 3C > 3C(2) > 236A > 5D~6 > j.2D~6 > j.4D(1)~N [1700/13] It works I guess. You can do 3C > 236A~B instead for different oki, and at the end you can do j.4D(2)~6 > stuff > super to tack on damage.

2A > 2B > 5B > 3C > 2B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6B~B > 3C [2315/17] Be point blank and don't do any delays, doesn't work on everybody. Do 6C > 236C~B ender for oki and [2259/16] instead.

N starter(2B, 6B, j.B/C):

Standing:

(2B) > 5B > 3C > 2B > 6A > 6C > 236[C]C > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3053/22] Stupid easy, works on everybody.

(2B) > 5B > 3C > 2B > 5D~C > 66 > j.2D~B > 6A > 6C > 236CC > j.236Bx5 > 6C >6D~B > 3C [3111/24] For characters where landing 2B > 6A is wonky from certain ranges. Works on a lot of chars, doesn't work on some (Kokonoe for sure, needs more testing on others but works on Arakune and the like). Vs some chars charge 236C for an extra 100 damage.

(2B) > 5B > 3C > 2B . 6A > 6C > 214D > j.2D~B > 5C > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 236C [2829/20] For the sake of ideas, here is how you get different enders. I don't like it very much though, miss out on 200-300 damage and 2-4 meter.

Crouching:

(2B) > 5B > 5C > 6C > 236CC > j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C > 66 > j.2D~B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3190/25] Pretty easy and stupid consistent across the cast. works from midscreen going into the corner. You need to delay as little as possible btw, so sj(I prefer neutral jump) off the 236CC to make it require less delay.

(2B) > 5B > 5C > 6C > 236CC > j.D~C > delay > j.2D~A > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3134/24] In case you can't do the other one or the combo timer is being weird here ya go.

Grab:

B+C > j.2D~B > 5C > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3435/26] char specific

B+C > j.236B > j.2D~B > 5C > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3241/24] char specific

B+C > j.236B > j.2D~B > 5C > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 236C~B [3157/23] char specific, different ender for the sake of showing you can do that.

6C:

Throw a party they died. Seriously, just go nuts from 6C > 236CC and you'll probably break 4k meterless. I'd post some things, but every time I go to trainin gmode 6C punishes the numbers keep going up so I really have no actual clue.

[Zekira Drake]

For the corner front grab, I actually most commonly see B+C > j.2D~B > 6A -> etc, which seems to work on almost everyone.

[Anne]

For the corner front grab, I actually most commonly see B+C > j.2D~B > 6A -> etc, which seems to work on almost everyone.

 

The j.2D~B part is finnicky on some chars. You can 6A or 5C, doesn't make a huge difference.

[Zekira Drake]

The j.2D~B part is finnicky on some chars.

 

Wow, really? Never noticed, which characters in particular?

[MikeySupreme]

Midscreen jump cancel OD 

https://youtu.be/warNg2cgD8g

 

 

Not sure what other options you have to get into the loop without using OD cancel and getting shit damage or burning 50. 

 

 

 

[MashThat5A]

digging through all of the 1.0 testing gio and i did, j.2d~b doesn't work on the small characters (plat, carl, etc) don't have a complete list anywhere and i don't own ex to test

[Myoro]

Does Tao have any safejump set-ups off of anything besides jump loop? like off of 3C or j.4D(1)~A oki?

[UmaiCakes]

Encore -> Cat Jump -> j.B/j.C/j.2B is a safejump

 

You can also do Cat Jump off 3C ender but it only safejumps slow DPs like Izayoi and Jin's 623C...

Same for normal jump off j.4D(1)~A

 

 

Crouching:

(2B) > 5B > 5C > 6C > 236CC > j.D~6 > j.4D(2)~C > 66 > j.2D~B > 6A > j.236Bx5 > 6C > 6D~B > 3C [3190/25] Pretty easy and stupid consistent across the cast. works from midscreen going into the corner. You need to delay as little as possible btw, so sj(I prefer neutral jump) off the 236CC to make it require less delay.
 

 

I'm having trouble making this route work off 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C, even doing 236CC super jump, and delaying j.D and 4D as little as possible.  It does work however if there's only 1 normal before the first 6C (2B > 6C, 2C > 6C, etc)

The j.D~C j.2D~A route is super consistent and is only 60 dmg less so its no big deal, though this one is possible further from the corner...

 

 

The j.2D~B part is finnicky on some chars. You can 6A or 5C, doesn't make a huge difference.

 

This drops on Tager because he's too big and it takes longer to reach the ground.  6BC j.2D~A 6A works instead.

Against Carl and Plat its fine but they have to be flush to the corner when you throw them

[Myoro]

Encore -> Cat Jump -> j.B/j.C/j.2B is a safejump

 

You can also do Cat Jump off 3C ender but it only safejumps slow DPs like Izayoi and Jin's 623C...

Same for normal jump off j.4D(1)~A

 

Ah! thanks a ton!! =)

[UmaiCakes]

Yeah I'm still looking for some oki options for 3C ender in particular since that seems to be the most frequent ender you get in the corner.  Also its better to end midscreen combos with 3C as well if you've already used 236C to launch since the SMP on taunt -> 236C Encore prevents Encore from giving you a knockdown. 

 

 

Some ideas I got from watching Matoi for midscreen crouch BnBs (for when you're too far to corner carry for Cat2(5))

 

S starter:

 

2A 2B 5B 5C 6C 236CC delay j.B j.236B(1) j.2D~B 3C  [2055/15]

 

5B 5C 2C 6C 236CC delay j.B j.236B(1) j.2D~B 3C  [2791/20]

 

Also -> (air hit, roll punish) 5B 5C j.B j.D~6 j.B j.236B(3) j.2D~B taunt 236C~B [2287/18]

 

N starter:

 

2B 5B 5C 2C 6C 236CC j.D~6 j.4D(2)~C 66 j.B j.236B(3) j.2D~B delay 3C [2850/22]

[Anne]

 

I'm having trouble making this route work off 2B > 5B > 5C > 6C, even doing 236CC super jump, and delaying j.D and 4D as little as possible.  It does work however if there's only 1 normal before the first 6C (2B > 6C, 2C > 6C, etc)

The j.D~C j.2D~A route is super consistent and is only 60 dmg less so its no big deal, though this one is possible further from the corner...

 

 

This route is hilarious. If you do the drives as fast as possible, you can go a bit too fast and need a tiny delay, but if you push the delay too far it stops working around the wallstick. Like, once I get the "feel" for the timing and heights it's pretty much BnB difficulty and fairly consistent. Most common drops are:

 

At j662.D because: missed the airdash or airdash too late, hit B too early and drive whiffs, opponent is too high and drive whiffs

At j.236Bx5 > 6C: Untech timer goes nuts, they fall out, way too high because a delay was missed somewhere.

 

Considering this is like the optimal way to do basically any air to ground confirm near the corner, I consider it BnB staple to have down. I've seen some routes that use stuff like 66 j.B > j.236Bx2 > j.2D~B and I tested them, turns out in almost any case it gets you less damage and makes the combo tighter.

 

I like 236C ender midscreen btw, it lets you safejump some stuff. Off j.4D(1)~B midscreen there are some cute timings to make mashed stuff whiff or to get ambiguous left right with like j.2B. I've seen the C ender used to get weird antiroll and airdash > safejump type stuff, but it's not very tight and kind of whatever. In the corner I just take 3C ender cause damage and then RPS. You can cat hop the 3C and do airdash or rejump high/low and other cute shit, but you're generally not safe jumping much if you want that damage. Somebody made a video where you can drop after 6C > drive and get a safejump, but you drop like 300-500 damage for it depending on combo, which I don't like. Tao has enough ways to keep guesses going that I feel fine rolling them or just playing it safe then locking them in the corner.