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Kinkuli

[CPEX] Azrael - Gameplay Discussion v.3 (Discuss Videos/Combos/Questions/etc.)

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Hey guys, I need help with Azrael Trial 20 in challenge mode. It's the combo where you need to deal 11,000 damage. I wanna 100% his trials, but I don't know where to start to get that kind of damage. My execution is not very good, so if you have a super advanced combo, I might not be able to do it. I'm also having trouble with his challenge 16. I can't land that jumping C after the rapid cancel air 2C, but I may be able to get that with perseverance. I got the game on Tuesday and I've managed to get all of Azrael's done except those two.

 

Also, I have a more actual game related question. What are the setups to get into his Valiant Charger now? I played CP and the setups used to be to RC his TLC, dash and tiger knee his Valiant (this was at midscreen). That no longer works because TLC knocks down. Then, in the corner, I used to get 5B>2C>2B>TL>Valiant Charger. However, 2C now recovers too slow to land the 2B, so I dont know how to go into Valiant charger. What are the new ways people use to land that. I literally only play Azrael because Valiant Charger combos are the most hype thing in the world, so I just want ways to land it practically.

 

I hope this is the right thread to ask. If it's not, I apologize.

Well for challenge 16 you kinda just have to grind it out. Make sure you are doing high jump B for this combo. As soon as your j.2C hits, rapid immediately and hit C.

 

Challenge 20 is not extremely difficult, but it can be challenging. There is one odd link you have to do(the 5A after 6D>BHS). Here's the video for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXRUH5NRc3o

Fun fact, this only works on Azrael, Ragna, Jin, Nu and Lambda(but the 5A>jc j.B>j.2D doesn't work on a few of them iirc)

I have seen another solution for it involving starting with OD BHS into Phalanx Cannon, but I don't remember where I found the video, unfortunately.

 

About VC, midscreen now you pretty much have to get into 3C>22C>(5B)>TC>Valiant by RCing Gustaf, etc. So instead of doing 5BB>TCL RC>Dash TK Valiant, do 5BB>Gustaf RC>(IAD j.A>j.C)>3C>22C>(5B)>TC>Valiant>...

 

The other way to do it is airborne ...>hj.C>j.D RC>TC(first hit whiffs)>Valiant or ...>hj.C>j.D RC>6C>5A>TC>Valiant. I think you could do it from 5BB>2D(RC)>2B>TC>Valiant and probably from 5BB>Growler RC>Dash 2B>TC>Valiant as well. You should be able to do it from j.2C RC>j.C>6A>Valiant too. From an airborne 6C hit you could link into 5A>TCL if the height is right.

 

In the corner you could do 5B>2C>5A>TC>Valiant instead and it'll be just fine. Otherwise do a crouching confirm into 3C>2B>TC>Valiant, but I find that doing 3C>2C>6D>etc... does more damage than Valiant at the end of things.

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Well for challenge 16 you kinda just have to grind it out. Make sure you are doing high jump B for this combo. As soon as your j.2C hits, rapid immediately and hit C.

 

Challenge 20 is not extremely difficult, but it can be challenging. There is one odd link you have to do(the 5A after 6D>BHS). Here's the video for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXRUH5NRc3o

Fun fact, this only works on Azrael, Ragna, Jin, Nu and Lambda(but the 5A>jc j.B>j.2D doesn't work on a few of them iirc)

I have seen another solution for it involving starting with OD BHS into Phalanx Cannon, but I don't remember where I found the video, unfortunately.

 

About VC, midscreen now you pretty much have to get into 3C>22C>(5B)>TC>Valiant by RCing Gustaf, etc. So instead of doing 5BB>TCL RC>Dash TK Valiant, do 5BB>Gustaf RC>(IAD j.A>j.C)>3C>22C>(5B)>TC>Valiant>...

 

The other way to do it is airborne ...>hj.C>j.D RC>TC(first hit whiffs)>Valiant or ...>hj.C>j.D RC>6C>5A>TC>Valiant. I think you could do it from 5BB>2D(RC)>2B>TC>Valiant and probably from 5BB>Growler RC>Dash 2B>TC>Valiant as well. You should be able to do it from j.2C RC>j.C>6A>Valiant too. From an airborne 6C hit you could link into 5A>TCL if the height is right.

 

In the corner you could do 5B>2C>5A>TC>Valiant instead and it'll be just fine. Otherwise do a crouching confirm into 3C>2B>TC>Valiant, but I find that doing 3C>2C>6D>etc... does more damage than Valiant at the end of things.

Thanks a lot, man. I really appreciate it. FUCK YEAH! 100% complete.

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What UNIEL character would you say Azrael most resembles gameplay wise? Or none?

 

One of my friends who's a UNIEL player is trying BB for the first time and liked Azrael. Or at least thought he would have. He said his normals feel super slow; how are you supposed to get around that?

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Since I usually play characters with "slow normals" I may be able to help.

 

In UNIEL the character that resembles the most to Azrael is Akatsuki, since Akatsuki deals a lot of damage but he needs to be close to do anything, difference is that Akatsuki doesn't have the tools to deal with characters that zone

 

In regards to slow normals, the best advice I can give you is learn how to use those normals, get a feel for your opponent and not abare too much, also pick an choose your moments, don't go ham in whiffing normals or being crazy/risky with movement, conservation of movement and action is key to slow normal characters.

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Akatsuki comes to mind like Capconian mentioned, although I would say Gordeau isn't too far off either. The only difference is Gordeau has massive specials, though I would say he has a similar playstyle. Footsie and get in, once you are next to your opponent that is when you get really scary.

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What is the Azrael/Celica matchup like? I'm asking on behalf of a friend, who's playing against a good Celica – he keeps getting punished by her air attacks. Any thoughts? (I'm more or less a noob and I play Jin, so I can't really help him out)

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Celica is such a rare character that I'm pretty sure not a lot of people have actually fought good ones. From what I've gathered, in general, she's like Jin, although her normals are worse(hurtbox issues) and she's also a lot more meter hungry. I suspect it shouldn't be worse than even, most likely advantageous for Azrael, but this is just me taking a guess.

 

It sounds like your friend has probably never really seen a proper Celica before, therefore he's having trouble. If he's getting hit by a lot of air attacks, I think he has to resort to using 6B, and maybe even risking 2C here and there for lower air dashes. While 5A and 5B may be good anti-airs, there are times you actually need the head invulnerability, especially if the player are spacing their normals right.

There are a couple of videos of Zekuso playing against Kaqn on Celica, both really good players. Do take note that these are relatively old videos however, Zekuso looked like as though he didn't know everything about Celica either.

Perhaps you could ask the Celica boards instead.

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So I noticed someone changed Scud startup to 5+2 on the wiki, which is just blatantly wrong, and since people were asking about it earlier in this thread I figured I'd post my findings. I apologize in advance if this has been discussed at greater length elsewhere. Firstly, Azrael can armor through Scud by inputting Hornet Bunker in the Superflash. Assuming Hornet Bunker doesn't get armor earlier than it did pre-extend, we know for sure that it's at least 10 frames after the superflash. Further assuming that Sentinel Dump's armor doesn't last longer than the previous 1-10 frames, we can input it in the super flash and still armor Scud. So we can say within reason that it's 10 frames after superflash (even if SD's armor frames got nerfed and HB's buffed by a similar number, this wouldn't account for enough to say the super comes out 2 frames after the flash). Going further, we can find the time pre-flash by testing the super as a punish option (which will of course also give us the total startup, and would probably have been a less dumb place to start than where I did.) Jin 3C is -15, and as a result is punishable with 5C on block, but Scud doesn't punish it. Kagura 5D~C is -16 on block (presumably) and Scud punishes it.

So in conclusion, Scud is 6+10, assuming they didn't mess with armor on Hornet Bunker or Sentinel Dump. Not the safest testing method, but if it's not 6+10, it's not far off from that.

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So "new" tech time. Remember how we discussed hornet KD midscreen giving safe jump if you do hornet KD into IAD jB? Well i have good news everyone! 

If you end your combos in corner into hornet, you can also get a safe jump! Example: UW 2A 2B TCL 5A jABC jD hornet -> hold 8 -> early jB. This setup should beat out most of the reversals par from counters like yukikaze and Tager's Magna Tech Wheel. As an added bonus it also tags forward rolls  :eng101: . Might be a good time to start thinking of routes ending into hornet! You don't really sacrifice too much damage and instead you gain a safe jump against those pesky reversals! 

EDIT: More good news! You can use aerial hit 2D as a substitue for hornet! This is helpful in cases where getting Hornet KD is hard like from LW 2A Starter!

EDIT2:

I might as well talk about the framedata too... It is true that the current data is hardly correct in all the parts but the problem is that we do not have (to my knowledge) a good source for it like a mook or a book released by someone in JP. This means we, as a community, would have to put in effort and use equipment (which not everyone has) to test moves frame by frame. You could potentially test it like Povard tested it but it would be a massive effort TBH. As such you probably just have to hit the training mode and get the feel of the game and frames that way. I do remember dogura saying that to be a top player, you don't necessarily need to know framedata. Training mode goes a looooooooong way.

 

EDIT3: 2D KD is actually better than i thought. Vid coming this weekend covering stuff regarding it and corner hornet/2D KD.

EDIT4: OK so the setup earlier doesn't actually work. Thanks for LSX pointing it out. The "problem" was that i actually fucked up doing the fastest possible ID which led me to the results i got. HOWEVER instead one should be able to do the IAD jB safejump in the corner also. Basically just do hornet/2D into IAD early jB which should safejump plus tag forward rolls. This time around there should be no mistakes but please do double check the setup and give a heads up if it doesn't work. Zekuso did similar setup at ArcRevo but used jA instead. 

Also regarding the last update. I will make the video about it later this month once i get back to finland from Dublin. Basically the gist of it is using IAD j2D for the safejump which has interesting implications. Not entirely sure yet since i couldn't get it consistent but you might be able to 1. safejump using j2D (this i'm pretty sure about) 2. tag backwards rolls with it and 3. tag forward rolls (this is still ???). 

 

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Looking at Ragna's 22A~C OS, I wondered if Azrael could do something like that. As it turns out, it gives out a pretty meh result, but still interesting somewhat.

So, 5D close knockdown midscreen, if you 22D~C immediately after, if they emergency tech, you get a meaty 2D. If they neutral tech/both rolls, you'd get a meaty 22C instead. On the forward roll, it'd vacuum them back in, but on the backward roll, it pushes them away a bit, which is sad, but you are still positive. The only problem is on delayed wakeup or quick tech, they can just mash and CH you on wakeup. Delayed neutral tech, they CH you while you're in recovery, quick tech they CH you while you're in the air.

On other knockdowns(tested in the corner), like j. 2D or 2C>6D, you have to delay it somewhat to get the effect above. Else you'd get a 'pseudo-safe jump'. Pseudo, because in the case they neutral tech DP(also catches 7f supers), you can block it in time, but they could just neutral tech/quick tech mash and CH you. The 22C doesn't actually force them to block in this case. If they emergency tech, you can still get a 5A meaty after 2A whiffs iirc(22A~C, not 22D~C in this case) However, you can't block 7f supers if they neutral tech as fast as they can.

The sad part in all this is that you don't actually punish them late teching because you get 22C instead, and you don't get a meaty if you 22C either, in the case of the pseudo-safe jump. I guess it might be useful in feeling out your opponents(especially the midscreen one) and tricking very skittish opponents(DP on wakeup), but overall, it's very limited in application, especially when they catch on. I haven't tested it thoroughly, what happens if I delay it so that I 2A a roll or something, though I don't really foresee much/not sure if possible. Could be wrong though. You want a safe jump, Kinkuli's setup is way more reliable and less gimmicky.

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I'm not sure if it was mentioned in here at all, but off of an air hit 2D knockdown, if you don't opt for the safe jump, you can opt for an immediate 2D after the first one that will be a guaranteed punish on any delay tech. It blue beats, but since you pop a mark you can just 2D again to re apply it. If they tech as they land you have enough time to meaty after whiffing the 2D.

Also was testing some Gustaf stuff. Turns out it has 1 frame more blockstun than hitstun (at 27f total blockstun). As a result, 236A > RC > 6D is a blockstring, as is 236A > RC > 66 > 5A/2A/5B. I also don't think the new property they added to Gustaf in CPE was mentioned anywhere either, but basically if you do it from far enough away, it has almost no pushback, so when Azrael takes that step forwards in the recovery, you actually get a pressure reset. Even on Barrier Block you can still tag a jump out attempt or someone mashing a jab thinking you'll be of 5A range. Works nicely if they ever barrier block 5BB, since they won't be able to avoid blocking a 5C after it through conventional means. RC > 66 > 5A is also a blockstring even on IB if you're looking to prevent a reversal attempt, and the forward dash can cross up depending on the spacing (and assuming they didn't barrier the gustaf). Not necessarily new stuff since Gustaf had more blockstun in the previous version, so this all would've worked before.

tl;dr if you really need to stay 110% in there, or want an unmashable high/low/crossup (and crush trigger if they don't IB), then gustaf RC is a pretty good option.

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Some beginner questions:

1)Why do people use 236D - 6B - 6B instead of 236D - 5C - 5C (I know the first variant is much easier) (without smp on normal moves in CF, is that possible to do 236D - 6A - 6A?)

2)What to do against characters who abuse air movement (like Tao or Rachel), I know Azrael has 2C and 6B but they are very situational and rarely work 

3)What's the method to learn/practice Azrael's basic links like 5A - 5B or TCL - 5B - 2C in corner?

 

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Some beginner questions:

1)Why do people use 236D - 6B - 6B instead of 236D - 5C - 5C (I know the first variant is much easier) (without smp on normal moves in CF, is that possible to do 236D - 6A - 6A?)

2)What to do against characters who abuse air movement (like Tao or Rachel), I know Azrael has 2C and 6B but they are very situational and rarely work 

3)What's the method to learn/practice Azrael's basic links like 5A - 5B or TCL - 5B - 2C in corner?

 

1) 6B nets you more damage and reps, although you might want use 5C when travelling from corner to the other. 6B's short range might cause it to whiff if 236D doesn't hit at close range.

2) 5B & 5A also work, even though they don't have head invul. especially 5B usually trades in azrael's favor. you can also try throwing out rising j.As 'cause they're fast and j.Cs 'cause on CH the opponent can't tech until they touch the ground. In these matchups you must make your opportunities count, once you catch them try to lock them down.

3) just practice, they get easier over time. just don't mash, you just have to learn the timings. there's a certain rhytm to it, try practicing 5A > 5A > 5A and 5A > 2A > 5A and 5A > 5B > 2C. TCL > 5B in the corner is a bit tight and (I'm not sure someone correct me) might be starter spesific, so try learning TCL > 5A > j.ABC > j.D first and then develop it further with 5B and 2C.

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3) just practice, they get easier over time. just don't mash, you just have to learn the timings.

Well, the problem is that i'm not sure when exactly i have to press the buttons.

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Well, the problem is that i'm not sure when exactly i have to press the buttons.

the sound ques in challenge mode might help, experiment

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His links are more like slightly delayed gatlings thn actual links.  If it helps, you can press the next button as soon as the hitstun for the last move ends.

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TCL > 5B in the corner is a bit tight and (I'm not sure someone correct me) might be starter spesific, so try learning TCL > 5A > j.ABC > j.D first and then develop it further with 5B and 2C.

you're correct, TCL > 5B only connects with normal starters, off a 2A/5A starter, you have to do 5A. Also worth note is anything with more button presses than 5A > 5B > 5BB > TCL > 5A > j.ABC > j.D will drop during the air combo. So if you confirm with 5A > 5A for instance, you'll need to omit the 5BB to actually get your ender.

 

As for getting the timing on TCL > 5A and other links down, you just gotta grind it till you get the feel for it. If by any chance you're not aware of it, there's a setting to make the computer block after a dropped combo on the ground. It's the second setting from the top of the 4th page in the start menu in training. The default is not blocking ever, second setting is always blocking, and third setting is blocking after the first hit. It speeds up grinding the links out imo.

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Hi folks! I picked up cpex about a month ago and I've been pretty hooked on Azrael ever since, to the point that I really want to get good in a fighting game for once instead of my usual dabbling. 

While I've had reasonable success playing him online(game is kinda dead in my area so I've no alternative) thanks to putting in tons of work in the lab, I can't for the life of me tk cancel his dashes consistently.

I'm pretty sure it's not a case of me being unfamiliar with the tecnichque since I can do it very easily as a crossup (662149C/D for example) but I almost always end up just doing an sjc when I do it regularly (662369C/D).

Does anyone have any input tips regarding this? It's been extremely frustrating since that's the one tool I just don't see any improvement in despite how much I practice.

 

p.s I'm playing on pad for now for reference.

 

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Just grind it out i suppose? I do it 662369C for example like you said and i personally don't have problems. Maybe you are inputting C too slow? 

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Is the frame data on the wiki correct for Extend? I see a note saying it's just the same old data from regular CP, though I'm not sure how much has actually changed. 

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Not entirely sure if it is correct. CA for example is definitely not -5 anymore, should be more, Other than that it looks correct? There hasn't been an official mook iirc so hard to say for sure ofc. 

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