Xrd option select, special move or faultless defence!

[Shinjin]

Have you ever wanted to do a special/super if your opponent does an attack, but at the same time do faultless defence if they didn´t? (see picture 1 and 2)

Well it is in fact possible despite how the Guilty Gear system prioritizes faultless defence over specials if a given circumstance is given. Apparently, FD gets priority as long as your opponent 1/ is within a certain distance, and 2/ they are not attacking. Jake (@guiltyjake) found this playing around with Sol, and we’ve come to a couple of examples of how it can be applied.
 

Type 1 = Specials/supers that end their input with 4

1/ Slayer: K-dstep if the opponent does an attack, fd if they don´t? 214K+HS!
2/ Sol: Grand viper if the opponent does an attack, fd if they don´t? 214S+HS!
3/ Axl: Catch move if the opponent does an attack, fd if they don´t? 214P+HS!
4/ Works for Axl's/May's/Ramlethal's inv. supers as well.
 

Type 2 = Specials that end their input with 8

5/ Works for Leo's flash kick as well! Just charge 1 to 7 instead of 8!
 

Type 3 = Any special/super

6/ The option select works If you input 4 and two buttons after ANY special/super (including e.g. stun dipper, volcanic viper, benten, emerald rain etc.).
 

So apparently the input priority system has some oddities. I would like to explore this in more detail and record it as well, but, alas, I'm in the midst moving this weekend. I look forward to see what the community does with this, and look forward to see it patched out of the game by Revelator ^^
 

Best regards,
@shinjinbaiken

[TheRealBobMan]

Thanks for sharing the info.  This sounds like a terrible bug.  DP/FD option select is kusoge.

 

This warrants serious investigation to confirm what's going on.

 

FD gets priority as long as your opponent is within a certain distance, and if they are not attacking.

 

I can't think of a reason why the game would measure distance and weigh that on whether or not FD should have priority.  We need to be absolutely sure there's no user error or anything going on here.  Do we know if this bug is Cross Platform?

 

 

 

If this is really a thing, ArcSys better patch ASAP, like before Evo.  It would piss off a lot of people to leave this in until Revelator.

[Final Ultima]

I can't think of a reason why the game would measure distance and weigh that on whether or not FD should have priority.  We need to be absolutely sure there's no user error or anything going on here.  Do we know if this bug is Cross Platform?

 

In the BlazBlue games, distance determines when certain motions can overwrite others during an opponent's super freeze. Proximity-based input priority is definitely a thing.

[Shinjin]

I guess it's a kind of very lenient proximity option select.

And well, it's not only the ridiculousness of DP/FD in specific defensive situations, but it's applicability also goes for the neutral game. Imagine playing Ky against Axl and at a specific range being able to punish certain pokes with stun dipper, but only getting a standing FD if he didn´t press a button. That's stupidly good.

Sure, if one is aware that your opponent has these tricks up his/her sleve you can adapt to a certain extent. Also, it's most likely only truly useful in very specific situations. But the easier they are to execute, the more useful these kinds of option selects become.

It really is a thing, and I don´t see this being patched before EVO, so learn when and how to use it to get that money ^^

[Zinac]

Seems pretty good at beating delayed wakeup options too.  Against true meaties you just get FD instead of a reversal, if they delay the attack you get the special. Weeee

[Coffeeling]

Does this work in AC+R and Reload?

[TheRealBobMan]

And well, it's not only the ridiculousness of DP/FD in specific defensive situations

 

 

Run in VV / Dash Break > Throw.

 

Fuck defense, this is bullshit anywhere.  It's going to help some characters more than others too, but I guess I wont fully understand it until I jump in and play with it.

 

 

Against true meaties you just get FD instead of a reversal, if they delay the attack you get the special.

 

Is this a timing thing?  Based on the explanation of how the tech works, I thought you get the attack if they do, so you'd think you'd get your reversal if they meatied and FD if they delayed to bait the DP.

[GaoGaoGao]

Just wanted to make a quick video showing this off.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJF6zpby5Jw

 

This is really useful for Leo because he can put the opponent in a lot of situations to take advantage of this. 

[Maho]

Well this is also very bad for Leo as it's really strong against stance mixups it the opponent have a reversal.

 

One strange thing is that some projectile attacks don't trigger the special, like little eddie's attacks or Chipp's shuriken, while some moves that don't hit will trigger it, like for example Slayer's dandy step, Sin's command jump or Millia's roll, fastfall and chroming rose activation.

[TheRealBobMan]

It looks like in the first example, K+H are pressed at the same time, whereas in the second example K is pressed first, with K+H on the next frame.

 

 

If I map S+H to my H button, then do 214S+H that way, I get FD 100% of the time that my recorded CPU doesn't do anything, and GV any time I have it play back and do the input after it starts moving.  So yeah, this is a thing.

 

 

However, I can't get it to work yet with Special Moves or Supers ending on an input that isn't 4.  This is the version that has me concerned.  It's the version that we have in the example video, except that the input wasn't clean.  I tried it myself with Leo with S+H mapped to a button, but I either get FD when hitting the button on the 4 input, or the DP on the 7 input, and that's regardless of what the CPU is doing.  To me, this seems like user error.  This version of the OS is what worried me most, so if it's not a thing I'm a lot happier.  Anyone else have input?

 

RE Maho:  It looks like it's tied to the opponent's hurtbox.  I can do it from like 1/2 screen if I'm attacking Axl's chain on his f.S.

[GaoGaoGao]

Yeah, the first vid wasnt clean, but I made a revised version. I did it with the dummy this time so the input is the exact same both times.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYE16jNVfH4

 

I cant get it to work at just neutral though, only after I do like a block string or something, which is weird cause im technically at neutral after the blockstring in the vid.

 

I did a little test setting Leo's j.236H into stance D and j.236 into nothing on two separate recordings and having the playback set to random. Its a bit harder to do the OS as a reversal, but more often than not I would get DP when Leo did stance D and FD when Leo did nothing, which means Leo can bait it out with stance D.

[TheRealBobMan]

Ok, so that's a pain in the ass dealing with Leo, and I guess it could help May or Venom with traps using their down>up charges.  What about Type 3 which apparently works after any special move or super?  The 214 and 63214 input ones make some kind of sense since you're ending with the directional input that gives FD, and you're doing the same with Leo's DP if you use 1>7.  What do you have to do to be able to do an input like 623 and get it to cancel into FD?  I tried 623 > 1S+H, but that didn't work.  Am I timing it wrong?  Is there another method?

[Red Star]

What do you have to do to be able to do an input like 623 and get it to cancel into FD?  I tried 623 > 1S+H, but that didn't work.  Am I timing it wrong?  Is there another method?

You are timing it wrong. Just do 6231+ whatever two buttons needed. I just tried this with Pot and you can do it with Megafist, Hammerfall, even Potemkin Buster. Seems like it has a lot of potential, especially with Megafist in some matchups.

[Rhannmah]

Wow. This seems completely broken.

[TheRealBobMan]

Ok, got it to work.

 

 

Yeah, this is stupid.  The Burst YRC option select that people complained about has nothing on this.  Ugh.

[Red Star]

Apparently, FD gets priority as long as your opponent 1/ is within a certain distance, and 2/ they are not attacking. Jake (@guiltyjake) found this playing around with Sol, and we’ve come to a couple of examples of how it can be applied.

I just wanted to point out that the first part is incorrect. Your opponents distance does not affect the option select. It is instead the hitbox of the move. From just looking at how it works it seems to be connected to if you would go into a blocking animation (the animation where your character holds up his hands to block). I did a quick test with Zato's full screen HS drill against Potemkin doing this OS with Megafist. The HS drill causes Pot to go into a blocking animation even though the drill won't connect, and the option select comes out. Same goes for Lil eddie moves, or fireballs of any sort.

TL:DR: If a htibox is in proximity to cause your character to go into a blocking animation, then it will trigger the OS.

Edit: I should note hitbox isn't totally correct either. As Sin's eat doesn't have a hitbox, but it does make you go into the blocking animation. So basically anything that would cause a character go into the blocking animation triggers the OS.

[Pomparomp]

patch when

[DaiAndOh]

Ok, so that's a pain in the ass dealing with Leo, and I guess it could help May or Venom with traps using their down>up charges.  What about Type 3 which apparently works after any special move or super?  The 214 and 63214 input ones make some kind of sense since you're ending with the directional input that gives FD, and you're doing the same with Leo's DP if you use 1>7.  What do you have to do to be able to do an input like 623 and get it to cancel into FD?  I tried 623 > 1S+H, but that didn't work.  Am I timing it wrong?  Is there another method?

It's an interesting idea to use with HS Carcass, but I think it would be most beneficial if that ball didn't go away when Venom got it. Other situations I'd use it in, it's actually great if they do nothing and block it!

But yeah overall, not very useful for Venom imo, as far as my initial thoughts...

[Red Star]

http://youtu.be/Pguyni5r2e4

Using the OS with Megafist. Being able to get FD when Sin does nothing, and get Megafist when he does f.S and beak driver is pretty sweet. He could bait the OS with other normals, but then he isn't throwing out f.S or beak driver. Same thing goes with Faust f.S and 2H.

[Maho]

One question, a french player claims this worked from XX and that he was using it, I just tried in #R pc and recorded 60fps vids to check my inputs, even with only 1f between the special button and the second button to get FD, I can't get it to work, I get FD all the time.

Is there a special trick I don't know in this version or is the player mistaken and it doesn't work?

 

 

Yeah, the first vid wasnt clean, but I made a revised version. I did it with the dummy this time so the input is the exact same both times.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYE16jNVfH4

 

I cant get it to work at just neutral though, only after I do like a block string or something, which is weird cause im technically at neutral after the blockstring in the vid.

 

I did a little test setting Leo's j.236H into stance D and j.236 into nothing on two separate recordings and having the playback set to random. Its a bit harder to do the OS as a reversal, but more often than not I would get DP when Leo did stance D and FD when Leo did nothing, which means Leo can bait it out with stance D.

My theory for why it's easier to do after a blocked move is that you have to get the special input at the very end of your move's recovery, so it will come out right after it in a normal situation. Now at the time of this input, you can't jump yet, so if you input the second button before the end of the recovery of the previous move, FD will take over and stop you from jumping.

I guess the extended buffer window in 1.1 helps to make this work, maybe that's even why we didn't heard of this sooner.

 

As for Stance D, it was the first thing I tried when I realised some non-hiting moves would trigger the special to come out, and sadly for us it looks like it doesn't, when I do the OS as a record and try to do stance mixup against it as Leo, stance D get me the FD 100% of the time.

 

 

[Anne]

I just wanted to point out that the first part is incorrect. Your opponents distance does not affect the option select. It is instead the hitbox of the move. From just looking at how it works it seems to be connected to if you would go into a blocking animation (the animation where your character holds up his hands to block). I did a quick test with Zato's full screen HS drill against Potemkin doing this OS with Megafist. The HS drill causes Pot to go into a blocking animation even though the drill won't connect, and the option select comes out. Same goes for Lil eddie moves, or fireballs of any sort.

TL:DR: If a htibox is in proximity to cause your character to go into a blocking animation, then it will trigger the OS.

Edit: I should note hitbox isn't totally correct either. As Sin's eat doesn't have a hitbox, but it does make you go into the blocking animation. So basically anything that would cause a character go into the blocking animation triggers the OS.

 

I just wanna point out there's a designated hitbox attached to each move that will trigger proximity block. It's still an invisible hitbox, just instead of it being something that is considered a strike that causes hit/blockstun, it just causes a block animation if you hold back. Here's an example from SF4, that big yellow box extending outward won't cause hit or blockstun of course, but if you holw back while it overlaps you it causes proximity guard http://i39.tinypic.com/nb4zf6.jpg

 

SF4 actually has a version of this OS, but without something like FD taking priority over another input, you'd have to mask it by whiffing something else. So a character would input like cr.MK, layer the input for an Ultra on it, then block. If the opoonent tried to hit something after the cr.MK whiffed that triggers proximity block, Ultra comes out. If not, you just block. Here it is: https://youtu.be/McUB3Pey1WEwatch the Cammy player's inputs. She's hiding the OS inside of the cr.MP, then the fireball trips proximity guard, bam Ultra comes out.

 

Unfortunately in SF4, you have to mask this by whiffing something(with enough frames to hide the buffer at that), which makes the usefulness go way down considering how bad whiffs in neutral tend to be. On top of that, the OS can be triggered in ways that make it not desirable in a number of situations as well rather easily. Also it's really hard to do properly, and the engine is pretty good at fucking it up.

 

In Xrd, FD taking priority gets rid of the huge con of having to hide it inside something, so that's a huge plus. Plus the types of situations that happen in Xrd probably favor this type thing more, as well as the types of moves you'll be OSing. If none of those cons present in the SF4 variant pop up, then I guess this will see a lot more use. In theory of how Xrd tends to work in general, this will probably be pretty useful in a number of spots.

 

I would like to point out real quick that situations that normally deal with the primary option you'll be OSing under the FD will probably play out the same. Stuff like Milla disc or Zato doing safe oki should still work okay by my guess.

 

I'd also like to take the time to point out people cried rivers for days when it was found in SF4 proclaiming neutral game was dead. Nowadays people don't even talk about it and its presence in the overall meta is incredibly low. It ended up being something to not account for in that game, so it's good to be wary of this particular family of option selects, as they haven't played out well in other games.

[Coffeeling]

Unfortunately in SF4

O_o'

Unfortunately in SF4 game breaking OS turned out too hard to implement. Strange viewpoint is strange.

[TheRealBobMan]

Hiding an input in the recovery of another move is pretty different from doing the input for a move and pushing an extra button to get it to block instead.  This probably wont hurt oki/wakeup as much as it'll hurt neutral since, like you said, safe options (like the basic safe jump) will probably bait it.

 

But for neutral, it's going to be worse than SF4 because you don't have to whiff a normal to use it.  I say this is way worse than the Burst Bait OS that was patched.  It probably wont ruin the game, but why is it here?  I'm testing PS3 +R now and it doesn't happen in this game.

 

 

@Maho:  There's a definite margin for input error in +R though that might make it look like this is a thing, but with thorough testing I'm pretty confident that it doesn't work that way in this game. Negative edge makes it so that if you release the button too quickly you'll only FD for like a frame and then the move will come out, and if you release to neutral before hitting the button, you'll get the move without FD coming out, which is expected.  This could account for the player thinking that it's an OS.  We'd need more info from him/her.

 

When I map a button to PKS and replay the same input, I'm only getting FD.  No changes based on what the other player is doing.

[Maho]

Yeah I thought the same thing about the negative edge as the most probable reason how that player would mistake it as an OS in the older games.

[Red Star]

I'd also like to take the time to point out people cried rivers for days when it was found in SF4 proclaiming neutral game was dead. Nowadays people don't even talk about it and its presence in the overall meta is incredibly low. It ended up being something to not account for in that game, so it's good to be wary of this particular family of option selects, as they haven't played out well in other games.

People didn't realize the limitations of SF4's proximity OS. They had to be crouching moves or specials that caused crouching, that also had to have enough frames where they transition back to crouching that you can actually reliably hit your OS. So you had to basically whiff or make them block a certain crouching move, have them attack, and have a special that actually beat the attack. With all those considered it still has applications for some characters.

This OS in Xrd is so much easier to pull off and universal as far as I can see. I don't think it is game breaking but it certainly has potential. I don't think it will be a serious problem unless you start seeing matches where both players are just walking forward and then crouch FD blocking over and over in neutral.