Structuring Pressure

[edollarports]

'see me in bb'

'but we're alread-'
*unplug his pad*

Bam

[DJ_Blactricity]

So you have no self awareness when you play. You have to be conscious of what you're doing or you won't figure out your mistakes. How can you if you don't even know what you're doing, literally?

It sounds like you're playing on auto pilot. Do you think about specific things to do or do you just zone out and play?

Anyway if you want a cookbook for every single possible situation, there isn't one. You have to figure that out yourself through play experience and experimentation. What people here can do is point out the concepts missing in your game and if you go to specific subforums, which tactics and blockstrings are sound to use.

I myself don't have a set list of blockstrings I use; I improvise based on the opponent and situation. But each move I do during the string has a purpose.

Its not that I'm unaware of what I'm doing. I go with the flow until the opponent breaks it. Then I make a mental note of what happened. I don't think about specific things that much. I will occasionally, but that's when I can't crack their defence or keep them under pressure.

I was never looking for blockstrings. I wanted to understand the decision-making process during pressure, and how risk/reward influenced those decisions.

The secret to opening skd up is to make him not take you seriously/complacent/drunk and to do random, stupid shit with lopsided risk reward

Note this only works in casuals

Also not sure if possible online

Alternatively play him in gg cause he's free

It's no point of opening him up when he's not serious.

Edit: edollarports add me.

[greatfernman]

good luck opening him up when he's focused

 

he can react to throws

[mAc Chaos]

Its not that I'm unaware of what I'm doing. I go with the flow until the opponent breaks it. Then I make a mental note of what happened. I don't think about specific things that much. I will occasionally, but that's when I can't crack their defence or keep them under pressure.

I was never looking for blockstrings. I wanted to understand the decision-making process during pressure, and how risk/reward influenced those decisions.It's no point of opening him up when he's not serious.

Edit: edollarports add me.

Start small, with one situation.

 

Let's consider Ragna's wake up in the corner. No meter on either side. Both have no burst either.

 

Let's say you're Jin. Now think of all your options in this situation, and Ragna's, and the risk each one takes, and the reward they'll get on both sides (damage? meter? getting out? mixup?).

 

Once you've mapped out the risk/reward you can make a better decision about what to do when. You have to understand the other character's options too.

[edollarports]

You can go with the flow, but you have to remember that on offense, you usually set the flow, and sinking into a comfortable pace will make it easier for your opponent unless you show you're actively considering your options.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Start small, with one situation.

 

Let's consider Ragna's wake up in the corner. No meter on either side. Both have no burst either.

 

Let's say you're Jin. Now think of all your options in this situation, and Ragna's, and the risk each one takes, and the reward they'll get on both sides (damage? meter? getting out? mixup?).

 

Once you've mapped out the risk/reward you can make a better decision about what to do when. You have to understand the other character's options too.

What type of knockdown? If sekkajin or dp c safejump to catch rolls/quick getup. If they delayed their tech. I'll block. Hizansen ender I'll just step back outside dp and 5B range and poke with 5D or 2D. Icecar knockdown Try to catch roll/quick getup with 2B if it whiffs 94ABj.2C hopefully they dped and I block instead of them antiairing me with 5A. I'm not going to go for a mixup most likely. I'd rather keep them in the corner, and avoid situations where they could dp or escape.

[mAc Chaos]

It doesn't matter, just pick one. But the important part is: why are you doing those things? You have to break down each choice with the pros and cons, what the other player might do, what you gain from doing it, what you risk, what they gain and what they risk. Once you do that you can see what kind of things make sense to do and what kind of things you should do to stop what the opponent wants to do.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Basically, black I think you need to start considering your situations and your opponents more; if you're playing guys like SKD, then you need to take note everything they do, even if they aren't doing anything at all. (Unless its casuals, in which case I doubt anyone is serious and focused lol). Basically, its like applying the five W's to a fighting game match.

 

 

Who is the opponent using?

 

What are they going to do in a given situation?

 

When are they going to make the decision you think they're going to do?

 

Where on screen are they to make this decision?

 

Why did they make that decision?

 

 

There's probably more to it than this, but I feel its understanding the opponent and their habits and exploiting them. But you also to be aware the opponent is doing the same to you, its like a chess match, you have to out think the opponent and make moves based on how they move themselves.

[Airk]

TD et al:

 

It's not that I think there's anything wrong with your answer, it's that I don't think you are understandign what Blacktricity is trying to ask.  I think what I was trying to say is that DJB is looking for some "Deeper" solution than you are providing.  You are saying "Figure out what the opponent is going to do and then do the thing that beats it" but he's basically asking, as far as I can tell "How do I figure out what my opponent is going to do?"/"How do I do things that will help me figure out what my opponent is going to do?" which your answer doesn't address.

 

Hence the car analogy wherein you are telling him all the things he needs to do, but he's asking how to know when to do them.

[TD]

There is no 100% way to figure out the opponent's next action, the only thing one can do is deduce what the next thing will be. It's why even the best have to leave room for error in their play, because even the best planned strategy doesn't go right 100%. Be optimistic as you want, but if that 1% chance of losing a strategy can be quite obnoxious.

This is why I answered the question this way. None of us are psychics, we just use our skills and a bit of luck to manuever around the battlefield. That's why the best players tend to be well-rounded, to cover up their mistakes as best and as much as possible.

Your best bet is to you history and the present to shape the future of the match and not trying to peer into the future to shape the present.

[DJ_Blactricity]

Airk, What you stated is what I want to know, but after making this thread I see I need to go back to the basics. Mac's posts along with TD's posts is the answer to that question. Right now I just pressure hope I get a hit and then confirm it, and repeat the cycle. What I should be doing is limiting my opponent's defensive options. I can't limit them all, but I can limit a few. Which gives them less options to choose from plus by knowing my and my opponents options in a situation I can kinda guess the route they'll go based on the risk/reward of each option. Through playing them more I can learn their tendencies which will help me make the correct decision. It's still a guess though, and it'll probably devolve from a chess match to rps.

[skd]

A bit more on track, but still kind of square one. What exactly are you limiting on offense?

Let's go back to just hoping you get a hit and confirm it. Do you think your opponents are so bad that they'll just let you run this sub par offense on them? Part of why you're having this issue is because you don't have a good basis of understanding why your offense works against whoever it works on (if you care about ideal pressure structure, I'm going to throw netplay out the window), probably because it "just does". Of course, you can come to proper conclusions but you do have to dig a bit.

So, have you really not thought about why your offense works the way it does? How restricted are my opponents options? Is it lag? Why not try to figure it out? That should give you a reference point.

You can't only limit your opponents options, you need to consider how that affects them too. Oh? This situation is more linear? Suddenly, it becomes much easier for me to react to certain specific options.

Just, pretty easy idea, what if you tried to open yourself up offline? On defense, how would you respond to your own pressure? If you've hit a wall, think about different ways of responding. Develop your defense tactics to deal with things. If your logic is sound you'll give yourself familiarity with properties and concepts that you can apply. Extrapolate. Rinse, repeat. Refine. If you're stuck, you could ask a more specific question, how do I structure pressure to beat x, or how do I deal with x on defense.

Tbh, this thread seems more of "how do I develop" than anything. IMO for you it extends beyond pressure, so you should try to think about the game in general in a more perceptive way.

It's really not a secret, and asking for the answers is not going to help you grow as a player. This is more than an issue of not knowing how to structure pressure, it's not knowing how to develop period. And if you don't know that getting direct answers will not stop you from getting left behind.

So please, be critical of every little thing that YOU do. Even if you choose to do nothing, it's a choice. Saying "I just do stuff and don't think but I want to get better" is like, blowing my mind. There's your answer! Think about things! You said it yourself. I'm more than a little salty about that.

I personally don't know what kind of answer you want. In terms of your last reply my impression is you're too focused on a method of deriving these things. it feels as if you barely consider the other player. Of course, this might be due to experience but now we're back at a wall of personal experience, most likely netplay affecting your theory, so you need to shift your head away from that.

Imo, stick to training mode. Focus on developing theory. Take stances as both players. Start by questioning your own play decisions. Don't be overly doubtful, but make sure you understand as much as you can about the situation. What ideas make up this decision? Chances are, some of them are useful in other areas. Eventually you'll build a knowledge base of how the game's systems and properties interact, and you'll be able to come to more substantial, practical ideas about how to attack and defend. The game is SMART, deep, developed. Smarter responses are, well, smarter. And this happens more and more as you learn more and more. I didn't really want to touch this thread and this isn't the most on topic post but okay

[mAc Chaos]

I was actually going to refer you to this thread but kept forgetting.