Negative Mentality I cant change

[Shigekazu]

I started fighting games like a year ago, and I just started Persona two days ago after Blazblue all this time.

 

Everytime I play a video Game, my fear of losing takes over every choice I make in a negative way.

 

In match making, when Im in the Lobbies, and I see these S+ or A rank players, I avoid them completely, even if someone is like C rank, I hesitate to play them, because im thinking, "It wouldnt make sense to play someone who played like 5000+ matches, its obvious whats go to happen, Im going to get rekt, so why bother try." I go with that, and then I look people who I assume is at my level.

 

When choosing a character, instead of choosing I WANT to play, I choose the character that has something that makes less harder for me, (aka. Full screen projectiles, longer range to hide my weak close range game) When things stop going well from using said character, I switch to another character, not bother trying ways around things with said character or putting any effort. 

 

Its obvious that I cannot take a loss, and when I do, get VERY frustrated because the main goal is to win, and Im not doing that.

 

Any tips?

[Myoro]

It's true you may have started at a deficit, but with a better mentality you can actually accelerate your skill growth at the game to catch up!

 

Well I find the best way to go about this is to compare yourself to yourself. Simply try to do better each match then you did the one previous and you'll eventually grow very powerful. Keep track of how well you do match to match, and be give yourself time to improve. Nobody gets strong overnight. A useful tool is the replay function, which can be used catch and iron out mistakes in your gameplay. As always, asking questions to people who are experienced or doing something different with marginal success will yield results. And don't be afraid to ask your opponent what you can do better.

 

Try to set other goals for yourself aside from winning. Goals like "Use this combo in this situation" or "Use this frametrap or oki option properly." You'll find that even if you don't win initially you'll get a sense of accomplishment by improving your skill set in this way.

 

Finally, remember to relax and enjoy yourself. It does wonders believe me.

 

I wish you the best of luck from this point on. Keep up the good fight. Other people here prolly have some great sage advice and I'd strongly recommend listening to what they have to say.

 

EDIT: Sorry a bit more. When chosing a character it's important to make sure it's someone you have fun with. They will take you much further than someone who's good or simple but boring to you. That said there's no shame in alternating and using both.

 

When fighting very strong people you have to go in with different goals, winning not being one of them. Try to learn from what they do during the match; absorb the wisdom and experience in their tech, and sure if you think you can, win.

[Tsuki Garyuu]

I remember a similar scenario when I first played Calamity Trigger since day one. Losing is universally frustrating, so with that in mind, I didn't care too much about losing, but at the same time, if I don't at least TRY to stand a chance against a player who's better than me, then I don't think I'm gonna improve, much less gain a satisfying experience with a fighting game. And when I really get frustrated, I just stop for a while or pick someone else to fight.

 

My advice is to channel your frustrations and turn them into motivation. If there's an opponent that you think you stand a chance against, but still lost anyway, fight him again. And again. And again. And again. Chances are even though you're not winning, you're still learning about how this opponent plays his character, you figured out how counter his attack patterns, gimmicks, etc. Convince yourself that you are getting closer and closer to winning at least one match. And trust me, when you do, you are going to scream and shout with glee. At least, that's kinda what I did when I endured 11 matches against a Azrael vs. my Bullet. I give the opponent a good "gg" for putting up with me until that point. lol

 

And what's interesting is that this is what I do with the opponents I win against all the time: I like to keep beating them because I like whipping them into shape, always giving them a chance until they're satisfied. I like to think this is a positive standard because I like it when players don't take one loss and be done with it, that they keep fighting that one player they want to win against with good confidence. That's more important to me than a Win/Loss ratio.

[zaeris]

For me anyway in new games, setting goals to achieve can be a great motivator hence you can neglect the fact that you might not be winning as much but gain small victories during most of matches.

With a new games or character, something like:

I want to land xx combo in matches and expand on that.

I want to punish xx move consistently everytime.

Anti-air xx attack

Land xx okizeme/mix up.

So with games like blazblue and persona setting small goals like these can start you off.

Lastly I believe in luck and training, the more training you do the more luckier you will feel in when playing.

Edit: echoing Myoro.

Often finding people to play with offline in friendlier environment is more rewarding than online games.

Other times knowledge is a factor since the guy with more experiemce has more knowledge, i.e perform xx during this situation or avoid xx situation. Sometimes you will need to do your due deligence and study matches, your character and your opponent character. In this case you can improve on what you did wrong with knowledge and try to reinforce that with more practising.

[TD]

This is not a matter of life or death. You might want to put yourself in a calm state before playing, there really isn't a reason you should not at least be trying a few games with these people for varied results.

Remember losing is the required path to winning, unless you have too much talent, better used counting cards at a casino or winning the lottery. Anyway, lose to win.

[Shigekazu]

Thanks everyone. I'll just try to remember to have fun, and be willing to learn. 

[Airk]

yeah. Fun first, winning second.  The only time winning should even TRY to come first is when there's money on the line.

[mAc Chaos]

If you can't have fun losing then you'll never enjoy fighting games.

[Dark__Divider]

Pretty much what Myoro said. You probably can't help comparing yourself to other players, that much I think is unavoidable, but you should also compare yourself to your past self so that you see how you've improved. You'll have matches and think "I should have done that there", and maybe next time you'll remember and you WILL do that there. 

Also, use the character that's the most fun to use. If you're not having fun, chances are you won't learn anything because the passion and drive to win just isn't there. Maxamillion Dood has a video which pretty much says these same kinda things. 

[Tsuki Garyuu]

I just remembered that this is what I did right here. That'll give you an easier idea of what I meant.

[PandaFace]

i get this too somewhat. something that helped me is adding some people who are much better than me on skype, and playing against them while just chatting away. helps me calm down and makes me worry about playing randoms a bit less.

 

maybe that sounds weird but meh. whatever works right? :P

[Shigekazu]

Thanks everyone for your advice. :3

[SuzakuRainmaker]

What I need help with is trying to come to grips with the idea that records don't matter. Right now my ranked record is like, 5-39. Fucking atrocious. At the end of the day, I realize it doesn't really matter, but my mindset when playing is "Holy shit, I fucking suck, I have no business playing anything ever, I'm an absolute embarrassment, etc, etc." and I get insanely depressed over it.

 

So what's the best method of drilling the 'it doesn't matter' into my head and replacing the negative shit?

[GKHiryu]

I'll just drop by to say that wins and losses are meaningless by themselves. You give your losses too much negative value instead of embracing them. You just start out, it's okay to lose, it's okay to have 5% win ratio, it's okay to be very bad stats wise. As long as you keep in mind that you can improve by losing, your losses will actually be important stepping stones to getting better. In fact, wins are just there to motivate you, to show you that you are getting better. However, it's the losses that teach you - you lose because you lack something. Until someone exposes that flaw in your gameplay, you may never become aware of it.

 

So anyway, keep things positive, stay calm and think about the game rather than the numbers. And as always, if you feel that the frustration is just too much, take a break and do something else.

[Airk]

If you're really that worried about your "record" just delete it at the end of every play session.

[BlackYakuzu94]

Playing to win is the worst way to improve; play to improve, not to win.

[susano]

There are times where I get that mentality as well so you're not alone. I want to try and break that cycle because its wrong and I won't learn anything that way.

 

I find myself being very pessimistic when I run into someone who would most likely crush me.

[Moy_X7]

It's never fun to be on the losing end, but this is what fighting games are all about. You either win or you lose, that's all there is to it. There will ALWAYS be someone better than you and me, actually there are probably a couple 1000 players that are better than you and me. You do have the right to pick and choose your battles, there's little point in fighting a player who will completely and absolutely destroy you for more than 5 battles. However, don't judge a book by its cover, there are people that have several 1000 matches more than I do and I can still beat them. I've been playing since CT and Jin and Plat are fundamentally the same as they were when first released, they might have as many matches as they do but they're probably against low to sub-par players. 

 

Don't be afraid to take on people who LOOK stronger than you do. If they do end up being much stronger than you, fight them a couple of times and see if you can learn something from them and from yourself after the battle. I used to absolutely destroy some people here, they kept on playing against me, and now I'm the one getting whooped most of the time by them. If they're destroying you to the point where they have to sandbag you after at least five battles, then just take a break. However, never dodge people, play them at least once or twice a day to see if you've improved even slightly. 

 

Personally, if somebody way stronger than me wants to play against me, I'll entertain them with a FT5. There's more to lose in dodging an individual than actually losing in battle against them. 

[Luminos564]

I feel ya, Shigekazu. I was in your shoes not too long ago in fact.

Been playing since CT and I don't ever recall getting angry in fighters until I hit the online portion of that game. It was always the same: I could be riding a little high of some good matches where I wasn't outright winning but it was still favorable. Then all of a sudden, BOOM, in comes someone with obviously much better skill and matches under their belt and just wreck me and my mediocre play. This didn't help with my OCD need to complete the Ranked portion of the game because I'm a weird little mutant that likes getting trophies in these games.

It wasn't until CPEX hit that I've finally been able to let go of these frustrations, mostly in part I feel like I finally found a character I can devote myself to (Azrael) and have been avoiding Ranked in favor of Training mode, Player Matches and the Lobby. Win or lose, I like playing this character and I love being able to land his stuff against other players (and my stuff is limited since I am just now learning him). It takes time for this to happen, and even then frustrations are going to happen. You will get angry at some point. You will get pissed and shout. And that's fine. We need to vent somehow and we all deal with it differently (though, do try to avoid this in public events like a tournament where they might have an issue). If I encounter a situation like this, I leave and go play some single player stuff or read something to mellow out. Heck you could even beat out the frustrations by doing some light exercise (and do your body a bit of good in the process).

My point is, like others mentioned, losing is part of the whole fighting game process. Even the big boys/gals in BB and GG that attend EVO have lost their fair share. They too started out as beginners at some point. We all do. And I think, that's one of the reasons why I can remain calm now instead of getting angry. Here, try to look at it this way: statistical numbers and character match-up aside, what makes your opponent different from you? They're still human, they too can make mistakes that you can punish and most importantly, they too can lose. If not to you (right this moment) then maybe in another match. Or 10. Or 100. Persevere and keep going as much as you can and try to learn along the way. And if you feel lost, there is no shame in asking for advice (not unlike how you've already done).

Anyway, that's all I was going to say and I'll apologise for the semi-wall of text. This sort of thing hits a little close to home for me and I wanted to be of as much help as possible.

[Icekin]

You do have the right to pick and choose your battles, there's little point in fighting a player who will completely and absolutely destroy you for more than 5 battles.

I feel this is important to point out.

In the midst of all the encouragement to fight better players and "improving by losing", it should be noted that getting stomped hard by someone magnitudes better than you, to the point where you don't even know what's going on, will not teach you anything. If you think you've made progress and want to try playing someone who used to destroy you, sure. Otherwise, don't bother.

I feel it's much more important to just play more than it is to bang your head against a wall, and playing just anyone can help, not just better players. Playing against people worse than you, of your own skill level, or above you all have their advantages and help you grow as a player. 

 

That said, there's playing to learn, but there's also playing to teach. I'm looking at the veterans and better players here. It is easy to give bad habits and mess with a new player if you troll them or abuse their low skill. If you intentionally do reckless shit because you know you can get away with it, it won't help him one bit. For example, say you notice that he is too cautious and doesn't seem to be aware when to get out pressure. You throw some blockstring at him, ending with an overhead that's -4 on block. Because you know he won't try anything, you just go straight into 2A and more pressure. The guy will just think there's nothing he can do, and be helplessly lost. On the other hand, if you just back off after he blocks it, he'll notice that and think "Ooh, that was my chance. After I block that, it's my turn. Next time I'll know".

I'm not saying take it easy on him and let him win, but try to stick to solid play and drop the gimmicks, because he won't know the difference.

[Airk]

Definitely. Unfortunately, there's still a lot of "arcade mentality" in veteran players of these games who seem to advocate for a sort of "Hey, if you can't handle me kicking your ass 147 times in a row and trying out every stupid gimmick I can think of, then you should pack up and go home, wimp."

If you want your hobby to grow, you want to be nicer to the new folks.

[Tari]

While this isn't directly relevant to the initial topic of this thread, I just want to point out that actually asking questions to the player you're playing against can help, especially a case where you are getting beaten repeatedly by someone better and you aren't understanding what's happening.

 

While not all stronger players are necessarily very kind or helpful, I'd like to believe that enough of them are that you'll find people willing to explain gaps in pressure, what gimmicks they used, and so-on to you once they know you're actively trying to improve. Unfortunately, for various reasons, this is often not something that happens until they are asked about improvement, so players may come across as more cold-hearted than they really are. This is something of a flipside (or parallel?) to the point that Icekin made about playing to teach, and how many people don't practice it.

 

 

When playing online, this may not really be much of an option, though, which is pretty unfortunate.

 

I'm not sure if that sort of mentality or approach to playing will help with negativity, but I thought I'd just toss it out there.

[SQNR]

I know what Shigekazu is talking about all too well. In Xrd I stopped playing the character I found the most fun to play, because said character was technical and I had a very hard time getting any wins. So I lost my motivation and started playing characters I found easier, who I also got more wins with. This wasn't very satisfying or fun so I started hopping between almost the entire character roster and I also avoided stronger players, which obviously didn't help me either. In the end I pretty much dropped Xrd and I only play it very casually with a select few people anymore, all because I couldn't seem to improve and got tired of losing. Now that I think about it, I find it somewhat embarrassing.

[vrj_rrls_2015]

Don't focus on winning focus on improving wins will naturally come from improvement.

And losing teaches you the most always ask "what went wrong" find it and fix it.

[Delrian]

 

That said, there's playing to learn, but there's also playing to teach. I'm looking at the veterans and better players here. It is easy to give bad habits and mess with a new player if you troll them or abuse their low skill. If you intentionally do reckless shit because you know you can get away with it, it won't help him one bit. For example, say you notice that he is too cautious and doesn't seem to be aware when to get out pressure. You throw some blockstring at him, ending with an overhead that's -4 on block. Because you know he won't try anything, you just go straight into 2A and more pressure. The guy will just think there's nothing he can do, and be helplessly lost. On the other hand, if you just back off after he blocks it, he'll notice that and think "Ooh, that was my chance. After I block that, it's my turn. Next time I'll know".

I'm not saying take it easy on him and let him win, but try to stick to solid play and drop the gimmicks, because he won't know the difference.

I disagree with this, gimmicks fit really well into the problem solving model of learning in fighting games. If you're just sticking to solid play then they'll have a much harder time finding their answers to the problems you're proposing, and will ultimately be more frustrating for the other player involved. It's roughly the equivalent of skipping halfway into a game; you're facing more difficult/complex variations of earlier problems, without any of the context.

Back to the topic, losing is inevitable, even for top players, so you'll need to learn how to keep your frustration in check or use it as motivation to improve. I tend to be less frustrated with a large losing streak when my goal is not to win matches, but rather to win a certain number of encounters. Blocked an overhead? Win. Got out of the corner? Win. Made a move whiff and punished them? Even if I drop the combo, win. There are some people I play against where denying the perfect is pretty much my only goal.

When you do run into that guy who completely stomps you (or really, anyone that is better than you), send them ggs and ask them how you could improve. Even if you have a good idea of what your biggest problems as a player are, they still could reveal something you've overlooked or even suggest a solution to something you're dealing with. Posting this thread is good indicator that you're not afraid to ask for advice though, so just keep going.

 

EDIT: front page article that might be helpful http://www.dustloop.com/forums/index.php?/index.html/home/guilty-gear/philosophy-of-analyzing-losses-by-nage-r526/