Air Dashers Footsies

[heavymetalmixer]

Just as the title says, I want to know what you think about Air Dashers Footsies. This two links have a lot of information about Footsies in Street Fighter, but to me it seems that Air Dashers like Guilty Gear and Blazblue make us deal with Footsies and other neutral stuff in different ways because of all the options that SF doesn't have. If you can give me the information as detailed as you can it would be even much better.

 

http://sonichurricane.com/?p=460

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

[vrj_rrls_2015]

I'd say air dasher footsies is just the same as SF where you keep poking the guy until something hits and you start doing your thing the larger range of movement just giving more options

[Airk]

The "concept" of footsies is the same, but the implementation is much more complicated due to the array of movement options available.

I don't think it's possible to really condense all the possibilities of airdasher footsies into a convenient forum post.  Actually, Maj doesn't even do that with his "footsies handbook" for Street Fighter - he gives a lot of "here are things you want to do in footsies" and a couple of examples, but even in Street Fighter, the ways to accomplish these things with different characters are too diverse to really try to talk about all of them.

Concepts like whiff punishing and feints are still entirely legit in airdashers, but obviously things like jumping are different animals entirely.

[www.keeponrock.in]

The first main difference between most airdashers and traditional fighters is running.

In SF2, the main method of movement is walking, so you can try to get responses out of opponents by walking into their range and walking out.

In airdashers, usually walking is very slow so this kind of tactic cannot be done in exactly the same way. There isn't a run backwards so you might think you have to run into their range and then backdash out, but backdashing isn't quite as flexible as walking. You can only go a set distance and there's recovery.

However, since running is so fast, you could possibly get away with something like running and then stopping just outside of the opponent's range. The opponent will be anticipating that you'll run into his range and you can get a response like that.

While the footsies are not exactly implemented the same way, there are a few parallels and you can try to emulate some of the tactics in traditional fighters for the ground game at the very least.

[Tong]

Even games of the same "genre", like GG and BB, have different concepts about neutral and footsies.

In GG grounded footsies are strong and "air footsies" are less frequent because of the risks and costs associated with staying in the air.

Now in BB the air game is noticeably stronger since movement options are better, less risky and air normals are just good in general. This encourages the player to stay in the air for most part, and because of that traditional grounded footsie wars are rarely seen.

[shadowbringer]

feel free to correct any details that might need correction.

- sweeps are helpful in games like KoF and SF, while they're less used and more risky in airdashers because of the risk of an IAD into combo (Melty Blood comes to mind)
- because of double jumps and airdashes, staying in the air gives you more movement options than without them (although using the ground is still an option)
- the air gives particularly a lot of movement options in Arcana Heart games (thanks to the homing mechanic)
- there's a concept in Melty Blood called "airsies", basically, being in the air gives some benefits:
--- you (usually) don't eat a big combo if you're hit with an air-to-air attack (unless it's a counterhit)
--- the movement options mentioned previously
--- you don't suffer as much pressure as you would if you were in the ground
- the pressure game is different in airdashers than that of games like SF and KoF (and other similar games), there are chains, jump cancels (Melty Blood/UNIEL have reverse beats) and roman cancel-like mechanics which add mix-up possibilities and frame traps/baits; usually, the defender has (way) more risk than rewards, regardless of the decision he/she takes (escape, do a reversal, poke, continue blocking, do a backdash), compared to the attacker, thanks to increased comboability and possible combo conversions
- said roman cancel mechanics can also be used to make unsafe moves safe
- sometimes, even long-distance pokes can lead to combos (like Axl's air unblockables), and it may take people a while to identify what hit them, because it's easier to pay attention to the combos, rather than the combo starters
- it may take a while for people to incorporate the concept of supers not being so intimidating in Guilty Gear (that you change your behavior depending on whether your opponent can use it or not), compared to games like Super Turbo (or 3s, for example), as well as the idea of blocking for more than 2 seconds (for those not used with long blockstrings)
- due to a higher (in average) comboability in airdashers (thanks to chains, jump cancels, double jump cancels, roman cancels), isolated hits (like sweeps) tend to deal less damage (unless the game has a high damage scaling) compared to SF-like games, so being consistently good in neutral game tends to earn less damage for non-zoners (zoners may use their tools to get in to their opponent -- rushdown -- , or they may have good defensive tools when pressured, or they may be more focused in neutral game -- keep away --, or some mix of those three)
- airblocking (coupled with movement options and air blockstrings) introduce air unblocks
- the stronger pressure game (along with increased damage from combos, compared to neutral) reinforces the importance of okizeme and/or corner carry (to the point where one may sacrifice damage for better oki)
- in some games, throws can lead to combos as well

[Codename Exia]

General footsies are the same, but are heavily influenced by increased movement and air options.

[Angry Guy of DE]

Another thing to note especially in BB is that Air dashes get checked more easily because most of the cast has a reliable anti-air normal.  The reason for this is that most of the time it is 6A/B/C or 2C not only has a good hitbox but also comes with invul. frames that protect them from jump attacks during their moves active frames.

This differs slightly from GG where the normals that are considered anti-airs either have a generous hitbox or are disjointed (as in the character on the ground hitbox goes down to their waist or lower).  This can result in some attempted anti-air attempts to lose because the attacker hits deep enough or has a more disjointed hitbox that hits the defender before they are hit themselves.

also depending on the height of airdashes some character's standing normals can be used because of the speed of them as well as the hitbox from the normal used.

Nevermind the concept of air unblockable normals, air barrier options, parry options, and options if clash occurs between attacks.

[Delrian]

Another thing to note especially in BB is that Air dashes get checked more easily because most of the cast has a reliable anti-air normal.  The reason for this is that most of the time it is 6A/B/C or 2C not only has a good hitbox but also comes with invul. frames that protect them from jump attacks during their moves active frames.

This differs slightly from GG where the normals that are considered anti-airs either have a generous hitbox or are disjointed (as in the character on the ground hitbox goes down to their waist or lower).  This can result in some attempted anti-air attempts to lose because the attacker hits deep enough or has a more disjointed hitbox that hits the defender before they are hit themselves.

Even outside of anti-airing, there are quite a few examples of moves that win situations because of unusual properties like upper-body invincibility that can make some pokes a risky situation.

I don't see a lot of the whiffed normals* like the textbook examples in street fighter so you may have to look at other options in a different light.

* - for the purposes of footsies at least. There are a few neat tricks that involve either whiffing a move because it's safer than letting the move before it recover (Johnny 5H -> 5D, Melty Blood reverse beat into 2A whiff), or for throw mixups.