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Caer-caveral

AC: Matchup discussion

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Right, I figured since so much has changed in AC, both for Testament and other characters, that it would be a good idea to start the matchup thread anew.

Take any questions you have regarding specific matchups to this thread, and share your own experiences against the rest of the cast.

Index:

Page 1

Axl

Page 2

Sol, ABA, some Jam

page 3

Baiken, Testament, Ky

page 4

Dizzy

HOS

page 6

tidbits against

Millia

Eddie

Slayer

page 7

Jam

page 8

Eddie

Axl

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Usually Axl its a hard match-up for Testament, because he can easly hit the Webs, and testament to destroy the trees, not to mention that he can combo at long distance. so any tips aggainst axl?

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Warrant the shit out of him if he spams pokes. If he stands back, bait him in with S exe beast FRC. HS exe beast should help Testy's offense in this match, but I've not really tested much with this in the way of Axl. This is actually one of Testy's bad matches in AC. His relative ease as setting of zeinest definetly complicates things. On trees, they don't activate if Testy is hit, you have to go over them I believe. Things may have changed, but I'm pretty sure your opponent has to go over hitomi to set it off.

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I don't think that warrant is the ultimate move to counter Axl's pokes as he can himself cancel his pokes to 623P to counter warrant on reaction. I haven't played against him in AC yet but all I can say is that it has always been a tricky matchup for Testament. He can remove webs with his pokes and even trees thanks to jump S without even having to hit Testament. I think the most efficient zoning tools here are Testament's EXEs but it might not be a good Idea to try to over-turtle him. Maybe the best way to get rid of him is to try to counter him when he is poking to remove your traps... With 6HS, FB GD, EXEs depending on the situation.

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could we just post different threads for each character? when this thread gets really long some players who try to get ideas on how to beat specific characters would have a really hard time looking for it..:yaaay:

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I plan to try and keep an approximate index in the first post when the thread grows longer. Anyway, I've only played a little against Axl in AC, but it really is a tough matchup. In Slash, you could often get in close by running in with a 2HS. It had a pretty decent chance of going through lots of his moves. However, this is now pretty much impossible, as his double hits gives him tons of active frames. Warrant is a good idea sometimes, but like Dream Maker said, you have to be very careful not to get countered. If the Axl player isn't very good at doing them on reaction, there's a chance he will throw them out randomly to avid warrants. Look for this as a chance to close in on him. Warrant can be used safely on 2HS, but it's not an easy feat to take that on reaction. Might be worth it to learn in what cases the opponent likes to use it. Another option is if he has pressure and like to end it with rensengeki. Keep track of his spacing, learn to IB and then nail that warrant. GD is a very good tool since it travels forward fast. You can also try for getting in a S EXE if he's staying back and throwing out pokes, since a counterhit there will give you a knockdown pretty much next to you. Apart from that, all I can say is once you get close, stay there. He has great counters, but it's very dangerous for him to guess wrong with Testas new damage potential, and he can't really counter HS EXE well, making it a good tool to make him think twice about it.

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and he can't really counter HS EXE well, making it a good tool to make him think twice about it.

Tbh I think most of the cast can't counter HS EXE well :kitty:

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From what I've read the Testament vs Slayer matchup is now 6-4 for Testament. The big difference I've noticed in AC is the efficiency of ground zeinest against him. He cannot desactivate them by doing mappa hunch (236P or K) anymore, he would be traped in them if he try. :yaaay: Oh, by the way, if you like your crow, the good old slash throw combo Throw > OTG 236P works on Slayer, even in AC. I'd rather go for BL loop anyway, but this is good to know.

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Actually, the net vs mappa thing has been in there forever. Nice tidbit about throw-curse though. I never even considered that it might still work. @Fragile: True, but I was really thinking about his actual counter-moves

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I also found the Sol matchup not easy at all. All I can say is that you can now 6P>big combo to punish his riot stomp. 6P>cS>jcK>jS>jH>BL (1)> blablabla Another thing I found quite effective is to backdash while he is pressing you in the corner, mainly after a gunflame. But... this is of course non safe. I hope someone will light us on this matchup.

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You can't do many things while he is pressuring you, warrant is risky 'cause many things Sol has are warrant safe (bandit bringer, bandit revolver and sometimes gunflame if FRCed) so you have to be careful and not use it too much. Also 2D will beat pretty much every move you have even 2HS in most cases, Sol players I play against love to use this move in pressure strings to counter moves however HS EXE might be a good idea now to get rid of his 2D. High Jump > air dash is also a good idea to get out of the corner but be careful of 5K. My advice is to turtle all the time with webs, trees, skulls, EXEs and not let him approach, then when you knocked him down go for pressure until death. A great tactic against Sols who love keeping you in the corner forever is to set up a high zeinest close to the corner behind you (but not to close, leave something like a 1-2 characters distance) when you still have the time to do so. It's very annoying for him because it's a space that he needs to do his combos and where he will most likely never be while pressuring you so there are few risks that he will remove it (unless he does bandit bringer, but in this case the net will catch him during the move haha). So yeah, setting a web at this strategical space seems to be a very effective tactic against Sol from my experience, it is a sort of security card you have even if he happens to pressure you and break your guard.

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Here are some tips against Aba. When she’s in normal mode : 1) IMO you shouldn’t let her transform into moroha mode easily. Once Aba is transformed, she had the tool to desactivate your stuffs and make your life difficult. If you stay close to her and not letting her transform for free, you make her life very difficult ! The basic idea is to stay relatively close to her. In the range of a 2H is perfect, so if she didn’t find the opening and transform whatever, you can land 2H>2D>BL for a knockdown into zeinest setup for, hopefully, a second and maybe a third knockdown, who can lead to a VERY easy victory. I think if you score a KD while she is transforming, your chances of winning the game increase by 25%, because, a second KD means she must untransform, or risk an instant kill. If she have a burst, you can try 2H>2D>warrant (didn’t try it yet). 2) One tool she had to make space to transform is her 1, 2 or 3 hit Overdrive. The third hit is unblocable, so the normal thing to do is super-jump IAD backward before the 3rd one. Now, Testament has a special technique against this (Let’s call it “Miz_Erable’s special NC strat” if you don’t mind) who consist to make NC Overdrive right when the 3rd hit will hit you. Your invincibility frames will protect you and she will be Knockdowned and poisonned. Now I don’t really know what it implies if she only make one or two hits, still have to try… ^^’ 3) If she’s in normal mode and have no more bloodpack, it’s a free win ! Run away from her at all means and put all the stuffs you have all around the screen. When she’s in Moroha mode. Ok from now you must keep your eye on this Moroha gauge and learn when a KD will put her in this animation and permitting you to IK her. If she’s on 2P side, it a litter latter than after the bar of the “T” of the word “burst” (I don’t know for 1P side). Keep your gauge for DAA. It’s a sure KD if she didn’t predit you. If you score a BL while she has a little less than 1/3 of her moroha gauge, it’s a FREE INSTANT KILL !!! Don’t go for long combos allowing her to gain a burst. A very simple combo into 2D>BL>dash>IK mode>IK Learn to make IK immediately after going into this mode. I forgot to try if she can be IKed after a DAA, I’ll edit this once it will be done. If she does 623H double-hit special move, warrant is garanteed between the 2 hits (if she doesn’t roman cancel) even if she does the FB one, but in this last case, the timing is stricter. If she make the 41236H move during a pressing, the best option I found is to backdash. It’s an overhead who stagger you if you block it high (in this case, it does 0 damage but she can surely follow it up). It possible to interrupt her or warrant, but if you’re too slow, you will be launched ai air-comboed. Backdash is safer. She is very good into the air. I foud 6K, 6H and warrant rather efficient to deal with it, but the best IMO is air-throw. It's a sure KD into more pressure. That’s all for now, more to come.

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Hm, I'm having some trouble against Jam's fire kick, I can't find an aa to counter it. In fact except a preemptive 6k almost nothing works 5p works on low air dashes but fire kick is annoying. I usually try to protect myself with nets and trees against aerial Jam but with fire kick she passes the trees and cancel nets t.t Any thoughts?

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I'll assume you mean gekirin (the overhead). If she doesn't do the IAD version, it shouldn't be a problem. Just block and punish. IAD gekirin is more of a bastard, but as you said you can usually just 5p if you see it coming, or try for an airthrow or something. Anyway, it shouldn't really be that big a problem for your zoning. The the dash-version can't go very far, and you can discourage it with high nets so she will either get stuck in them or need to do them higher = easier for you to punish.

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The IAD gekirin I usually blocks unless I did a preempvtive AA. What my friend usually do is jump -> double jump forward -> gekirin (sometimes it's just a high dash and then gekirin) that way he passed my trees and my nets aren't usually that high. Ofcourse he mixes those with some other jump-ins and such. but only gekirin I have trouble dealing with. After the gekirin I only found throw to be effective if I blocked it close enough. Do you have a better suggestion to punish it? Thanks.

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anyone have any advice for speedy characters to begin with (Crazy Jams, chipp, etc.)??? im decent offensively....but when i get heavily rush-downed, i usually make bad poking mistakes, attempt to throw, get out at wrong times, etc. :vbang: Any ideas? :sweatdrop:

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how do i kill baiken ugh, i've never played a good baiken and when i did i was so lost, i need a full guide on this sh!t lol

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@fragile:

I don't really get it. She shouldn't really ever be doing high gekirin. If it's the dash-version, it's very hard to punish, so it's best to just block and try to maneuver away.

However, it sounds like it's the regular version and that shouldn't be a problem. If he does double jump gekirin, it will either miss you and you can run up and punish with absolutely anything when she lands, or it will hit you high up, giving you time to punish after block easily.

Baiken:

The first thing to take note of in this matchup is that nets will be your saving grace. Use them as much as possible. Try not to pressure her at all unless you have a net placed somewhere close around you. Just having one net in the right place stops her completely from using Ouren and the K-counter. It also makes Sakura less of a threat since there's a 50% chance that it will miss if she FRCs it.

If you can get two nets out in front of her (it's okay for them to be pretty far away), you are safe from all counters except the P-counter, and that one kinda sucks against grounded opponents.

So ground nets stop counters pretty well, but high air nets are what I consider best for stopping her movement. If it's well placed she'll get stuck in it if she tries to airdash in on you, making her more keen to disarm it. Counter her when she does. High nets also mess up her combos since most of them are on the variety "launch with tatami, jump after and combo".

You can bait sakura with poke > dust, but this is no longer truly a good strategy, because sakura isn't used as much. Still, if you hit with a dust that's close to 250 damage on Baiken, so it might be worth trying from time to time. also, 6P sometimes clashes with Sakura, and 2HS sometimes goes through it. Both are risky but might be worth to try for if you already commited to an attack and can't cancel it.

Baiken's 6P is very slow, so you can often bait her with a jumpin and then do net > fall down and throw. It does however win over almost all of Testas ground pokes. If she starts throwing it out too much, punish with HS EXE instead.

You can duck under jS if Baiken does IAD jS. This means if you make ducking stance your default, you won't be caught by sudden dash-ins as easily (IAD Tatami is easier to punish), and you get a free punish if she tries and it goes over you.

Warrant kabari (the chain). You can do it on reaction, and after a while she'll probably stop using it altogether.

Generally, just be much more careful than usual. Break off pressure strings early, keep her guessing when it's agood idea to counter. Make use of the jump cancel property on close S and 5K. If he gets you in the corner, be patient an look for a way out. FD often helps a lot. If he likes to get in on you with jHS you can get out under it with 2HS (keep blocking though, you'll be at a disadvantage), or you can be cocky and try for a warrant. It's harder to time it than it would seem though, and if it you get hit, it's all over.

Baiken takes a lot of damage, so just take your time and look for a way in. You won't need to succeed that many times before she's dead if you make sure to lay out as much damage as you can each time.

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hm..what to do against another testament? XD :yaaay:

that actually is a good question...

and thank you so much caer for the insight on baiken its much appreciated. another character who gives major problems is Axl.

i find EXE Beast to be of great help but for the most part once he is at prime range it starts to get a bit complicated =S, i find myself warrant whoring more than usual is that even a good idea =S?

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Against another Testament you just have to be the first to rushdown. Don't try to runaway unless your opponent is doing so and you have no way to approach. Take the initiative as soon as possible and pressure to death, IMO you should leave him the least possible ways to escape so always go for knockdown in combos. And be careful of HS EXE and Warrant if you let too much holes while pressuring. Anyway it's a mirror match so besides all that it depends on how your opponent is playing Testament.

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Against another Testament you just have to be the first to rushdown. Don't try to runaway unless your opponent is doing so and you have no way to approach. Take the initiative as soon as possible and pressure to death, IMO you should leave him the least possible ways to escape so always go for knockdown in combos. And be careful of HS EXE and Warrant if you let too much holes while pressuring.

Anyway it's a mirror match so besides all that it depends on how your opponent is playing Testament.

good insight

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