[CT-CS1] Carl vs. Hakumen

[soujiro seta]

In CT the matchup was even worse for Hakumen. CT Haku was bad, you're going to be BLOWN AWAY by CS Haku.

WORSE for hakumen O_o in CT???? It is a 5-5 matchup in CT, and 6-4 in CS

[ZONG_one]

As soon as he heara carl give Ada a command ( he knows all of them ) he just times his counter. If i try to make hit block by using carl..... bad idea he IB every move & still counters Ada but this i get grabbed. If i pressure with out Ada O.o he just back dash then start his own pressure. This matchup cannot be 5-5 Haku-Men cannot be pressured also i play every character in the game >.> If i fight a Carl i go for Haku-Men or Ragna & dominate with pressure

CS response to this:

1.) You can mask audible commands with j.A. (Not sure it works with every one of nirvana's moves, as I only care to mask volante.)

2.) -a.Which counter is he timing? With any regular counter, try not to be too close on hit, and you'll be safe. It will just cancel Nirvana's hit. If you're too close, oh well. Every character can be countered, and it does happen. You'll just have to eat that combo.

----b.If he is counter super-ing, wait a second, super jump, double jump, and possibly even allegretto if you think you'll come down too fast.

3.) Hakumen has a terrible back dash. If this beat something, your attack was probably gonna whiff in the first place.

4.) Play smart. If your opponent IB's something you definitely know is unsafe, don't follow it up. Don't need to mash out all of our combos. We don't win like that.

5.) As a Carl player, always assume he has 8 Magatama. Reason for this being, you're rarely going to get in on him safely, so a lot of the match will be zoning back and forth. The longer you wait, the more magatama he's going to have, and you don't have much of a choice but to wait a lot of the time. Treat him as always having meter for everything, so you won't be caught off guard. Basically just stay alert.

6.) Hakumen CAN be pressured, just have to be smart about it. Shit, if your friend is mashing counter all the time and getting you with it, how about leaving a gap in one of your block strings, and letting his counter whiff? Then YOU will have a free CH combo, and HE won't think about mashing that out so much.

The key to this match is to stay patient.

Sometimes it's hard, but Carl has to do it against the top 5, so you're going to have to learn.

Lose your cool and you lose the match, trust me.

you're going to be BLOWN AWAY by CS Haku.

QFT.

[Akira-Shiro]

Lls im not an amateur & like i said he ONLY counters Ada soo how am i gonna bait a counter if he aint gonna do it. Also if i stop my attack string he goes for some 2a to make me block so just trying to poke him gets me poked.

[Akira-Shiro]

-_- Hello?

[ZONG_one]

Who said you were an amateur?

IB backdash 2A.

Bait with Nirvana then. If you can't punish, you can atleast try for favorable position.

6D or something and then Super jump > double jump.

(it's hard as fuck to get in. Be creative and keep him locked up.)

[Akira-Shiro]

Gettin in hard, but keeping him in is even harder. This guy... his reflexes are sharp, if i IB he goes for a lotus because vivace/ back-dashing gets me hit so im forced to sit a wait for an opening. Anytime i pressure him he turns it around by scaring me wit IB. If i try 2a>5a>IAD> J.2C the J.2C eats a counter ada cant help because of her doing a 6D before my 2a>5a. Lets just put it this way mind games, resets, oki's, & pressure dont work on him :[ the only time i hurt him is if HE messes up something. I dishout as much dmg as i can then go for pressure or a reset neither of them work. & without resets, pressure, mixups, & clap loops carl ends up

[Dr.Faust]

I just want to know how dose the projectil play in this match. Dose it give Carl any advantge.

[Roldy]

Volante doesn't help too much. I guess it could keep Hakumen busy on the ground if he chooses to stay on the ground (and slash the ball to make his...own ball)

Hakumen's reach makes it really hard for Carl to get in. Plus the fact that Haku can slash all projectiles to make his own ball and thus limit your mobility, makes Carl's projectile not too useful.

I honestly have no clue how to get in on Hakumen.

[Afro-Demon]

I can honestly only think of one good approach.

Back way the hell up along with nirvana. Make sure to get out of all his ranges or else this tactic is of no help.

Start up a volante, then do IAD shenanigans to close in on him. When you get within his range start blocking. If he doesn't do anything immediately you can either get in closer if you feel like you need to or apply pressure and fast. If he decides to start pressure/zoning you, even if the off chance he hits volante with his sword mid-block string, it's pretty rare. The volante that was behind you usually throws off his rhythm of whatever and you can start pressure games from there. This will probably get predictable after awhile but it's a good start.

[psycofang2]

Gettin in hard, but keeping him in is even harder. This guy... his reflexes are sharp, if i IB he goes for a lotus because vivace/ back-dashing gets me hit so im forced to sit a wait for an opening. Anytime i pressure him he turns it around by scaring me wit IB. If i try 2a>5a>IAD> J.2C the J.2C eats a counter ada cant help because of her doing a 6D before my 2a>5a. Lets just put it this way mind games, resets, oki's, & pressure dont work on him :[ the only time i hurt him is if HE messes up something. I dishout as much dmg as i can then go for pressure or a reset neither of them work. & without resets, pressure, mixups, & clap loops carl ends up

Akira this haku you keep fighting what i his name? his psn ID i mean

[Akira-Shiro]

KB_dset_93 he no longer plays haku-men in CS

[Mascarpone]

The only time I've found Volante useful against new haku-men is if you already have nirvana on the other side of him and can't find opportunity cross over + summon. He cant slash what's behind him, after all, and if you score a counter hit (especially in the air) you do get enough time to set stuff up...

Interesting scrub notes: If you're fighting a not-so-good haku-men who always opens by spamming his 4C, 3C'ing from the right distance goes straight under it and can score a counter hit. Smart players probably will learn quickly. But if you're playing online ranked.. well... smart players... are sparse.

[Akira-Shiro]

?.? Im confused on this matchup & how it can ever be 6-4 more like 8-2 or 9-1 in Haku-mens fav. So lets get all this down

A. He can air dash knowing carls anti-air cant affect him.

B. He can force/scare carl out of pressuring him.

C. His BnB wit 3 magatama deals 3/4k dependind on the current position.

D. A counter into a distortion deals 4.5k half of carls health.

E. His ability to create orbs from hitting a projectile ie no volante unless nirvana is behind him.

F. Cannot escape his pressure wit vivace/distortion because of his swords Large hitbox /ability.

G. Unless ur using all pro combos ur doing nothing to his hp, maybe 1.5/3k depending on the situation.

H. Ur only advantage is if u can trick him into ur combos that only deal at the most 3k ( IF u manage to trick him )

I. If u try to stop his approach with nirvana he can block then 5C her taking alot of life ( from the lil she had ).

J. After using resets they begin to notice when its coming and evade it or counter it, either way u fail.

[Akira-Shiro]

Can someone plz tell me wat carl has that is an actual threat to Haku-men. Cause i got nuthing....... except Carl VS Haku-men equalls carl

[Zoogstin]

You mentioned a lot of "if's" and "unless's" in your post. That could be a good start. Start using "pro combos," start "tricking" him.

-Vivace is not useless in getting out of pressure, but you do need to use it wisely.

-I don't mind using volante against him because he's all distracted with hitting it. That way there's more time he won't come at me. =D

-If you're resets are becoming predictable, then you need to develop more. Carl has too many resets for some one to catch on.

-One reset would be to tick throw him. Especially if they're counter-happy.

-You need to learn Carl's more damaging combos. You can't rely on the easy stuff against opponents who can kill in 3 combos.

Now at the end of the day even if you do all these things Hakumen will still be a pain. But atleast he'll be a 6-4 pain. =/

[soujiro seta]

Is it just me or does this matchup seems like 6.5-3.5. You take such a beating and too much risk just to get in on him. He will always have 8 stars and every hit comfirm leads to half your life. 2 combos and you're

[Kyle]

?.? Im confused on this matchup & how it can ever be 6-4 more like 8-2 or 9-1 in Haku-mens fav. So lets get all this down

InstantBlock!!!!!!!

A. He can air dash knowing carls anti-air cant affect him. J.IB, J.A beats all Haku's Air offense.

B. He can force/scare carl out of pressuring him. Throw him

C. His BnB wit 3 magatama deals 3/4k dependind on the current position. Cars BnB's do 4-5K.

D. A counter into a distortion deals 4.5k half of carls health. Throw Him

E. His ability to create orbs from hitting a projectile ie no volante unless nirvana is behind him. Don't use volante in front of him

F. Cannot escape his pressure wit vivace/distortion because of his swords Large hitbox /ability. Barrier guard & SuperJump out.

G. Unless ur using all pro combos ur doing nothing to his hp, maybe 1.5/3k depending on the situation. Do all pro combos.

H. Ur only advantage is if u can trick him into ur combos that only deal at the most 3k ( IF u manage to trick him ) Don't be predictable

I. If u try to stop his approach with nirvana he can block then 5C her taking alot of life ( from the lil she had ). When Haku does 5C, Carl should J.IB, AirDash, CH J.B...

J. After using resets they begin to notice when its coming and evade it or counter it, either way u fail. Instead of just resets, try UB resets & Throws. Don't be predictable

[soujiro seta]

LMAO, you're speaking my language Kyle. Carl can't do anything. I don't see how this isn't at worse 7-3. It's just terrible for carl.

[mAc Chaos]

Kyle was replying to someone and outlining things Carl can do.

I'm not convinced Carl has it that bad. Especially since he's supposed to be approaching S tier these days, or so I hear. I've seen the damage good Carls can churn out in a matter of seconds. One slip-up and it's over. It just takes work. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[soujiro seta]

Kyle was replying to someone and outlining things Carl can do.

I'm not convinced Carl has it that bad. Especially since he's supposed to be approaching S tier these days, or so I hear. I've seen the damage good Carls can churn out in a matter of seconds. One slip-up and it's over. It just takes work. Maybe I'm wrong though.

I would say some where at 6.5 - 3.5 or 7-3 imo. Defintely not 8-2 or 9-1. It's just really hard to approach. If the haku is trying to be too offensive then you can catch him. But if he is just sitting there, using 4c and is very defensive minded, lol like you mac, then it is just too hard for carl to approach. The risk involved in getting in is just so much in hakus favor, even when you're in his counters and range can destroy a lot of carls game.

[Kyle]

Seasons Beating.

3v3 Carl vs Haku.

I want this to go down.

Thread would be at ease.

[Niko]

J.IB, J.A beats all Haku's Air offense.

Maybe I'm just consistently unlucky with my spacing, but it seems to me like Hakumen's j.2A beats Carl's j.A clean...

EDIT: It just occured to me that you meant j.IB > j.A, not j.IB or j.A. My bad.

[Akira-Shiro]

Seasons Beating.

3v3 Carl vs Haku.

I want this to go down.

Thread would be at ease.

Would u be so kind as to tell me wat are carls combos that deal oh so much dmg. Cause all i got are his 2D loop, 6D loop, & 8D corner loop none of them deal 4/5k even wit a counter, unless u use a distortion. & fyi im talkin about the console version of the game, a patch was released making it version 1.01 soo ?.? my carl & urs might be diff since u got the arcade version

[Akira-Shiro]

Question if i IB Haku-men can i use 5a on him, i never use this because when i try on ragna he gets a counter hit, 5a or 2a =/ thats kind sad.

[Kyle]

Carl vs Haku-men:

Standing: 5B, 6B, J.B, J.C, J.B, 5B, 6B, J.B, J.C, J.B...

Crouching: 5B, 6B, J.2C, Alle~can...