[CS1] Carl Clover Tactical Discussion/Questions/Help

[Mikachiru]

Adding that.

[soujiro seta]

J.2C, Alle~can is still a Throw bait/low crush.

It still has it's uses. It will feel more like SFIV Cammy now. =/

A suggestion I could make:

If J.2C is no longer an overhead would Aksys consider giving Alle~can a larger Y-axis value?

larger Y-axis value? What do you mean

[Mikachiru]

larger Y-axis value? What do you mean

I think more vertical range.

[ZONG_one]

I think more vertical range.

Yes, to elaborate:

I would think you would have longer to hit the ground, with allegretto still not coming out. Instead of currently when you're slightly higher up, and allecan, you will actually get allegretto out. which =

[feri]

Edit: I'd like some horizontal range on it too :/ but anyways I'd like to see what the proj is like

[Mikachiru]

by vertical you mean horizontal so you can do it in their face and not have it whiff.

But Y is vertical...

[feri]

he probably wants it to beat out moves. Which it wont matter because it doesn't have the Body property to beat out AA's

[4Corners]

Erm... pretty much what someone said... Slower j2c+allecan=j2c>allegretto instead of j2c~allecan. So you'd have to do j2c as low to the ground as humanly possible.

[Zoogstin]

To make Alle~can have a higher y-axis would probably mean having allegretto have slower startup. I'm annoyed by the startup of our current allegretto. I think its best if we just stick with RCing our j2C's if we're too high like DIO.

[Zeero]

Carl = Ryu? Spam Nirvana douken and run? 214214D + damage just got me wondering how much damage 2C 214214D is gonna do which then got me wondering does 2C still combo into 214214D given the lesser hitstun on 2C? if not, isnt 3C (with huge proration) into 214214D our only option? which means 214214D is still useless?

[Mikachiru]

Carl = Ryu?

Spam Nirvana douken and run?

That would be awesome...XD

[Zoogstin]

To add to the negative thinking. I don't think Nirvana-douken spam is viable considering how she has less health. Gosh we all need stop. Maybe this coming weekend, everyone gets buffs.

[ZONG_one]

Lol @ us all depressing ourselves.

[Kyle]

4corners knew exactly what I was sayin. Slower start-up doesn't bother me a bit. =/

[zeech]

Apparently, the nerf was Nirvana dies on a second repetition of the clap trap.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=465139&postcount=114 - Source

I'm curious about this. Is this some sort of special case they put in? (ie. clap loop detected - kill nirvana). Or does the clap itself now cost some massive amount of meter in general, or what?

I wonder if anyone can post on japanese forums to ask about it? Or if we can convince elvenshadow to go to the next loc test and keep an eye out

[Zeero]

I remember also reading in that thread that you can only do ground loop 2 times before it doesnt work. I'm beginning to wonder if they changed Nirvana so that she basically attacks a 2-3 times before she dies off, but then recovers crazy fast. ie: do a combo with 2 Nirvana hits, you are forced to end it because Nirvana is already dead that'd be great (sarcasm). Its as if us Carl players don't have enough trouble positioning Nirvana outside of that 1 combo and now she dies in 2 moves after we finally get her somewhere.

[Eshi]

I can't wait for carl to be low tier again I'm not too worried about carl's viability when I consider the nerfs to the top 3 and Jin, who stomp carl without his infinite.

[4Corners]

I dun want him to be low tier. A tier is fine with me, but I WANT TO KICK IT IN S TIER WITH EDDIE! =( =( =( ALSO Zeero, where have you been? We've missed you!

[Mikachiru]

I remember also reading in that thread that you can only do ground loop 2 times before it doesnt work.

I'm beginning to wonder if they changed Nirvana so that she basically attacks a 2-3 times before she dies off, but then recovers crazy fast.

ie: do a combo with 2 Nirvana hits, you are forced to end it because Nirvana is already dead

that'd be great (sarcasm). Its as if us Carl players don't have enough trouble positioning Nirvana outside of that 1 combo and now she dies in 2 moves after we finally get her somewhere.

Of course we don't have a problem...we Carl players are always assuming that the opponent isn't expecting us to sandwich them....

[ZONG_one]

I read 214214D now does 3k damage. Sounds pretty good.

And projectile is a beam that goes quickly across the screen? Can anyone say Mech-Hisui Eye Lasers!?!?!

I'm actually getting excited about the new Carl.

A little more detailed info:

Carl Clover

Standing A: links to ↓A

Standing B: cannot jump cancel on block, has to rely on ↓B in attack string.

↓C: less untechable time, about 5 frames.

Jump B: great downward hitbox, wall bounces on counter, links to JA

Jump ↓C: no more an overhead, slower start up and still can cancel to J↓↙←C.

→↓↘C: longer range.

* Nirvana's life goes down fast but recovers fast as well

→D: longer hitstun, you can do {J↓C > J↓↙←C > B > C > jc > →D} loop.

→↓↘D: has guard point and barrier guard blockable in the air, advantage on block.

→↘↓↙←D: doesn't throw opponent far away, untechable.

↓↘→↓↘→D: removes a guard primer point on first hit.

↓↙←↓↙←D: does more damage (3000pt), removes two guard primer points on block.

Vorante:

New projectile is a quick laser beam that travels across the screen.

Impression: Even though air throw infinite is gone, the principle of Carl's gameplay didn't change. With enhanced standing A and jump B, Carl's attack strings are quite good. He has to rely more on the interaction with Nirvana rather high damage combos.

Source:http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/topic/2339886/1/#new

[Prophet]

I read 214214D now does 3k damage. Sounds pretty good.

And projectile is a beam that goes quickly across the screen? Can anyone say Mech-Hisui Eye Lasers!?!?!

I'm actually getting excited about the new Carl.

A little more detailed info:

Carl Clover

Standing A: links to ↓A

Standing B: cannot jump cancel on block, has to rely on ↓B in attack string.

↓C: less untechable time, about 5 frames.

Jump B: great downward hitbox, wall bounces on counter, links to JA

Jump ↓C: no more an overhead, slower start up and still can cancel to J↓↙←C.

→↓↘C: longer range.

* Nirvana's life goes down fast but recovers fast as well

→D: longer hitstun, you can do {J↓C > J↓↙←C > B > C > jc > →D} loop.

→↓↘D: has guard point and barrier guard blockable in the air, advantage on block.

→↘↓↙←D: doesn't throw opponent far away, untechable.

↓↘→↓↘→D: removes a guard primer point on first hit.

↓↙←↓↙←D: does more damage (3000pt), removes two guard primer points on block.

Vorante:

New projectile is a quick laser beam that travels across the screen.

Impression: Even though air throw infinite is gone, the principle of Carl's gameplay didn't change. With enhanced standing A and jump B, Carl's attack strings are quite good. He has to rely more on the interaction with Nirvana rather high damage combos.

Source:http://s1.zetaboards.com/blazblue/topic/2339886/1/#new

Finally some good news, I was worrying that Carl would lose his reliance on Ada which is what made him fun for me to play. Still sort of bummed about j.2C and 5B though...

[Zoogstin]

Fudge Yeah!!! Caaaarl I can't believe they gave him a beam!!! I love it.

[Id_asz]

→↘↓↙←D: doesn't throw opponent far away, untechable.

Does that mean what I think it means?

I think I'll be liking the new jump B.

I noticed earlier in the game mechanics section of where you got that from, ZONG_one. It says you can't special cancel after tech rolling anymore. So you can only super after a neutral tech apparently. I was really depending on supering on techs, so maybe I'll have to make sure I neutral everytime instead, if I can even do that now.

I used to low into IAD j.2C to go for mixups, now there's barely anything to work with if I want to overhead while keeping them on the ground.

I'm curious if they made 3C prorate less. It prorates way too much right now.

[Kyle]

3C proration is fine IMO. If they REALLY wanted to nerf Carl they would not allow 3C to jump cancel. =/ Ewewwww that would be terrible. THX ZONG_one

[feri]

Impression: Even though air throw infinite is gone, the principle of Carl's gameplay didn't change. With enhanced standing A and jump B, Carl's attack strings are quite good. He has to rely more on the interaction with Nirvana rather high damage combos.

I need you to elaborate on the 'attack strings'.. exactly what new gatling/links did he receive?

And how is he MORE reliant on nirvana than he was before? Are his normals worse/smaller/laggier and nirvana's better to approach with in CS?