AC: Gameplay Specifics

[RedBeard]

CONTENTS

1.00 General Information

- 1.01 Framedata

- 1.02 Throw Range

- 1.03 Air-Throw Range

- 1.04 Defense Modifiers

- 1.05 Guts Rating

- 1.06 Dizzy Resistance

- 1.07 Guard Guage Modifier/Guard Recovery

- 1.08 Jumping/Airdash Specifics

- 1.09 Wakeup Framecount

- 1.10 Character Gravity/Weight

- 1.11 Backdash Specifics

- 1.12 Stagger Specifics

- 1.13 Mist Cancel Chart

2.00 Character Specific Combo Information

- 2.01 Key/Legend

- 2.02 Highest Throw Damage

- 2.03 Coin Throw Combo

- 2.04 Knockdown Throw

- 2.05 Enkasu

- 2.06 Mid-Screen Enkasu

- 2.07 Enkasu Difficulty

- 2.08 OTG Recoin

- 2.09 Misc Info

1.00) GENERAL INFORMATION

This section is for various character statistics. This is a good reference for how Johnny is compared to the rest of the cast in various categories, as well as a good resource for various statistics that are good to know about Johnny's opponents(Such as their defense modifiers, backdash Framedata, or Gravity/Weight).

1.01) FRAMEDATA

Please feel free to look over Johnny's frame data at the following adress: http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html

Note that there are some minor errors in the framedata that currently aren't fixed. Those are:

2K's damage is 12. (Listed as 20)

2K's level is 1. (Listed as 2)

Johnny's Divine Blade (in air 236S and 623S>S) cancels projectiles while retaining hit potential. (Not noted)

These errors have been fixed.

1.02) THROW RANGE

55: PO

49: DI, ED, SL

45: AB, AX, BR, FA, IN, JO, RO, TE, ZA

43: AN, JA, KY, MA, OS, SO, VE

40: BA, MI

36: CH

NOTES:

So in short, Johnny is about in the middle for throw range. This, of course, doesn't take command throw range which is drastically better than normal throws. However, even characters with command throws use normal throws on defense and it can be important to position yourself in a spot where you're capable of throwing them, but they are incapable of throwing you.

1.03) AIR-THROW RANGE

104: PO

96: IN, MA

88: AB, AN, AX, BA, BR, CH, DI, ED, FA, JA, JO, KY, MI, OS, RO, SL, SO, TE, VE, ZA

NOTES:

Well, this really isn't that important because virtually everyone in the game has the same airthrow range. I suppose it's good to know that PO, IN, and MA outrange you in the air though. May come in handy!

1.04) DEFENSE MODIFIERS

0.87: PO

0.89: AB, RO

0.96: OS, SL

1.00: FA, JO, SO, TE, ZA

1.03: KY

1.06: AN, AX, ED, JA, IN, MA, VE

1.07: BR

1.15: DI

1.18: BA

1.21: MI

1.30: CH

NOTES:

Nice little bonus, JO has a slightly above average Defense Mod. So he'll take a little less damage from everything which is always good.

1.05) GUTS RATING

5: AN, BA

4: CH, JO, PO

3: JA, MA, MI

2: KY, OS, SL, ZA

1: AX, DI, IN, SO, VE

0: AB, BR, ED, FA, RO, TE

Guts Rating Calculation

A= 100%->56% health left

B= 55%->41% health left

C= 40%->31% health left

D= 30%->21% health left

E= 20%->16% health left

F= 15%->11% health left

G= 10%->6% health left

H= 6%->0% health left

S= Guts Rating

S----A------B-----C------D-----E-----F-----G-----H

5 x 1.00 x 0.94 x 0.85 x 0.75 x 0.60 x 0.48 x 0.40 x 0.36

4 x 1.00 x 0.96 x 0.88 x 0.78 x 0.64 x 0.50 x 0.42 x 0.38

3 x 1.00 x 0.98 x 0.91 x 0.82 x 0.66 x 0.54 x 0.44 x 0.38

2 x 1.00 x 1.00 x 0.94 x 0.85 x 0.68 x 0.56 x 0.46 x 0.38

1 x 1.00 x 1.00 x 0.98 x 0.89 x 0.72 x 0.58 x 0.48 x 0.40

0 x 1.00 x 1.00 x 1.00 x 0.92 x 0.76 x 0.60 x 0.50 x 0.40

NOTES:

Another nice bonus. Johnny is very high on the Guts rating list. He will take much less damage when he gets low on life than most people.

1.06) DIZZY RESISTANCE

80: AB, PO, RO

70: JO, MA, SL

65: AN, FA, JA, TE

60: AX, ED, KY, OS, SO, VE, ZA

55: BA, BR, IN, MI

50: CH, DI

NOTES:

Yet again, Johnny is high on the Dizzy resistance list which will make it much harder to get a free combo on him or IK him or anything like that. Noticing a trend?

1.07) GUARD GUAGE MODIFIER/GUARD RECOVERY

Guard Guage Modifier:

0.8125: FA

0.875: DI, JO, SL

1: AB, AX, BA, BR, ED, IN, JA, KY, MA, OS, PO, SO, TE, VE, ZA

1.125: CH

1.25: AN, MI, RO

Guard Guage Recovery:

Fast: PO

Normal: AB, AX, BA, BR, CH, ED, IN, JA, JO, KY, MA, OS, RO, SL, SO, VE, ZA

Slow: AN, DI, FA, MI, TE

NOTES:

Johnny is superior in Guard Guage "defense", meaning he will recieve less GB+ any time he blocks and can block more attacks before his guage begins to blink. He is, however, in the middle for recovery which means that once he is not in a state of blocking, his guage will recover at a standard rate, as well as take a standard period of time before it begins to recover...unlike Potemkin who will begin to recover pretty much immediately if he is not blocking and recovers at a very high rate.

Combined with all of his other defensive bonuses Johnny winds up one of the more naturally defensively boosted characters in the game.

1.08) JUMPING/AIRDASH SPECIFICS

Jump Startup:

3F: AB, AN, BA, BR, CH, DI, ED, IN, JA, KY, MA, MI, OS, SO, ZA

4F: AX, FA, JO, SL, TE, VE

5F: PO, RO

Jump Height:

NOTES:

1.09) WAKEUP FRAMECOUNT

Character is face up on the ground:

Currently Unknown: AB, OS, RO

32F: TE, ZA

34F: KY

35F: PO, IN

36F: AN, AX, BA, BR, DI, ED, FA, JO, MA, MI, SO, VE

37F: SL

39F: JA

41F: CH

Character is facedown on the ground:

Currently Unknown: AB, OS, RO

31F: SL

32F: AN, AX, BA, CH, IN, KY, SO

33F: ED, MA, PO

34F: BR, MI

35F: DI, JO, VE

36F: JA,

37F: TE

38F: ZA

40F: FA

NOTES:

This is mostly important information to know in regards to 1-hit Ensengas as well as timing meaties. For 1 hit Ensengas, characters get up FACE UP. So with characters who take longer to get up face-up, you generally wind up on better frame advantage after a 1hit->mist. I currently don't have the data for ABA, Order-Sol, or Robo-Ky. OS and Robo-Ky get up probably very similar to or exactly the same to their Sol/Ky counterparts. ABA gets up super fucking slow either way.

Keep in mind that 1-hit frame advantage is also largely dependant on character gravity and which setup you use to achieve the 1 hit, so how slow someone gets up doesn't necessarily indicate guaranteed frame advantage.

1.10) CHARACTER GRAVITY/WEIGHT

0.94: PO

0.95: RO

0.98: AB, JO, OS

1.00: AN, AX, CH, ED, FA, KY, SL, SO, TE, VE, ZA

1.05: DI, IN, MI

1.10: BA, BR, JA, MA

NOTES:

Characters with lower numbers(0.94 for PO) means they are heavier and will fall faster than other characters. While JO may seem like he falls like a rock, it's actually moreso due to his frame being screwed up and going straight horizantal very quickly so a lot of stuff will miss him after "plummet" hits. ABA suffers a very similar effect from plummet hits.

1.11) BACKDASH SPECIFICS

*SPECIAL NOTE*: MO and GM are Moroha and Goku Moroha mode for A.B.A.. Her properties change depending on her mode only for a few specific things. I will generally only include MO or GM if there is a change present.

Backdash Frame Total:

11F: JO, MI, ZA

13F: FA, JA, MA, VE

14F: RO

15F: BR

16F: AN, AX, BA, DI, ED, IN, KY, MO, OS, SO, TE

17F: AB

20F: GM

21F: CH, PO

28F: SL

Backdash Invincibility:

20F: PO

19F: SL

11F: IN

10F: RO, ZA

9F: AN, BA, CH, DI, KY, MA, TE

8F: AB, AX, BR, OS, SO

7F: ED, FA, JA, JO, MI, VE

Vulnerable Frames:

1F: PO, ZA

4F: JO, MA, MI, RO

5F: IN

6F: FA, JA, VE

7F: AN, BA, BR, DI, KY, TE

8F: AX, MO, OS, SO

9F: AB, ED, SL

12F: CH, GM

Backdash Velocity:

14.0: MI, ZA

12.5: JO

12.0: MA

10.0: JA

9.7: GM

9.5: FA

9.0: AB, BR, DI, IN, KY, MO, OS, RO, SO, VE, TE

8.5: BA, CH

8.0: AN, ED

7.0: AX

3.5: PO

0.0: SL

Overall:

Great: IN, JO, MA, MI, PO, RO, SL, ZA

Good: AN, BR, JA, KY, TE, VE

Average: AB, BA, CH, DI, FA, MO

Bad: AX, ED, GM, OS, SO

NOTES:

Backdash Frame Total: Total number of frames it takes to complete a dash. Johnny's is tied for fastest in the game to complete.

Backdash Invulnerability: 1F->?? are invulnerable for everyone's backdash in the game, so Johnny's would be 1F->7F invul. Tied for lowest total invul count.

Vulnerable Frames: How many frames on the tail end of the back dash that character is vulnerable for. Johnny has a very short(4F) window in which he can be hit.

Backdash Velocity: How quickly the character moves backwards. SL with a value of 0 is because he doesn't gain any kind of momentum. His backdash moves him set distances with no velocity. This is because his backdash is JCable and they specifically do not want to allow him to keep momentum from it to get farther away. Total distance the backdash covers is some kind of formula between backdash Velocity and Total Framecount, but I'm unsure how to calculate it to get an exact dot count. JO's backdash is among the quickest in the game.

Overall: General rating taking all different aspects into account on how good each character's backdash is. Every backdash in the game is useful regardless of their rating, it's just more of a general rating to give you a better idea of how good each one is. You'll notice a character like Faust's backdash has decent stats, but his frame is also gigantic while backdashing so he gets negative points for that because it's so easy to hit him out of it, so I took those kinds of things into account.

1.12) STAGGER SPECIFICS

Stagger Moves:

2H(CH): 53F Max

j.H(CH): 39F Max

JH: 47F Max

MSJH: 52F Max

MSDJH: 65F Max

Stagger Links:

2H(CH)

2H(CH)->5D: MAX

2H(CH)->f.S: Lv2

2H(CH)->5H: Lv2

2H(CH)->2D: Lv2

2H(CH)->2S: Lv2

2H(CH)->3H: Lv2

2H(CH)->236K(2): Lv2

2H(CH)->236S(2): Lv2

2H(CH)->6K: Lv1

2H(CH)->6H: Lv1

2H(CH)->Dash->Throw: Lv1

JH

JH->RJ: MAX

JH->Throw: Lv3

JH->5P: Lv2

JH->2P: Lv2

JH->5K: Lv2

JH->c.S: Lv2

JH->2H: Lv2

JH->2K: Lv1

JH->f.S: Lv1

JH->5H: Lv1

JH->OD: Lv1

JH->3H: Lv1

JH->2D: Lv1

JH->6P: Lv1

JH->2S: Lv1

JH->236K(2): Lv1

JH->236S(2): Lv1

JH->Coin: Lv1

MSJH

MSJH->RJ: MAX

MSJH->Throw: MAX

MSJH->5P: Lv3

MSJH->5K: Lv3

MSJH->c.S: Lv3

MSJH->2P: Lv3

MSJH->2H: Lv3

MSJH->Coin: Lv3

MSJH->f.S: Lv2

MSJH->5H: Lv2

MSJH->2K: Lv2

MSJH->2S: Lv2

MSJH->2D: Lv2

MSJH->6P: Lv2

MSJH->6K: Lv1

MSJH->OD: Lv1

MSJH->236K(2): Lv1

MSJH->236S(2): Lv1

MSDJH

MSDJH->5P: MAX

MSDJH->5K: MAX

MSDJH->c.S: MAX

MSDJH->f.S: MAX

MSDJH->2P: MAX

MSDJH->2K: MAX

MSDJH->2S: MAX

MSDJH->2H: MAX

MSDJH->2D: MAX

MSDJH->OD: MAX

MSDJH->RJ: MAX

MSDJH->Throw: MAX

MSDJH->Coin: MAX

MSDJH->5H: Lv3

MSDJH->6P: Lv3

MSDJH->6K: Lv3

MSDJH->6H: Lv3

MSDJH->236K(2): Lv2

MSDJH->236S(2): Lv2

NOTES:

This section notes the required mashing by the opponent in order to escape specific links involving moves of Johnny's that stagger. This will let you know how escapable certain links are. In general:

Lv1: Very mashable if they have general mashing down(which any good player will). Stuff like this will generally only connect if they got lazy or really didn't see it coming(which is certainly possible with stuff like 2H CH or j.H CH).

Lv2: Iffy if they'll mash out of it unless they knew it was coming or have fairly fast mashing reaction. If you're facing players with good JO experience, you may need to use your Lv3 safe moves to achieve links but Lv2 mash is still not simple to achieve on reaction.

Lv3: Nearly impossible to escape, the player MUST be mashing like before the move even hits and mashing very fast at that. For all purposes and intents there is a very low chance of escaping something that requires Lv3 mash, especially on reaction.

MAX: Impossible. Even if you begin mashing your heart out before the move ever hits it's pretty much physically impossible to mash at "MAX" level, generally only the CPU does this.

N/P: Not possible to mash, period, even on max stagger. As far as I know nothing like this exists for Johnny as even Return Jack is mashable no matter how fast it's done if the CPU is set to MAX recovery.

The only move I didn't include that staggers is j.H, as it depends on how high in the air you hit it from so it'd be impossible for me to document how safe certain links were.

Also note that all of these values assume you hit the link on the FIRST POSSIBLE FRAME, so some of these MIGHT be 1F links(MSDJH->6H is a 1F link) under the conditions listed, though most have some leeway with the timing.

1.13) MIST CANCEL CHART

2.10) MIST CANCEL CHART

(Thanks goes to 4r5 for making the chart)

4r5: Something looks wrong with this. I'm going to go through the checks, again.

2007/08/15: Ok, fixed it. Red is no-no. Blue is a-ok, if you can do it fastest.

LV1: 12(8F+4F). LV2: 9(5F+4F). LV3: 7(3F+4F)

Hit Level == Mist Level 1/2/3
        1 ==  -4/ -1/+1
        2 ==  -2/ +1/+3
        3 == +-0/ +3/+5
        4 ==  +3/ +6/+8
        5 ==  +5/ +8/+10

Attack ==  SD/MC1/MC2/MC3
  P    == [B]+-0[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-4[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-1[/B][/COLOR]/+1
  K    ==  [B]-2[/B]/ [COLOR="Blue"][B]-2[/B][/COLOR]/ +1/+3
  c.S  ==  [B]+3[/B]/[COLOR="Red"][B]+-0[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Blue"][B]+3[/B][/COLOR]/+5
  f.S  == [B]-11[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8
  HS   == [B]-16[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  6P   ==  [B]-2[/B]/+-0/ +3/+5
  6K   ==  [B]-3[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8
  6HS  == [B]-15[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  3HS  == [B]-14[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  2P   ==  [B]+1[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-4[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-1[/B][/COLOR]/[COLOR="Blue"][B]+1[/B][/COLOR]
  2K   ==  [B]+2[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-2[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]+1[/B][/COLOR]/+3
  2S   ==  [B]-4[/B]/+-0/ +3/+5
  2D   ==  [B]-8[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8

As noted in red, 5P, c.S, 2P, and 2K are pointless to MC at level 1. Everything else is beneficial to MC.

[RedBeard]

2.00) CHARACTER SPECIFIC COMBO INFORMATION

2.01) KEY/LEGEND

A quick explanation of each category as follows...

Highest Throw Damage: The highest possible aircombo damage for that character after you throw them.

Coin Throw Combo: Notes whether or not a character can be combod following a midscreen Coin Throw.

Knockdown Throw: How to knock down that character after a mid screen throw.

Enkasu: How to do a 1 hit Ensenga/Enkasu on that character after a corner throw.

Mid-Screen Enkasu:How to do a 1 hit Ensenga/Enkasu on a character mid-screen by utulizing his Dash-Jump.

Enkasu Difficulty: A general rating of how difficult it is to 1 hit that character.

OTG Recoin: After you land an Enkasu in/near the corner, you have the capability to OTG a character then coin them. This notes which OTGs are necessary for each character. Note that depending on the characters height during Enkasu/how quickly you land, some of these may not work. Most will.

Coin Throw: Notes whether or not a character can be coined after a mid-screen throw.

Corner Coin Throw: Notes whether or not a character can be coined after a throw in the corner, not to be confused with otg recoining which occurs after an Enkasu.

2D Double: Notes whether or not both hits of Johnny's sweep land on that character if the first hit of the sweep lands(Non CH). All characters can be hit by both hits of the sweep in the event of a Counter Hit.

2D->236S: Notes whether or not a character can be hit by a Level 2 Low Mist Finer(236S) following a 2D. Some characters are impossible to hit with 236S after a sweep due to how their frame falls.

2D->236K: Notes whether or not a character can be hit by a Level 2 Mid Mist Finer(236K) following a 2D. Some characters are impossible to hit with 236K after a sweep due to how their frame falls.

NOTE!!!: Note that characters with an ^ sign next to their name means that it has special conditions in order to do the combo listed. IE, they will require specific delays in order to work and are only reccomended if you want to attain the highest damage possible. If you're lazy, don't bother...as their alternative non ^ version is much easier to perform and you only lose a little damage.

2.02) HIGHEST THROW DAMAGE:

SSHDE(96 DMG): IN (DI^)

KSSHDE(95 DMG): AX, BA, BR, CH, DI, JA, MA, MI (AB^, OS^, SL^, SO^)

KSKSHDE(94 DMG): JO (ZA^)

KPSKSHDE(93 DMG): (PO^)

PSSHDE(92 DMG): ED, FA, KY, OS, ZA

KPSSHDE(91 DMG): AB, AN, PO, RO, SL, SO, TE, VE

2.03) COIN THROW COMBO:

None: AB, BA, DI, ED, MA, MI, OS, PO, SL, SO, TE, VE

Throw->Coin->sj.D->Ensenga: AX, CH, IN, JA, JO, KY, RO, ZA

Throw->Coin->sj.KPSHDE: BR(Corner Only), FA

Throw->Coin->sj.KPSHE: BR

Throw->Coin->j.KSSHDE: AN

2.04) KNOCKDOWN THROW:

Throw->j.SH->KJ FRC->j.H->DB: AB, AN, AX, BA, CH, DI, ED, IN, JA, KY, MA, MI, OS, RO, SO, VE

Throw->j.SH->DB: BR, FA, PO, SL, TE, ZA

Throw->j.KSH->DB: JO

2.05) ENKASU:

NOTE: This section ONLY includes 1 hits I feel to be relevant either damage, frame advantage, or position wise. There are tons and tons of 1 hit setups. Please only notify me if there is a truly useful setup that I missed. I also listed some characters several times because I feel you should try those seperate setups and use what works easiest for you. For example, 1 hitting Bridget with KSKSDE can be slightly hard to time. PSPSDE has less pushback and will be easier for you to land a one hit off of.

KSHD->Land->KPKDE(92 DMG): PO

SKJADKSDE(83 DMG): JO

KSKSDE(78 DMG): AB, BA, BR, CH, DI, IN, KY, SL, TE, VE

KSPSDE(76 DMG): AB, BA, BR, CH, DI, IN, KY, SL, TE, VE (This is slightly easier to 1 hit with)

SKJADKDE(76 DMG): OS, SO, AN

PSPSDE(72 DMG): AB, BA, BR, CH, DI, IN, KY, SL, TE, VE

PKKSDE(71 DMG): BR

KPSDE(69 DMG): FA, PO, TE, ZA

KSDE(67 DMG): AB, AX, BA, BR, CH, DI, ED, IN, JA, KY, MA, MI, RO, SL, TE, VE

Coin->KSDE(65 DMG): FA

PSDE(64 DMG): BA, BR, IN, JA, RO, TE

KPPDE(63 DMG): RO, TE, ZA

PPPDE(61 DMG): AN

2.06) MID-SCREEN ENKASU:

2.07) ENKASU DIFFICULTY:

Easy: AB, BR, DI, ED, IN, KY, MA, MI, RO, SL, TE, VE

Medium: BA, CH, FA, PO, ZA

Hard: AN, AX, JA, JO

Impossible: OS, SO

2.08) OTG RECOIN:

None: BA, KY, RO

5H->Coin: AN, AX, CH, DI, ED, FA, IN, JO, MA, MI, OS, PO, SL, SO, TE, VE, ZA

2P->c.S->Coin: JA

2D->Coin: PO, TE

Walk forward->Late 2D->Coin: AB

Walk forward->c.S->Coin: JO(Only needed in certain cases)

Walk forward->2P->Coin: BR(Very distance specific)

2.09) MISC INFO

Coin Throw will not work on: AB, BA, DI, MI

Corner Coin Throw will not work on: AB, BA, DI, JO(*1), KY(*1), MI, RO(*1), SL(*1)

2D Double will not work on: CH, OS, SL, SO

2D->236S will not work on: MI, SL, VE

2D->236K will not work on: AB, DI, KY, RO

*1: It will work, but you must hold back as you throw and time the coin after briefly stepping backwards. Otherwise, it will miss.

[RedBeard]

GATLING CHART

┌ P          ┌ c.S          ┌ HS
    ├ K          ├ f.S          ├ D
    ├ c.S        ├ HS      c.S ─┼ 2K
    ├ f.S     K ─┼ D            ├ 2HS
    ├ HS         ├ 2S           └ 2D
 P ─┼ D          ├ 2HS
    ├ 6HS        └ 2D
    ├ 2K
    ├ 2P
    ├ 2S
    ├ 2HS
    └ 2D

      ┌ D       HS ── D
 f.S ─┼ 6HS
      ├ 2S
      └ 2HS

     ┌ P           ┌ c.S         ┌ HS
     ├ K           ├ f.S     2S ─┤
     ├ c.S         ├ HS          └ 2HS
     ├ f.S     2K ─┼ D
     ├ HS          ├ 2S
 2P ─┼ D           ├ 2HS
     ├ 2P          └ 2D
     ├ 2K
     ├ 2S
     ├ 2HS
     └ 2D

 2HS ── D

      ┌ j.P            ┌ j.P          ┌ j.HS
      ├ Kj.K      j.K ─┼ j.S     j.S ─┤
 j.P ─┼ j.S            └ j.D          └ j.D
      ├ Kj.HS
      └ j.D

 j.HS ── j.D

[RedBeard]

Reserved Space...

[4r5]

Some errors in the Johnny frame data we got up. Ones found so far: 2K's damage is 12. (Listed as 20) 2K's level is 1. (Listed as 2) Johnny's Divine Blade (in air 236S and 623S>S) cancels projectiles while retaining hit potential. (Not noted)

[RedBeard]

Hey man you can edit my guides if you find anything wrong or any erroneus information or anything. I know you know what you're doing so if you wanna add in anything like that or fix any mistakes go for it I'll finish setting up the combo guide and any other stuff I haven't finished setting up so that way you're free to edit my posts to be useful if you're feeling productive.

[4r5]

Okie dokie then

[DumJumJimmyWum]

in the Enkasu section, i'm unsure what you mean since there is no separation "SKJADKSDE(83 DMG): JO" is that slash, kick, jump air dash, kick etc?

[4r5]

I think it's S>KJ(frc), ad.K-S-D>ensenga

[JOFan]

mid screen setup pls. :X

[4r5]

Hey, yeah. Looks like your missing that section, bub.

[RedBeard]

Heh sorry about that I just haven't gotten around to putting that in. Buuuut today is my "I get to work on my guides" day so it's time to make a lot of progress Sorry about that JOFan!

[4r5]

So I recalculated the mistcancel stuff.

LV1: 12(8F+4F). LV2: 9(5F+4F). LV3: 7(3F+4F)

Hit Level == Mist Level 1/2/3
        1 ==  -4/ -1/+1
        2 ==  -2/ +1/+3
        3 == +-0/ +3/+5
        4 ==  +3/ +6/+8
        5 ==  +5/ +8/+10

Attack ==  SD/MC1/MC2/MC3
  P    == [B]+-0[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-4[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-1[/B][/COLOR]/+1
  K    ==  [B]-2[/B]/ [COLOR="Blue"][B]-2[/B][/COLOR]/ +1/+3
  c.S  ==  [B]+3[/B]/[COLOR="Red"][B]+-0[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Blue"][B]+3[/B][/COLOR]/+5
  f.S  == [B]-11[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8
  HS   == [B]-16[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  6P   ==  [B]-2[/B]/+-0/ +3/+5
  6K   ==  [B]-3[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8
  6HS  == [B]-15[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  3HS  == [B]-14[/B]/ +5/ +8/+10

  2P   ==  [B]+1[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-4[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-1[/B][/COLOR]/[COLOR="Blue"][B]+1[/B][/COLOR]
  2K   ==  [B]+2[/B]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]-2[/B][/COLOR]/ [COLOR="Red"][B]+1[/B][/COLOR]/+3
  2S   ==  [B]-4[/B]/+-0/ +3/+5
  2D   ==  [B]-8[/B]/ +3/ +6/+8

As you can see, at level 1 mist, it is worthless to MC: 5P, c.S, 2P, and 2K. Everything else is a-ok to MC, assume you can MC as fast as possible.

RB, I slapped it under misc info. You can do with what will you from there

2007/08/15: OK, fixed it, red is no-no, blue is a-ok if you can do it at fastest.

[RedBeard]

<3 Another thing maybe to add later is how SD after a dash following an MC...that being that a normal dash takes 10F to complete, with 11F of recovery where you can do anything like attack/blah blah etc. This would mean that for MC pressure and whatnot you get -10 to your SD technically so people know how safe dashing back in is. Also plan to eventually do the coin.

[Mitsurugi]

Thanks to AtTheGates, Chun_li1 and POScrub, some new food for thought and for fight, for us Johnny lovers :

http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=160334&postcount=7

Be sure to also check his translation on the SBC : "Slash Back Cancel" (EDIT : it is the official term).

RB, feel free to add it in your first message then to delete this post.

This 1 or 2 frame delay is weird, good to know we can spare a few frames now.

----------------

Johnny section:

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If you perform a special move while walking forward/back during Mist Stance, the startup of the attempted move will be delayed. 2F for Mist finer, 1F for Jackhound / Mist cancel. Since back is a part of the Jackhound motion, this happens quite often. To avoid it, enter the Jackhound motion, then neutral the stick before pressing D. If you do that, doing 2D -> Mist cancel -> Jackhound becomes reliable, even at lvl 1. [Ed. note: see all those 2D xx Jackhound below? yup.]

1: 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P -> c.S] JC [P->K->S->D] xx Ensenga.

Works on: Chipp, Slayer, Zappa, Sol (after jump do [P->S->H->D]), Eddie and Venom (after jump do [P->K->S]->J ->[K->S]

2: 2D xx Jackhound -> c.S JC [P->K->S] JC [K->S->D] xx Ensenga.

Works on: Millia, Bridget, Baiken and Jam [j. D needs precise timing]

3: 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P->c.S->5H] xx Lvl 1 Mist Finer Upper -> sj. S xx Ensenga.

Works on: Ky, Faust, Axl, Anji, Testament, I-no

4: 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P->c.S] JC [P->K->S->D] xx Ensenga (1 hit) -> land -> Glitter is Gold (hits downed opponent).

Works on: Faust, Dizzy (2P needs precise timing)

5. 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P -> c.S -> 5H] -> Divine Blade Transport ~ followup.

Works on: Ky, Anji, Testament, Eddie, and Zappa (delay the followup?), May, Millia, Baiken, Jam, Dizzy, I-no, Bridget (2P needs precise timing)

6. 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P -> c.S] xx Jackhound -> c.S JC [P->K->S] dj. [s->D] xx Ensenga.

Works on: Sol, Chipp

7: 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P->c.S] JC Killer Joker FRC -> [HS ->D] -> land -> jump [K->S->D] xx Ensenga.

Works on: Ky, Eddie, Faust, Axl, Anji, Venom, Testament, Slayer, Zappa, Millia, May, Baiken, Jam, Dizzy, I-no, Bridget (2P needs precise timing)

8: 2D xx Jackhound -> [2P -> c.S] xx Jackhound -> c.S -> 5H] xx Divine Blade Transport ~ followup.

Works on: Ky, Eddie, Chipp, Faust, Anji, Venom, Testament, Slayer, Zappa, Millia, Dizzy, I-no (2P needs precise timing)

[Camo]

For people who are problems to link KJT on combo (ex : K > S > HS > KJT~KJ FRC...) You must note that at the begining of the KJT, the KJ is not activable during few frames. If you imput too speed the KJ, he will not out and you will miss the combo. Just you put a little delay between the KJT and KJ to success the combo. So the good manipulation is : K > S© (JI) > HS > 421S > Delay (3~4 Frames) > S FRC > .. An application for a complete combo : K > S© (JI) > HS > 421S > S FRC > jS > jC > jS > jHS > KJ FRC > jS > jC > jP > jK > jS > jD > Ens

[4r5]

To connect a KJT>KJ off a 5HS, you gotta cancel the 5HS into a KJT as soon as possible. And then go into KJ, from KJT, as soon as possible. HS puts them in 19 frames of hit stun. Fastest startup of a KJ, from KJT, is 18 frames. As you can see, you don't get much room for error. Getting a KJ as soon as possible out of a KJT has similar timing as hitting the FRC point of DBT>DB(frc). The amount of time between hitting S then hitting the next S, for KJ, is the same amount of time as hitting S then hitting the FRC, for DBT>DB(frc). Both are 9 frames. But the timing for getting the fastest KJT>KJ can change (increase) if you buffer fast. Or you can miss your opportunity entirely if you're too slow and cancel out of the HS too late. All in all, whatever you do, practice makes perfect.

[DumJumJimmyWum]

can you explain how the buffering would make it faster? what i'm understanding is that basically there's only 1 frame window to input the S for the KJ from a KJT to combo off of HS. i assume you mean buffering would simply make it "faster" by making it easier because you only need to work on pressing S at the right time. And just to make sure that buffering is what I think it is, it's starting the KJT (421 motion) when you press HS as opposed to right after? Also, has anyone tested out the kara-slashbacking for Johnny? Thanks in advance.

[4r5]

You can buffer in the command for KJT before HS hits, but you will not cancel into KJT as soon as you finish inputing it. After all, HS has not even hit yet. HS will cancel into KJT as soon as HS hits. If your timing, for fastest KJ out of KJT, is based on when you completed the input of KJT, then the extra lag time of waiting for HS to connect is what can fubar your timing. I haven't fooled around withslashback-cancel yet.

[Zewo]

Just about how close do you have to be (relative to your other moves) to throw at the max range 45 pixels?

[4r5]

Take the max range of 5P, cut that in half, and that is roughly your max throw range.

[Zewo]

Just how much of an advantage is that, say... over Baiken? >_> Is 5 pixels really that big of a difference? (Especially with Johnny's rather, inflexible, dash)

[4r5]

That's a new question; never really thought about it. When fighting against characters with less range then Johnny. The matter never comes in to play, at least on my end. From the other end, I get a lot of: "Wow, Johnny has a lot of range on his throw." or "Woah, I didn't think I would get thrown." But if we reverse the situation. Characters like Dizzy and Slayer, their superior throw range is always in my mind. It changes where you can safely stand in front of a character. And this trickles down and affects how you apply pressure, how you jump in or do crossups, your oki, how you escape pressure, etc. If we take it to the extreme, in the case with Potemkin. His throw range is so huge, it's almost better to not approach him at all. Let's just make up some hypothetically situations. You've just dashed in front of a cornered Baiken and got her in your throw range. What should Baiken do? Baiken is not in range to throw you, so a throw is out of the question. Should Baiken attempt a poke? What if you throw her out of her poke? She could try to 6K, it has throw invincibility, but what if you counter attack? Should she jump out or backdash? Now the other way around. Potemkin does some sort of block string, then Hammerfall Breaks in front of you. What now? Throwing isn't an option. Poke back and risk a Potemkin Buster? Jump and risk a Heat Knuckle? Back/forward dash and risk a some sort of dash punish? Throw are pretty powerful in Guilty Gear. They are instantaneous after all. Removing your opponent's option to throw while maintaining your option to throw can be pretty devastating.

[RedBeard]

Just a small thing to note that I totally forgot to add Anji's Enkasu in the first part like a year ago. I completely forgot about it, though it's somewhat hard to do. Just a late jump j.P->j.P->j.P->j.D->Enkasu. No dash or anything necessary. Sorry about that.

[D4Nt3]

Your sin is beyond the grace of God RedBeard :P