AC: Offensive/Defensive Guide

[RedBeard]

Saved space until I can finish this writeup...

====================

Dunno what RedBread has up his sleeves, but what ever it is, I'm sure MCing will be a part of it. With AC coming out soon, a lot of people will want to know what MCing is all about. So here it is..

Ugly How-to to Mist Canceling

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DuMPPotslk

what?

236P/K/S is Mist Finer. Holding Punch, Kick, or Slash will keep you from releasing your sword, this is called Mist Stance. While in Mist Stance, you can exit Mist Stance by taping HardSlash.

Canceling your normals into Mist Stance, then quickly exiting out of Mist Stance is called Mist Canceling, or MC for short.

how?

Enter Mist Stance with either Punch, Kick, or Slash. Hold down what ever button you used, to remain in Mist Stance. While still in Mist Stance, tap HardSlash.

Notation looks like this: 236[P/K/S], HS

why?

Makes your moves safe. Before you can have an offense or defense, you need to know how to be safe. MCing is part of keeping Johnny safe.

why not just throw a coin?

Using a coin to cancel out your normal moves isn't quite as fast as MCing. Plus you only have eight. But that isn't to say you should never cancel into coin. Both coin and MC have their time and place.

[RedBeard]

Reserved for Mr. Beard.

[RedBeard]

Reserved again! Har har!

[RedBeard]

One more time...

[CrimsonDisaster]

am I allowed to post stuff

STUFF IS POSTED

I'm sure that anything RedBeard agrees with is already in the guide that is not posted yet. OH WELL.

basic defensive uses for moves...

normals:

- P - situational anti-air against people who are right over you

- 2P - mashmashmash. Safer move to mash out of tick throws and sloppy frame traps.

- 6P - generic anti-air, also good against mid-pokes like Faust f.S.

- K - stops dash-ins, decent defensive poke that beats surprising things (randomly anti-airs Eddie lol)

- 6K - preemptive anti-air, kinda. Not a very good defensive move. A poor man's UPPA.

- FD jump back jK - for when you don't know what else to try against your opponent's offense.

- 2S - stops dash-ins really well. Great against some characters (Jam, Anji) who can mess up your mid pokes while running in. A bit safer than sticking out f.S as a defensive move.

- falling jS - generic "don't know wtf to do" move. Hits a really important space in front of Johnny that makes it hard to approach him.

- 2H (> D) - mashmashmash. Beats more things than mashing 2P, way less safe. Dust followup hits poorly planned punishes. Important move! Players who know the Johnny matchup will go out of their way to bait this, though. Terribly unsafe on whiff, you are in CH state for like a year.

- 2D - stops dash-ins and beats a couple of key moves like Testament 2H. As fast as 2S with way more payoff potential, at the cost of being way more punishable on whiff.

specials:

- 236P - preemptive anti-air(dash), also beats a lot of things that it doesn't look like it should. Pretty safe to just throw out most of the time, as long as your opponent isn't like running straight at you. Worth noting is that L3 236P eats your opponent's tension like mad if they FD it in the air, and sometimes they'll just run out towards the end, giving you a nice combo opportunity.

- L2 236S - stops dash-ins. Also beats some pokes and is just kinda fast. Not a great thing to spend your L2 on, but against some characters (Chipp especially) you need to take a few calculated risks.

- L2 236K - mostly for IB -> punish against certain blockstrings that leave your opponent kinda far out.

- 236H - typically a safe move to toss out, takes up a ton of space along a vector that covers most angles your opponent can attack from. Also nullifies projectiles and lets you start your offense on block/hit. Beats pokes that get in its way, though that's more of a situational use.

- (super)jump 236S FRC - run away from the problem and throw a line of fire at it. If you have space, this typically gets you out of trouble for 25% tension... or at least gives you some time to stall a bit longer. Also good for staying up in the air a bit longer.

- (super)jump 214S FRC - run away and run away some more. Can beat some things but it mostly just gives you the option of moving in the air again.

falling air 41236H - stops dash-ins and preemptively stops IADs, way safer than TK Ensenga as a defensive technique. Surprising range and sends them across the screen.

- 214D - not the greatest way out but it's situationally good to Jackhound your way out of trouble. If you have the space to, sometimes you can Jackhound to just get out of the corner for 25% tension and hopefully not get punished too hard for it... typically a bad idea! Also good against certain characters' blockstrings into summon/trap (Dizzy, Testament), especially after an IB.

- 632146H - WAKEUP SUPER. Some characters have a ton of ways to beat this super out if you do it on wakeup, other characters have to just block and deal with your get-out-of-jail-free card in that matchup. Good for hitting people out of airdashes from far away, or catching people in loose frametraps, and such. Not the greatest move to throw out (especially for 50% tension) but it's your only fast move with any semblance of invul.

other:

- backdash - Johnny has one of the better backdashes in the game, or at least it seems that way. Won't dodge moves with tons of active frames (Pot 6H and other moves used to bait backdashes), but it'll get you out of plenty of other situations, like people going for empty jump -> low attack mixups and such. Backdash -> f.S is a solid way to turn a match around, due to the range you can hit people at... kinda like a poor man's DP.

- throw - typical throw hijinks, like IB -> throw or throwing poorly spaced jump-ins on their landing, or wakeup throw against people who are lazy/sloppy. Johnny gets some good mileage out of defensive throws since he can combo into knockdown off his throw, and/or get a coin on his opponent, and/or do 80-90+ points of damage for free.

- airthrow - good against badly spaced IADs and jump-ins. Then again, so are 6P, 236P, and a host of other moves. Still, it's one of your better reaction "anti-airs" and gives you space (or a good setup if you throw them into the corner).

- Faultless Defense - more pushback = more space = more chances for Johnny to do something. Since Johnny doesn't have a fast + invincible move to toss out at random, he has to make do with whatever he has the space to do... and FD gives him that space.

- FD jump - for bigger gaps, when you don't think you can outguess your opponent's next move. A bit safer than staying on the ground since you only have to block left or right, and most characters aren't going to kill you off their airthrows. Mostly just to breathe a bit rather than get out of pressure completely... gives you more space than just plain FDing but your options are limited to whatever air move.

- Instant Block - less blockstun = more holes in your opponent's pressure = more punish opportunities. IBing things will give you free throws or the necessary time to 2H your way out of pressure. It is kinda hard to split your attention between dealing with high/low/throw mixups while trying to IB, though.

- Slash Back - a bad parry. Do it when you see a move that you know you can SB consistently. There are tricks to help SB more consistently (SB cancelling normals in their startup frames) but just because you can SBC 2H or something doesn't mean you should try it all the time.

- block - better than getting hit!

[Mitsurugi]

Good stuff CD ! A little addition, quick note about 3H. This normal is nice to lock the opponent guarding and raise his guard meter. Also MCable. With the appropriate spacing and timing, it works like a charm against reversal DP, as the first hit will whiff (so does the opponent DP resulting him him flying helplessly) then the second wil be a CH, meaning a lot of pain. Well, it is half offense, half defense (against shoryu), maybe it doesn't fit in the basic defensive moves. Can act as an AA (or even to catch poorly done cross-ups), but I wouldn't suggest to rely on it.

[Camo]

Anyway, make a 3HS on Opposent Okizeme is the best way to make a safe pressure without fear an opposent strike back.

[Xeno]

What is a wavedash in Guilty Gear and how do you do one? . Heard the term from Melee where it's sliding across the ground while being considered standing state.. I'm guessing it let's johnny attack out of a dash or move really fluidly? GaH NEVERMIND I JUST DID ONE. I forgot to hold FD.. I heard about it but could never get it done.. I did 66646 really quick like I saw in some post. I just figured that since I'd never done one.. and people said it was impossible on pad.. that I'd never do it.. BUT I JUST DID! WOW! Edit: using xbox controller.. am I the first person to find this easy to do? Edit: um I did do it, didn't I? Johnny seemed to link one dash into another really quick. Edit: This is the coolest thing I have discovered about Guilty Gear.

[4r5]

easy, hard, and impossible are subjective. if you find it easy, then more power to ya sounds like you're doing it. dunno if you're doing it as fast as possible, but it sounds like you're doing it.

[Xeno]

Well I haven't even tried doing more then one But I have a fetish for the word wavedash.. so Johnny is my favorite character now. Yeah I think I'm doing it pretty fast.. he lags for like, a handful of frames between the first and second dash. Then I start laughing and jumping for joy and forget to attack

[4r5]

But I have a fetish for the word wavedash..

You should try playing Tekken, and have you some Heihachi, Kazuya, and Jin: the original wavedashers. Particularly Tekken Tag, omg

[Xeno]

:O I never liked Tekken when I played it.. but that was as a scrubby pre-teenager in the arcades. THIS POST IS GONNA BE DELETED

[D4Nt3]

and u actually should continue to dislike it :P What about tekken tag? I find the difficulty the same ;p Also from T5 and on Howrang has wave dash. To the point i can do a double dash with pad (i dont think u can call it wavedashing) ,but its really not effective doing more than that since u will have to treat your fingers after that ^^. Im playing with stick for a month and i can actually use this to my gameplay (of course need more practice)

[4r5]

Nah, I meant that wavedash was pretty brutal in Tag.

[D4Nt3]

Right dont mention it, WGF beeing special mid ^^ <-- Kazuya fan. Johnny>kazuya though :P

[Xeno]

Oy. I saw Tekken being played in a tournament at an anime convention last year and.. it just didn't excite me . Except watching some guy in casuals before the tourney beat 10ppl in a row, that was cool.

[D4Nt3]

Guilty Gear is to 2Ds as Soul Calibur is to 3Ds :P

[4r5]

excuse me?

[Mitsurugi]

Guys, sorry to sound rude but please keep it GG and specially Johnny related. Occasional off topic is fine as long as it does not last too long. Yup, same here, I do like the "wave dash" name and call it that way. Ut seems though that Japanese players refer to it as "Mach Dash", "Mash Dash" or something like that. Xeno, if Johnny "lags for like, a handful of frames between the first and second dash", it is more than likely your wavedash timing is sloppy but being able to do it on pad is goodo da ze.

[D4Nt3]

I ment GG is the best of 2d fighting games and SC of 3rd ones. Mitsurugi is right and i dont like me beeing off topic in important topics so ill delete my posts when this thread finds its order ;p

[Xeno]

I find it quite difficult to do from right facing left, but I can do it with at least 30% success from left>right, and not hitting FD until the second 6 Need me a stick. are Johnny's LV1 MF's safe(enough) on block if you do them at mid>max range?

[SSMugen]

^ most of the time yes but be careful against characters with shoryu's since you'll most likely eat one if they block it. NEVER use a MF LVL1 at close range if they're gonna block it because you'll pay for it with a combo.

[Xeno]

Yeah, his High and Low Lv1 MF's look really suicidal to try to poke with at a range they can hit, but his Mid level one looks fine.. is the hitbox disjointed? (eg if the hitbox of the MF gets DP'd will Johnny get hurt?)

[4r5]

If we're just talking about safety, all Mist Finers are pretty good at their max ranges. These moves got a lot of range, and few things can close the distance in time to punish you. And yeah, the mf's are disjoint. though disjoints kinda a lame term. (but a lot of smash terms tend to be redundant or misused, but that's a whole other topic) Maybe it makes sense in smash, but not so much in other fighting games. Nearly every move in the game has its attack box extend out beyond your hit box. Even if just by a pixel, that can be enough to beat out another move. If all moves are disjoint, then the word loses its meaning. Instead, we go the other way around. We use the term invulnerability, or invincibility, to describe moves that look as though you should be able to hit them, but can't. For example: Johnny's, and everyone else's, 6P has upper body invulnerability. An easy way to demonstrate this is to have Dizzy do her f.S as you do 6P, you will see the f.S clearly overlap Johnny's head, but Johnny doesn't get hit. I guess you can say Johnny's Mist Finers have sword invulnerability, but we don't say that. It should be quite clear that hitting Johnny's sword is not the same as hitting Johnny. Also, on sunday I plan to delete all the off-topic stuff in this thread. so if you cherish any words back there, save them while you can. ()

[Xeno]

Ok yeah, disjointed was just easier then saying.. the attack hit box does not overlap with Johnny's hitbox :p. What happens if someone else's attack hit box hit's Johnny's MF hitbox, and neither person's personal hitbox overlaps the other person's attack.. will the attacks whiff each other? Clash with lightning? (I had heard that this only happens with equal LV attacks).