Pokes/FRCs/Specials: Tricks and Uses

[Zewo]

That's just practice. In the beginning, you don't want to rush it. Just make sure you have a visual confirmation of you actually being in the MS before you cancel first (Then gradually increase the speed). It's also important to note that if you're on different levels of MF (Higher = Less time to MS = Less time needed to MC), you can cancel faster, so that's something you'll have to get used to as well. Don't be too hard on yourself, you'll get the hang on it. It'll become second-nature in no time. As for mixups, Johnny IMO doesn't really have much. It's like, STRING-(Coin)-Dash-(TK Ensenga or 2K or K or Throw) And it doesn't help that all his moves (5H) seem to have massive pushback now, so you can't keep up the pressure as well.

[Xaphiel]

A mixup with Johnny that I try and throw out often is 5K-2D or TK ensenga. The ensenga won't hit if the opponent is too close, so try to have some distance between you and the opponent when you hit them with 5k. From there you pick from either a low, 2D, or a high, TK ensenga. If you land the 2D you can coin or jackhound. If you land the TK ensenga you can RC and follow up.

[A3Religion]

A mixup with Johnny that I try and throw out often is 5K-2D or TK ensenga. The ensenga won't hit if the opponent is too close, so try to have some distance between you and the opponent when you hit them with 5k. From there you pick from either a low, 2D, or a high, TK ensenga. If you land the 2D you can coin or jackhound. If you land the TK ensenga you can RC and follow up.

He has a great idea as to switching it up, I usually use K-S Tk Ensenga or 2D. You also do K-S-HS MF S or MC into the Tk Ensenga. One of the best mix-ups is on okizeme to throw a coin or do 6HS and then MF S or Tk Ensenga. Besides that the one thing that especially works for me is K-S-2D-Coin-Dash-K-JI-S-DBT-DB FRC (near the opponents head)- into either J.HS, 2D, 5D, or Airdash in to J.HS if they tech forward just Air grab them. Also if you really want to mix people up make sure to do a lot of TK Ensenga to keep people on their toes. Lastly switch up a lot of your combo starters with either a high or low to keep people on their toes too.

[Killerwatt]

Thanks so much guys I'll be practicing this to no end. My main goal before getting my mixup down is MCing; it's such a vital tool for Johnny's game and much too often I get punished when my 2HS is blocked or I run out of coins inadvertently because I throw a coin instead of MCing.

[JOFan]

just some thought on jo's game tksenga is awesome... i like to do 2p,2ks, tksenga as the push back put jo at the perfect range to land the ensenga frc tricks: 6k frc... good ol grab/low mix-up in the corner. I usually do it after a 1-2 rep of mist cancel string following a coin. ----- basic cross-up: cross-up trick has been briefly discussed but i find that sometime when i messed up the timing to dash cancel after 2d mc i can still land the cross-up by doing a kjfrc followed by delayed j.s. --------- questions: i saw in some cv that jo can fake a high attack (usually j.hs) into a low attack as oki. How is it done exactly? lets say... after a mid-screen tk ensenga and the opponent is knocked down in the corner. Do i just dash cancel p, or any other fast recovery air normal to delay the jhs so much that it'll only show the startup frame? theres the throw xx kjfrc hs db knockdown crossup stuff.... i find the timing for doing the iad to be extremely tight. anyone have some tips on how to go about it consistently? any other tricks/ cross-up i should know? thanks,

[4r5]

You don't have to do any sort of fast recovering air normal before the j.HS. Dash canceling isn't required either. You don't even need to do it in an oki situation, though doing so would insure they at least don't 6P you. All you need: is that you show them the startup of j.HS, they see the startup of j.HS, and you land before the active frames of j.HS; and you got yourself a mixup. Throw, blah, blah>KJ(frc), HS>DB, land, iad.S crossups. Not really sure what to say. I just kinda do it. I only have trouble doing it to ABA. She has such awkwardly long rising and such a small hitbox to aim for. Not to mention the upper invul on her 5P. Doesn't leave room for even the slightest error. I guess just hit up training mode and practice away. Practice on the chars you fight the most, before wasting time practicing on chars you rarely fight. Other crossups? There's DB crossups. You can even frc it and go in to the j.HS hit/whiff mixup. Same with KJ. I also like to crossup with j.D or Ensenga from below people while they are in the air. Usually after a tech. But crossing up with them gets alot into the yomi or just exploiting people's habits, there's no real setup for it. What I've been cooking up in my head, but haven't had time to experiment with yet, was some sort of kockdown (2D>MC I guess) then jump straight up, fall back down, and do an ad.S (or maybe an ad.K?) in such a way that it looks as though you go through them and cross them up on the other side. The same way you do it in CvS2, with Blank Balls and Psycho Crushers and stuff. Or Melty Blood, if you play Satsuki or Ceil.

[its iaijutsu]

@4r5: do you mean an empty jump->late ad.S crossup? also, i love the j.HS whiff->throw->air combo. i can't count the amount of times this works for me. the sight of johnny pulling his sword throws people into block mode and you can land and either high/low mixup or just go straight for the throw->air combo. i also like to do db frc->falling HS whiff/hit->embarassment..haha

[4r5]

holy damn, one year ago. Yeah, that's what I mean. And, nah, it doesn't work. When people are getting up, they get their standing collision box, so you just end up pushing against them, instead of passing through. I suppose it's for the better, we don't need May to be able to oki crossup with ALL her dolphins. A thought while I'm here. Recently it dawned on me that the first hit of 3HS hits where 5HS doesn't hit. I always knew this, but it never really hit me to use it where I needed a '5HS' that hits where 5HS doesn't hit. 6 years of using 2D and 2S ingrained into me, couldn't see the real use of 3HS till now. Something to think about the next time a Slayer 6Ps your HS (and 2D) or a Sol GrandomVipers through your pressure.

[its iaijutsu]

i was playing the computer jo today and while we were in the air i did jk-js which connected and when i went to do a hs the computer techs out and hits me with a enkasu. the confusing thing was that i was directly in front of him. is this just a glitch or is there something about 1-hits i don't know? i also noticed that my trajectory from it sent me away from him as opposed to up and i still couldn't tech(i shouldn't be able to tech anyway since it's a 1-hit i was just noting that i couldn't)

[4r5]

Ensenga has an area directly in front of it, where the 2nd hit will whiff.

[its iaijutsu]

thanks for the info..is there any uses for it besides knockdown...?

[JOFan]

if u do it low enough u can kinda fake it for a gimmicky grab setup. ie. iad j.hs into ensenga then grab. other than that, whiffed ensenga generally means bad news as u'd be stuck in recovery and in counter-hit state the whole way through til you land.

[A3Religion]

If you come down on someone from jump, do J.p into j.hs and the Hs. will whiff so that you can either go for a low or a grab. The shit works like a charm I did it all day at Act everyone fell for it even my friends that see it all the time. You can also do it from KJ transport into KJ FRC or DB transport into DB FRC into it, that is what I usually do.

[Digital Watches]

I'd actually like someone to test this if possible (as it would help to prove a larger hypothesis), but I think the first post is wrong on something: I think you can MC j.D. j.Ds tend to have landing recovery, this is known. It's also known that air normals can be canceled into ground specials (e.g. Potemkin's backwards slide head.). I've want to know if you can use this to cancel the landing recovery of j.Ds. I've been looking for a reasonable way to test this, and I think JO/MCing may be the answer. Since there's frame data on how long a mist cancel takes at each level, and could probably work out a combo or blockstring that would only work if the landing recovery of j.D could be canceled in this manner.

[4r5]

Lvl3 MC is 7 frames, fastest. j.D landing recovery is 5 frames. but, shrug, I'll look in to it

[Donutholes]

What frames are FRCed on for DB? This is probably the hardest FRC for me to get. I can do it on hit every now and then, but if I just throw it out I get nothing.

[4r5]

hit up the framedata

http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html

the frc frames are listed there.

Use frc's that you can do as a reference point for you to figure out DB's frc timing.

[excelence]

http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/johnny.html

the timing is when the yellow projectile is about to extend

[qwerty]

yep, basically. that's the visual cue i use, although lately i've been having more of a natural rhythm for it. useful shit that frc is. godlike meaty.

[Donutholes]

I wish I knew about the frame date table sooner. But at the same time, I can't really blame anyone because I'm sure if I googled it, I would have found it D:

[Killerwatt]

In the most recent vids of acho featuring DC, I noticed he was using 5P as a kind of "feint" coin-toss, afterwards he'd go into a mixup of throw or a low. I'm wondering how viable this is, because to me it seems that 5P and coin have the same startup frames, so can someone tell me if 5P does indeed have less frames than cointoss? If so that'd be a nice way for JO to fake out people too used to expecting a coin, especially when he's still carriying some.

[4r5]

5P recovers 10 frames faster then Coin. You can get people with it, if you know they're looking to punish a Coin. I use to use it a lot in Slash, but then people switched from looking for the hand motion to listening for the coin toss sound. It'll probably work better now, since the console ports, of AC, are running faster then normal.

[Donutholes]

...since the console ports, of AC, are running faster then normal.

Really? I know that it does in 3s, but AC? What's the reason behind it, and how much faster?

[4r5]

I'd guesstimate atleast 2 frames faster. All I know is that the same motion I use to backdash or forward dash in Slash doesn't work in AC. IBing ABA's rekkas I can do 100% of the time in Slash, and when I use the same timing in AC, I DON't get it 100% of the time in AC. When I get use to the timing of Johnny's combos and FRC's in Slash then go to AC, I can't hit any of them, and vice versa, even though the frames on the FRC's and combos are all the same. I guess to put it simply: All the console ports of previous GG's are running at the correct 60fps, but console AC is running above 60fps. So a frame in console AC is smaller/shorter then a frame is in any other GG. Which is why everything feels like it has to be executed faster in AC and why mixups I use to react to I now have to anticipate. as for the reason behind it? Shrug. Same reason as all the other glitches, shoddy programing? the AC ports have gotten a lot of glitches.

[Kadius]

Just a little trick I discovered today in training mode. You can jump install (or super jump) any ground move of Johnny's without having to MC or JI via combo. How? Simply input an attack while landing from a standard single jump, no need to combo off of a j.HS or anything. Jump, land -> 623S = JI DBT Jump, land, 2S, 5HS ->JI transport Even 6K or 3HS will carry the jump install. I guess the changes to I-no's dash carried over to other characters.