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Zakuta Asura

[GGAC] Baiken Guide: Read this first!

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Almost a year since the last post, huh. Anyway, I've just started learning GG and I wanted to thank you, Mr Hellmonkey, for the awesome and extensive guide. It's a great asset in my training. Even years after you wrote it, it's still helping newbies; yay!

Also, is there a chance the missing sections will still get filled in? :D

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Not sure if the guide will ever be updated, but feel free to ask any specific questions if you have them. Looking at the guide the only thing that was really left blank was the keeping pressure on, which is hard for baiken to do, the best thing you can do is space yourself well when you get them in the corner(which you will because of j.d) and end blockstrings in tatami FRC.

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This is a wonderful guide to one of my favorite fighting game characters ever, thanks so much Hellmonkey. If you ever have a free moment you should add more to it. I can give suggestions, but I'm a noob myself.

I do have a question though. Since I don't have the game on right now its hard for me to pinpoint the question... but when doing the standard Dust combo, when exactly do I stop holding up? And do I need to be holding 9 or just going straight up?

Sorry for a simple question but its been bothering me since I haven't done it/messed with it enough.

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You can hlold 8 or 9 it doesn't matter. You hold it until you have to do a jump cancel, than you let it and just press it to jump and finish the combo. I din't know the combo you are refering to, but thats the basic idea

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Hey, hi. Longtime lurker talking. I'm not exactly new to GG (been playing since #R) but I'm actually quite non-pro at it. I'm actually just a scrub who's been playing the CPU for many years (that's what happens when you live in the corner of a corner of Europe where there's no competition whatsoever). I don't aspire to be a great player, but I at least aspire to understand what you're talking about and, with time, to learn some tricks I can use with my favorite one-handed, one-eyed, revenge-driven, pink-haired samurai. And I have a couple of questions for you:

I've been reading many guides lately, but I still don't get what some of you mean by "xx". As in this post's 2D xx tatami sj.PSD FRC air dash (pause) SD. I've found notation to be my worst enemy in this forum, since there are slight variations in, for example, when some of you use the brackets (most times it means [hold this button down] but it can also mean [optional command]) but well, that's bound to happen.

The timing for the j.P in Baiken's basic combo (Tatami j.P j.S j.D) is very strict, right? It's either really strict or I'm doing something wrong. When I started practising Baiken, before reading this, I never used the j.P just because I wasn't able to hit with it. After reading the guide I managed to do it a couple of times, but I still can't do it consistently and always go back to j.S j.D, since it hits sometimes if the opponent fails to recover quickly, and always hits when the Tatami is a counter. Not the best option, but it gets the work done at the level I'm playing. :v:

This a question I couldn't find an answer to, yet: I know Youzansen FRC is pretty much pointless because there are many better options to do what it does (I think you all got that clear in some posts I read earlier) but, what does it do? I won't even try to use it, not even in practice mode, until my thumbs have fallen off practising every Baiken's trick, I promise, but what the heck is Youzansen FRC for?

And, finally, any general thoughts about beating Potemkin? Some friends and I ran a pretty small GG^C local tournament yesterday (8 people, that's what I call a mob) and got my ass handed to me by one (twice, I had to fight him again in the losers branch). It was the most intense match I've ever played, my personal best game and the time I enjoyed myself the most, anyway. But I had never played a good (not even pro, just plain good) Potemkin before (none of my friends are really fond of grapplers), so some pointers would be nice.

And, that was all, for now. Thank you all in advance.

Edited by 2Zak

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Hey man -

I once heard Potemkin is one of Baiken's worst matchups (spirit juice?). I haven't fought many legit potemkins, but you have to watch for slide head (and the feint) and respect the hell out of him and his wakeup. Be light on your feet. Potemkin really makes you change your game plan.

Check out matches with Hellmonkey or Nerina versus Ken-I, MikeZ, etc. That's how I got started, and so far it's done me a lot of good for Baiken.

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I've been reading many guides lately, but I still don't get what some of you mean by "xx".

The "xx" just means special cancel. As in, cancelling the 2D into Tatami.

The timing for the j.P in Baiken's basic combo (Tatami j.P j.S j.D) is very strict, right?

It's not that bad, but it doesn't work on everyone. There are lightweights (like Baiken) who you simply cannot hit with a j.P after Tatami (although j.K works, but that one does have very strict timing). It's also much better to go for that than to hope they don't tech and try j.S.

This a question I couldn't find an answer to, yet: I know Youzansen FRC is pretty much pointless because there are many better options to do what it does (I think you all got that clear in some posts I read earlier) but, what does it do?

It cancels yzn before the yzn even comes out. As far as I've ever been able to figure out, it's basically just gimmicky. I think I've seen Maruken and others use it to either do really low air dashes, or to go into an overhead (j.P/j.K). It doesn't really seem worth the tension to me, though.

And, finally, any general thoughts about beating Potemkin? Some friends and I ran a pretty small GG^C local tournament yesterday (8 people, that's what I call a mob) and got my ass handed to me by one (twice, I had to fight him again in the losers branch). It was the most intense match I've ever played, my personal best game and the time I enjoyed myself the most, anyway. But I had never played a good (not even pro, just plain good) Potemkin before (none of my friends are really fond of grapplers), so some pointers would be nice.

And, that was all, for now. Thank you all in advance.

I'd say that Pot is easily Baiken's worst matchup. I pretty much always go for zoning in that match; if Pot gets in, it's going to be very hard to get out, and he deals with counters really well. It's also a match that I don't think I know that well, so hopefully someone else who knows it better will be able to comment.

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I see, so the combo is kinda character specific. That doesn't explain all the times I whiffed it, but it does explain some of them. I'll have that in mind and see if I can get the j.K one for when j.P doesn't do.

So, Potemkin is an awfully bad matchup for Baiken, good to know. I'll check those videos and learn as much as I can from them.

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With the recent news of an HD re-release for GGAC, I expect this guide might get some attention! Feel free to post questions if you have them- they will be answered. Have fun with this great character!

As for Potemkin- the key to beating him is being patient, with especially good use of j.S, 5s and tatami instead of her more typical close options like 6P or 6K (Potemkin is dangerous when close in neutral situations). Once you get him knocked down in the corner you can make life pretty tough for him. Get good at 1-frame jumping (FD jump, to escape from him because he doesn't have strong pressure, but watch out for heat fist). kabari isn't great against him because he can slidehead, hammerfall, or clash it without too much difficulty. It can work pretty well as a far, low antiair though (like against most characters). Watch out for his j.H and 2H counterhits. It's easy to get in the habit of just airdashing in at him. It's really bad and easily punished in many situations, so utilize your space instead. Also be aware that better Potemkins can and will flick tatami, which can be annoying. Many of Baiken's moves have low active frames, so because Potemkin's backdash is so invulnerable he can get easy punishes on most close normals if you aren't careful.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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With the recent news of an HD re-release for GGAC, I expect this guide might get some attention! Feel free to post questions if you have them- they will be answered. Have fun with this great character!

As for Potemkin- the key to beating him is being patient, with especially good use of j.S, 5s and tatami instead of her more typical close options like 6P or 6K (Potemkin is dangerous when close in neutral situations). Once you get him knocked down in the corner you can make life pretty tough for him. Get good at 1-frame jumping (FD jump, to escape from him because he doesn't have strong pressure, but watch out for heat fist). kabari isn't great against him because he can slidehead, hammerfall, or clash it without too much difficulty. It can work pretty well as a far, low antiair though (like against most characters). Watch out for his j.H and 2H counterhits. It's easy to get in the habit of just airdashing in at him. It's really bad and easily punished in many situations, so utilize your space instead. Also be aware that better Potemkins can and will flick tatami, which can be annoying. Many of Baiken's moves have low active frames, so because Potemkin's backdash is so invulnerable he can get easy punishes on most close normals if you aren't careful.

Welcome back! Some of us are kinda on our own here, lol!

Guides could use some updating and clarity, but that's site-wide.

We definitely could use some modern matchup threads.

What do you think of Baku->Force CH state for easier combos? Or is sealing Movement better?

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If there is any significant amount of sustained interest, I'll give the subforum and guide a big revamp. For the moment, I'm happy to answer any questions.

Unless the combo using the counter-hit state will kill them, I don't think that move is worth using.

In general, it's not worth going into the baku followups IMO. I only use the one to limit movement, and it's only effective because people aren't used to playing with it. It's not good because you have already burned 50% getting them in that state, plus you won't be recovering any more due to the FB. This makes your following pressure fairly weak even with the temporary advantage.

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If there is any significant amount of sustained interest, I'll give the subforum and guide a big revamp. For the moment, I'm happy to answer any questions.

Unless the combo using the counter-hit state will kill them, I don't think that move is worth using.

In general, it's not worth going into the baku followups IMO. I only use the one to limit movement, and it's only effective because people aren't used to playing with it. It's not good because you have already burned 50% getting them in that state, plus you won't be recovering any more due to the FB. This makes your following pressure fairly weak even with the temporary advantage.

Even though the followup takes away a button? I've had great success just taking way heavy slash. Most people don't notice the icon, so they end up looking to see what I took away.

Okay, so - if I use Tsuki->HSfollowup->6A->RAPE I should make sure I corner and kill them with it. That should be around 30-40% health.

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Hi Hellmonkey, and Zakuta ! Thank you for this great guide! I was wondering if someone could post the basic BnBs for:

- an Ouren counter hit?

- Baku Follow ups (P, K, S, H, D) ?

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Your best combo from an ouren counterhit will vary greatly depending on spacing on the screen, opponent's hitbox and weight, available meter and how much meter you want to use (saving meter for a mixup will lead to higher average damage).

The basic formula is Ouren CH > 66 > f.5s > j.D FRC > iad tatami > and this part will be heavily determined by your spacing. Generally a iad (this iad is easiest super-jumped)> j.S > j.D FRC > tatami, which will sometimes hit them low in the air in the corner so you will want to delay your jump.. there are a lot of tricky situations, but this is my bnb.

If you're going for a combo with baku, I use S baku, which can combo into 2k while they are still standing, otherwise I take the knockdown. If you are going for a combo, baku itself without a followup will lead to more damage most of the time, and I don't think a normal baku hit is really worth confirming into followups.

Edit: Fixed combo

Edited by Hellmonkey

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Thank you so much for the reply ! I will practice that ouren counter hit combo now that i have a basic idea what to try and do with it !!

As for the baku follow ups, i wanted to have an idea what i could do when using the Baku -> S -> X counter, to see if i could get a combo in first before using the unblockable hit. Is S the only way to combo after Baku -> S ?

Thanks again for all the effort in this guide. I've been using it quite a bit in the last year learning the game and it's helped me tremendously.

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It's not the only way to combo, but you can use the S followup, then do something like 2k > 5s > 2d or 2k > 5s > j.D, then take your unblockable hit. Let me give you a word of warning though.

Baiken's youzansen comes out in 9 frames, this is about 1.5-2x as fast as typically possible with human reactions. She doesn't gain meter super fast and she needs it for her combos as well. This means her meter is a very precious thing not to be thrown away.

Feel free to explore her setups, but I'd like to save your time and tell you it's practically never worth using baku followups aside from trying to throw them off or ending a round in very specific circumstances. Practice things like baku CH followups, crossup youzansen, impossible dust combos to bait burst- these will help more.

I also fixed the combo above for the 'anywhere' version, but basically you take them to the corner and loop them using low j.D tatami in the air if you want to spend the meter.

Also worth nothing that the combo from an Ouren CH is very similar to your combo from a far and low in the air kabari hit (this is a great far anti-air). She gets both of these all the time, so it's really worth nailing down those low air combos.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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I will heed your advice and stick to the fundamentals for the real FITES !!

So basically ouren counter hit or in the air kabari => I dash in, 5S, then jump cancel into a low j.D, FRC into 2366K style tatami for corner carry ?

This could be a break through for me because i could never follow up my kabari on air hit before, i never figured out what to do !!

And a second question; What hit do you use after Dust to go into an impossible dust combo? double jump j.5P? j.5S? and then to relaunch i would assume it's 5S, jump cancel, 5S, 5D air dash, 5S, 5D ?

Thanks again for all the help !

Edit: Would Youzansen make a good move to go into impossible dust in this case ??

Edited by kaeru

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Correct, 5S can be used after a kabari hit, or you can use 5p5s (probably 5k5s and 5k j.P as well) if you're closer in to make it easier.

The only 'good' bait-burst dust combo I've really found is 5D -> delayed homing jump -> catch them with an ID j.K, which you can do from WAY lower because of j.K hitbox and homing movement. You can confirm the j.K press and after the j.K you can again bait the burst. If they don't you can jc forward and continue with j.SD like your typical high dust combos.

Youzansen doesn't make a good ID because it stops your air movement, try not to use it in combos.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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If you want something else to play with, try maximizing your corner loops by throwing in as many 5h tatami iad j.D as possible.

These are actually your best realistic 25% or 75% combos in the corner, although they aren't used very much.

This will give you a good feel for the different timings of j.D there are (slight differences depending on when you j.D after your dash, what height it is, whether you superjump or not).

Learn how to quickfall with airdash j.P j.D to extend your loop without meter.

The lightest characters can be looped with silly stuff like j.D airdash j.D too, there is a lot of variation.

Cancelling your airdashes as early as possible is actually an extremely important skill for GG because it extends your airdash, which has a lot of offensive and defensive applications. This is a pretty good way to learn it IMO.

Another important combo, similar to the Ouren and kabari combos, is Baiken's ground combo against a tall standing opponent. Link c.5s or f.5s to j.D, and 2366k to pick them up, even in the corner. The implications of this are big because she can consistently combo from a distance (into tatami on crouching, or into j.D on standing), which she typically can't do.

Edited by Hellmonkey

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You are a wealth of knowledge sir !!

If you want something else to play with, try maximizing your corner loops by throwing in as many 5h tatami iad j.D as possible.

These are actually your best realistic 25% or 75% combos in the corner, although they aren't used very much.

This will give you a good feel for the different timings of j.D there are (slight differences depending on when you j.D after your dash, what height it is, whether you superjump or not).

Learn how to quickfall with airdash j.P j.D to extend your loop without meter.

The lightest characters can be looped with silly stuff like j.D airdash j.D too, there is a lot of variation.

Cancelling your airdashes as early as possible is actually an extremely important skill for GG because it extends your airdash, which has a lot of offensive and defensive applications. This is a pretty good way to learn it IMO.

I have problems with this, just as you mention. I often airdash to do j.S, j.D mid corner combo but the slash won't come out because i press it too early.

I would like to practice using "5H, Tatami, IAD, j.D" but im not sure where exactly and what part needs to be repeated. May i be so bold as to request an example combo? i realize its always different and it's got lots of variables, but just an example to get an idea, please?

This seems really important because its one of my biggest obstacles, so if there is a really good combo to keep trying to help me learn to dash properly i am very excited to start practicing it !

Also for using j.P, j.D to fast fall, is this something i am already doing but don't realize it? or something new that i might have missed? Does it mean using j.P, j.D instead of j.S, j.D at the end of a combo in order to get the last hits in? I notice sometimes "airdash, j.S (, j.D)" the j.S is too late and the j.D won't connect.

I really appreciate the time you take to answer this stuff !

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You are a wealth of knowledge sir !!

I have problems with this, just as you mention. I often airdash to do j.S, j.D mid corner combo but the slash won't come out because i press it too early.

Learn how to double-tap. It's really important for this kind of game. The difference between a 3 frame and 6 frame window is massive.

You should make sure your j.D -> 2366K is as low as possible, and try adjusting the timing and playing with that part if you aren't having any luck. You can also sj.IAD to help.

I would like to practice using "5H, Tatami, IAD, j.D" but im not sure where exactly and what part needs to be repeated. May i be so bold as to request an example combo? i realize its always different and it's got lots of variables, but just an example to get an idea, please?

Yes, sorry for not being more precise. In fact, there are two combos in particular I would recommend learning.

One you could easily start from a 6K 6H to get the right spacing. Keep in mind you can run as well to help fix your spacing. Part of the reason I think it's worth learning the combo is so you go through all of Baiken's useful chains that go into combos.

Those include 6K>5H, 5P>2K>5S>5H, but keep in mind you can land it from other stuff like a late air tatami that lands on them or a counterhit 6K from different ranges, so your 6K or 5S could be anywhere in the combo.

A 25% meter version would be 6K > 5H > tatami FRC -> iad j.D (this j.D will be kind of high, and you want to j.D instantly after dashing so as to fall as quickly as possible) -> ground tatami (you can connect just in time before they get OTG) -> sj.PSD ad SD

A 75% meter version would be 6K > 5H > tatami FRC -> iad j.D -> 66 5H tatami FRC -> sj.iad j.D -> 66 5H tatami FRC 66 sj.SD ad j.SD

I recommend practicing on testament or slayer to begin getting these types of combos down, these definitely are character specific.

This seems really important because its one of my biggest obstacles, so if there is a really good combo to keep trying to help me learn to dash properly i am very excited to start practicing it !

Also for using j.P, j.D to fast fall, is this something i am already doing but don't realize it? or something new that i might have missed? Does it mean using j.P, j.D instead of j.S, j.D at the end of a combo in order to get the last hits in? I notice sometimes "airdash, j.S (, j.D)" the j.S is too late and the j.D won't connect.

If you do a j.PD against the opponent as quickly as possible after your air dash, you get the fastfall momentum on your j.D because you carry the momentum from cancelling your airdash with the initial j.P. This means you can fastfall and f.5S j.D to tack on free damage at the end of your combos in the corner, especially easy against character hitboxes like slayer, testament. The trick to this combo is run-jumping in close enough to get your j.SD in the right spot, that is what her corner looping is all about.

Feel free to throw in any j.P or j.K or j.S interchangably in your wall loops before a j.D. It changes a lot based on distance and opponent, but in general the easiest options are airdash j.SD or airdash j.SPD after your first j.SD or sj.SPSD or sj.PSD

I really appreciate the time you take to answer this stuff !

np

Edited by Hellmonkey

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I would also recommend learning her kabari combos.

meterless: kabari > followup > sj9.D | sj9.SD | sj9.PSD

50%+: kabari > followup FRC > 66 sj7.D FRC > 2366k > sj.D (midscreen) | sj.SD | j.H j.tatami > take them to the corner or finish loop

The followup FRC cuts out the extra prorated second hit. You get some invincibility, this is one of my favorite uses of meter since it can be good on hit (combo) or block (bait and safe).

Also you do not always need or want to do your airdash tatami with 2366K. It can almost always be done with 66236K if your hands are fast enough (I prefer this method sometimes, especially higher up, since you can delay your mat to whenever you want it and not have to worry about losing your buffer)

Edited by Hellmonkey

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Wow - So much I don't know about this game and then have to go practice little things just to understand them.

Hellmonkey - can you make a list out of those small techniques? When I looked up basics guide - a lot of those techniques were not in there.

Like, I don't even understand fastfall. Isn't even in the basics guide. Stuff like that. I pretty much read a basics guide played with FD braking and other things listed, started copying Nerina, looked at some guides, and here I am.

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I just explained fastfall in the previous post with 5H tatami loops, and included the combos using them. I don't understand what else you're asking for.

You cancel your airdash momentum with j.D and it makes you fall faster. It can be done after a tatami with a raw airdash j.D or with a quick j.PD after airdashing.

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