GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

[Diveman]

ok since caer did Testament, i`ll do:

Venom

pros:

+ With the right ball formation he can be very annoying

+ He has many different ball formations (5), and you can use them to attack, to defend, to pressure, to cover your rushdown, etc)

+ Venom is still one of the best pressurers and zoners in the game

+ 5H now staggers on any hit, also is the only poke that allow venom to connect Dubious Curv in a combo

+ 6H now bounces...and still causes knockdown

+ Dubie Curv has a sliding effect (easier DC loop in the corner), and its recovery can be canceled into Ball summon

+ Now venom gets really scary when he throws you (he can summon 2/3 balls in the process and still get a knockdown)

+ Carcass Raid can be charged adding another useful tool to his pressure game

+ His sweep its better now (not as good as in #R, but better than in Slash at least) it seems to have his old range back, but its still slower than his #R 2D

+ His new 6P its a decent anti-air, it chains into 6H for knockdown or some nice combos

+ FB Mad struggle is excelent, really fast overhead if TKed and gives a very big bounce wich you can follow with a combo

+ FB Double Head Morbid gives a knockdown, its faster and has more hits, good combo ender.

+ Dark Angel its faster so its not so easy to escape from it now

+ Dubious Curv its a Lv 6 attack now, so its safer than before on block (though still kinda risky to throw it outside a combo)

cons:

- He has problems with fast characters that can interrupt or escape his ball formations and punish him (millia, chipp, jam)

- Stinger Aim FRC changed, now its a bit later.

- Red Hail is still a not so good OD

- He cant do much without his balls in many cases

- Hard character to master, you have to master the charging system

- Need space to create a ball formation, and several characters can punish this (testament, chipp, ky)

[vegta12]

Ino Advantages -Having a hover dash is great way to confuse people on weather to block high or low. - She has average damage, not too high but not too low. - Good Pressure Since you are able to mix up moves. - Horizontal Chemical Love is great against tall people - Notes are a great tool and she has two versions of them. One fast and one slow. - FRC throw Cons - Requires tension to do good combos and damage - Her learning curve is somewhat harder compared to other characters but doesnt pay off as much as lets say eddie. - She doesnt have a great way of dealing with pressure. - Depending on the character you face you can expect a move to be somewhat useless. Example is many people able to run under a HCL and Johnny being able to stop you doing the stroke the big tree move 100% of the time. - Characters with great wake-up moves example Sol destroys her pressure. Lol it just came to me Ive been using Ino for so long now and it was a lot harder coming up with advantages than disadvantages.Axl is my other main with Ino and I could tell u left and right ;(. ill probably edit my list later for her

[Spirit Juice]

SOL BADGUY

Pros:

+ Sidewinder (air 236H) combos do decent to huge amounts of damage. Even combos starting from 2K or command grab can do 40-50% damage or more depending on the character.

+ 5K makes good anti air against most jump-ins.

+ 5K is the fastest normal in the game (tied with Jam's 5P).

+ Good mix up and throw game/throw baits. He can be very scary when close up and has meter to do Gunflame (236P) FRC. There are various tick throw, throw bait, and CH bait strings he can do. This becomes even more effective in the corner with an unpredictable Bandit Revolver (236K) able to knock down potential jumps for escape.

+ Sidewinder combos can be done anywhere on the screen for decent to good damage, making his abare good.

+ His air throw causes knockdown and be combo'd off of if it's low enough to the ground.

+ CH on many of his specials and normals can lead to big damage combos. Some normals include 2D, 6P, 5H, and j.D. Some specials include Riot Stomp (214K), Gunflame, Bandit Bringer (236[K]), Volcanic Viper (2nd hit only, 623S or H), and Fafnir (41236D).

+ Can score knockdown on any air combo in most cases by doing Volcanic Viper + knockdown.

+ Volcanic Viper is THE best uppercut in the game. It has a lot of invincibility and has a knockdown as well. The first hit is grounded and can be RC'd to make it safe on wake-up if blocked or launch the opponent into the air to start up SW combos. RCing VV on block is also a useful tick throw set up or a way to set up a pressure string.

+ Grand Viper (214S) can lead to big damage combos on clean hit.

+ Gunflame FRC is a great tool for Sol to get in as it can protect him from long pokes as he closes in. It's also good for continuing pressure strings and useful in certain combos.

Cons:

- All of Sol's big damage combos come from Sidewinder loop, meaning all of his big combos need to be done in the air. While his abare is generally good, Sol's options in getting his opponent on the air are limited and usually require 25-50% meter, a CH of some sort, an anti-air, or a command grab. Compared to other characters that can get decent to high damage combos with little meter expenditure, this puts him damage options lower compared to top tier characters.

- All of Sol's special moves (except Fafnir) are easily telegraphed and are often punishable on block or can even be anti-aired with a well timed 6P by characters. In general, they can be high risk/low reward when used outside of combos unless FRC'd.

- Weak high/low game. There can be certain instances where Sol can make use of a high/low game, but these high/low games can only lead to damaging combos in the corner in most cases.

- Sol's best pokes, S(f), 5H, and 2S are weak compared to a lot of other characters' pokes/normals. They are often stuffed by many, better pokes/normals by a multitude of characters.

- In relation to the above con, Sol's most effective range is up close and often has trouble getting in on many of the characters in the game. As such, he has several unfavorable match ups in the game.

- Only has a Guts rating of 1.

- Fafnir is a great move, but now costs 25% tension to use.

- 2K-6P does no longer combo, which is arguably his biggest nerf in Accent Core. It hurts his mix up and combos by a noticable amount.

General summary: Sol remains a solid character in Accent Core and has a lot of pros that make him a solid character, but his cons weigh heavily against him. While he remains solid all around, Sol's biggest flaw is that he has nothing about him that makes him "broken" or stand out compared to the S and A rank characters.

[rtl42]

even though default damage modifier isn't a pro, i don't see how that makes it a con -- wouldn't it be a con if it were > 1.0 modifier?

[RoBoBOBR]

-Zappa has 2nd best BD? How come? I thought Pot's (more invulnerability frames, allowing to outlast even very prolonging moves) and Sl's (JCable) are better.

[Jet Set Dizzy]

-Zappa has 2nd best BD? How come? I thought Pot's (more invulnerability frames, allowing to outlast even very prolonging moves) and Sl's (JCable) are better.

zappas is very invincable like pots but not to as much as an extent and AFAIK considered the 2nd best in the game after pots. slayers BD has had the invincibilty lowered with every revision.

[4r5]

Both PO's and ZA's dackdashes have only 1 frame of vulnerability, at the end. PO's backdash last longer, which gives him more invulnerability frames. But a longer backdash can be both a good and a bad thing. But PO got PoteBust, so let's make it simple and say he has the best backdash.

[Digital Watches]

even though default damage modifier isn't a pro, i don't see how that makes it a con -- wouldn't it be a con if it were > 1.0 modifier?

You'd think that, but it really seems like it would matter is averages. The "default" is arbitrary.

However, the mean is 1.04 (Closest to Ky, whose defence modifier is 1.03), which makes Sol's modifier better than the majority of characters in the game. Technically, he's tied for 6th best defense in the game, along with Faust, Johnny, Testament, and Zappa. So really, it should be a plus (Relatively speaking.) He falls in the top ten of twenty-three characters for defense modifier.

His guts rating of one... well... the mean is 1.91. The majority of characters have better guts. Sol is ahead of only six characters, and tied with four (Axl, I-No, Dizzy, and Venom). This puts him ever-so-slightly on the low end of the guts scale (In the bottom eleven of 23 characters)... buuuut not really significantly enough to be a con in my opinion.

[Villainous]

Alright, here's my input, take it or leave it:

SLAYER

+ Improved combo-ability with the addition of link heavy game play.

+ High damage combos off of almost any hit.

+ Reduced use of tension to get said high damage combos.

+ Increased untechable time on j.D, leading to oki at the end of all air combos.

+ Excellent Okizeme.

+ Punishes moves effectively with new force break.

+ Good pokes and zoning, controls space effectively.

+ Relatively safe outside of specials.

+ Longer untechable time on the majority of his move list.

+ 5P, 2S, 6H, 6P all incredible anti air leading to high damage combos. Hard to approach slayer from the air.

+ 2H launches on normal hit now, combos from 2K and can be followed up with BBU or other moves depending on range.

+ Possible to combo mappa punches on air hits into air combos now, useful with the addition of wall sticks and slides, both having "in the air" properties.

+ Has a 0 frame super after activation that leads to 100% combos on CH vs. many characters.

+ Easier 2 hit DHD setups with the addition of j.S vacuum.

+ Unique back and forward dash are both cancelable by special or jump, and can be used to escape certain situations.

+ New force breaks allow for safe pile bunkers and an almost instant upper body invincibility launcher with good range.

- Has trouble under pressure, but offsets this by being able to turn almost all random hits into damage.

- Relatively unsafe after many of his specials.

[Digital Watches]

Both PO's and ZA's dackdashes have only 1 frame of vulnerability, at the end. PO's backdash last longer, which gives him more invulnerability frames. But a longer backdash can be both a good and a bad thing.

But PO got PoteBust, so let's make it simple and say he has the best backdash.

Also, the fact that Zappa's backdash only has one frame of recovery, combined with being quicker than Pot's, means that he can backdash multiple times quickly with minimal vulnerability and good distance coverage.

[4r5]

It's not that Zappa has 1 frame of recovery. Backdashes are technicly all recovery. He just has less frames in his backdash. (11 compared to 21) Pote can cover the same amount of distance, but with less exposed frames.

[Spirit Juice]

Took out the con about defense rating, but left the con about Guts rating in. No matter how you look at it, average or not, a Guts rating of 1 sucks. It's not a huge con, but it's just something that should be on the list because it puts him at a disadvantage compared to a majority of the cast which has higher.

[Digital Watches]

It's not that Zappa has 1 frame of recovery. Backdashes are technicly all recovery. He just has less frames in his backdash. (11 compared to 21) Pote can cover the same amount of distance, but with less exposed frames.

Er... Not really. Zappa's backdash velocity is 14, compared to Potemkin's 3.5. I'm not arguing that Zappa's backdash is better (Backdash+Pot buster is too good), but it definitely covers more distance in the same amount of time, and also leaves him the option of doing something else after one backdash of 11 frames instead of 21.

Took out the con about defense rating, but left the con about Guts rating in. No matter how you look at it, average or not, a Guts rating of 1 sucks. It's not a huge con, but it's just something that should be on the list because it puts him at a disadvantage compared to a majority of the cast which has higher.

This majority being comprised of 12 characters, exactly one more character than has an equal or lesser guts rating than Sol (Including Sol), and therefore the smallest possible majority. I'm not saying it's not a SLIGHT disadvantage statistically, but it doesn't seem significant enough to mention as one.

[CJay]

stuff

You think Cross up dandy is good enough to be a pro? (Not meant to come off negatively just how it sounds.) I think it's kinda gimmicky, very telegraphed, and easily throw punishable too. His improved knockdown ability can also be solely attributed to increased untechable time on j.D. Also 0 frame super is inaccurate it's got a 7 frame startup and what makes it so good is the inability to do anything during the first active frame. I'm sorry though I'm a nitpicking bastard so just take that with a grain of salt.

Notable things to add though: DHD setups significantly easier due to j.S vacuum effect. Every single normal is fucking good.

[Digital Watches]

OH, and as long as I'm posting here, one more Axl thing -Axl has a difficult time gaining meter in some cases (Though it varies between matchups). Defensive play doesn't have him moving forward much, and while on the offensive, Axl tends to be using FRCs and the like, meaning his meter gain will be severely limited.

[Villainous]

Yeah, S dandy on wake up isn't that great but I just thought I'd throw it in there Maybe I'll take that out and just put strong oki. Also when I say DOT is 0 frames, after the super flash, there's no frames where you can go OH SHIT SUPER and start blocking, if the initial hitbox of the move would hit you. So if they're running at you and you throw it out, they're fucked unless they anticipate that and FDC their run. So if not 0 frame super then I dunno what to call it. I'll add the info on DHD.

[Wirya]

Slayer has the best backdash ever, obviously. Better than Potemkin's or anyone else. And I'm not sure having trouble under pressure can be listed as one of Slayer's negative side. Every characters who doesn't have a dragon punch or anything like that is guaranteed to have trouble dealing with pressures. So, it's not just Slayer, IMO. Slayer is lucky he still has his awesome backdash, it's similar to dragon punch, one way or another.

[RoBoBOBR]

what makes it so good is the inability to do anything till the first active frame.

inability to do anything DURING first active frame. Opponent can do whatever during start-up.

[Villainous]

Added the backdash and forward dash stuff. I really don't think his backdash is that amazing anymore. It's jump cancelable but since the invincibility frames don't carry over as long, it's not so great for escaping pressure now. But, it works sometimes so I guess it's worth adding, maybe you guys use it more effectively than I do. Otherwise, things look good? Anything else to add?

[Cyringohn]

To add to the conversation: Zappa probably also has the fastest backdash in the game. Can't think of any characters that can backdash to the edge of the screen as fast as he can.

[Zoogstin]

To add to the conversation: Zappa probably also has the fastest backdash in the game. Can't think of any characters that can backdash to the edge of the screen as fast as he can.

That's because no one can. He has the out right fastest backdash in the game which is one of the reason's why its considered one of the best BD in the game as mentioned by other people.

Also would a pro be that he also has the highest jumps in the game (I think tied with ABA)?

[AKA]

That's because no one can.

Millia can. Her backdash is technically better than Zappa's in this game because of the distance it covers. All the way up through Slash, their backdashes covered the same distance. Now, hers actually travels farther (not by much though). In any case, for all intents and purposes, their backdashes are actually identical.

Slayer's is better for safety, Potemkin's is better for invincibility (lasts longer than Slayer's now) and, and is better for setting up whiff punishments (PB). Robo actually has a better backdash than Ky (the invincibility lasts slightly longer on Robo's), surprisingly.

Also, Millia's HS Disc FRC is still awesome. By using only the FB disc in oki situations, you're actually limiting your mixup potential. For someone who negates her guard building ability (32 on FB Disc, leads to lots of 60-65% combos) by using FD, the HS Disc becomes useful again as you'll need to initiate the hit with the disc itself, giving you comparable damage for tricks more difficult to see than the standard FB Disc options. Just some thoughts.

Et Cetera:

I-no

Pros:

+ Awesome mixup and damage potential.

+ Backdash is more invincible than before.

+ S Dive creates tensionless combo-extenders from midscreen, and allows a fairly safe instant overhead for great damage.

+ K Dive now groundslides on CH, enabling much easier 5H combos than in Slash.

+ Slower P note and faster H note provide a full-screen zoning mixup that makes her harder to approach than before.

+ S Stroke now floats on normal hit, creating an awesome tech-guessing game, and on CH floats for around 215-225 damage.

+ Added FRC point on the beginning of H stroke allows faster mixups than before, creating more openings for high damage and more openings for S stroke to connect.

+ j.H hits down at a spike, allowing "instant j.H" combos after launch that knockdown and provide great note coverage.

+ Sweep has further coverage, better float into HCL for added comboability.

+ Low hitting 2S

+ Excellent frame-traps and high damage

+ Great ways to escape pressure via her two supers

+ Throw now builds tension at a rate of 4.0

Cons:

- The new note speeds also backfire, removing several post-throw mixup options that she had in Slash (sometimes they were round-ending).

- No guard guage build on projectiles hurts her more than any other character in the game, removing round-ending damage from Slash.

- Simultaneously, her damage was toned down overall, with certain moves receiving 7-15 point downgrades in damage across the board.

- Horrible DAA

- Tallest hitbox while crouching for a lightweight/girl character.

- Poor mobility for such a mixup ortiented character. Easier to catch due to high recovery normals and specials, forcing her to stay close to the ground.

- Situational special moves and normals forces I-no to condition her opponents more than they have to condition her.

- Because of the aforementioned, risk/reward is often not in her favor due to iffy frametraps.

- Without tension AND some sort of hole and predicted attack, she has very little ways out of pressure.

- Very poor position to win the match if she doesn't gain control quickly.

- Forced to fight in a fight or flight situation, or she risks surrendering control of the match in many cases.

[Koozebanian Fazoob]

Dustloop is being an ass and not allowing editing of the fuck-giant Zappa post, so if a mod can somehow add this, that'd be nice.

Use the 'Go Advanced' button. For some reason the AJAX based quick reply/edit is terrible with large posts. I blame the server. :I

Still a work in progress...

Pothumpkin

Pros:

+ Big ol' damage on pokes, good damage on combos. Combos generally leave you in a good position to continue pressure.

+ One of the best command throws in the game. Big damage, huge range, fast startup, builds a lot of tension, and has an FRC point for extra damage.

+ Huge range on attacks. 6P, 2H, HS, f.S, 2D ... tons of good pokes all around.

+ Slide head. Used for unblockables, now gives you free decent damage combos.

+ Heat Knuckle without extend gives you a free perfect setup for additional mixups, as well as a ton of tension.

+ Tools for many situations... FDB to beat projectiles, Hammerfall to eat 1 hit and travel forwards, Judge Gauntlet to eat multiple hits, Backdash for good evasion and invincibility, Giganter as wakeup.

+ Takes very little damage from anyone.

+ Combo off Dead Angle... much more useful than it sounds.

Cons:

- Predictable. Has to rely on playing more solidly than the other person. Has to play very patiently at times.

- Huge, clumsy, and difficult to maneuver in general. Gives him a hard time with avoiding traps and setups and such. Also gives lots of character specific combos and rushdowns against him.

- No Dragon Punch. Giganter uses 50%, and that's generally the best option.

- Megafist still sucks.

- Backdash is SLOW. You can reaction it easily, which is a big problem.

[furix]

Here is my take on A.B.A, it's mostly really obvious, but probably not so obvious to people that don't play her/know about her. A.B.A Pros: + Big Damage from pretty much any random hit + Ability to fill the opponent's Guard Bar is unmatched + Double Keystab combos allow you to keep your bloodpacks longer + All of her Force Breaks are useful + Unblockable move in moroha mode(41236+K) + Has one of the best defenses in the game + Has many options to land damaging combos(Throw, Dust, Unblockable, etc..) + Big range on her attacks(Far Slash, Hard Slash, Rekkas, 2D) Cons: - Normal mode is hard to use and weak over all - You lose health as you attack in moroha mode - Moroha bar management can be difficult to master - Knockdowns decrease her moroha bar - She NEEDS to be in moroha mode to be dangerous - Completly open when changing modes - Her normals are a bit slow

[Cyringohn]

In any case, for all intents and purposes, their backdashes are actually identical.

Does her backdash have only 1 frame of vulnerability?

That's an actual question, not a sarcastic remark.