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GG:AC Official Tier List Thread

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inability to do anything DURING first active frame. Opponent can do whatever during start-up.

Yeah that's what I meant. :sweatdrop:

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Does her backdash have only 1 frame of vulnerability?

That's an actual question, not a sarcastic remark.

I'm not sure, to be honest with you. Are you talking about the front end or the back end? If it's the back end, I'm inclined to say yes. Semantics aside, nobody else in the game covers as much distance and as quickly with their backdashes than Millia and Zappa. That's the only thing I was pointing out.

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long post

This all works in theory, but the practicallity of it all doesn't seem to add up from what I've seen and experienced... otherwise you'd see P.C and 012 busting out all of these theory combos you've mentioned.

As for Ogawa/Arisaka's tier list, it's in the GGAC crying, bitching, etc. thread.

EDIT: Found the post containing the tier list.

http://dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=128975&postcount=447

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I'm not sure, to be honest with you. Are you talking about the front end or the back end? If it's the back end, I'm inclined to say yes. Semantics aside, nobody else in the game covers as much distance and as quickly with their backdashes than Millia and Zappa. That's the only thing I was pointing out.

Frame data:

Millia:

Backdash Time: 11F

Backdash Velocity: 14

Backdash Invulnerability: 7F

Zappa:

Backdash Time: 11F

Backdash Velocity: 14

Backdash Invulnerability: 10F

So while they cover the exact same distance and last for the same time, it's one vulnerable frame vs. four vulnerable frames.

Actually, here are some more numbers:

Mean Vulnerable Backdash frames: 6.3* (Backdash Time-Invulnerability)

Mean Total Distance Covered: 136.23*^ (Backdash Time*Backdash Velocity)

(ABA is counted into the averages only once, in Moroha Mode, as her backdash differs. Slayer is omitted from the second average, as the frame data gives him a velocity of 0, which would not would not work in the calculation.)

14 is the highest velocity figure, and therefore Millia and Zappa tie for distance covered in the same amount of time backdashing. They also tie with Johnny for shortest actual backdash time. Millia ties for second-least backdash vulnerability with May, Johnny, and Robo-Ky (Being beat out by Zappa and Potemkin). She ties for lowest invincibility frame count with Johnny, Jam, Eddie, Faust, and Venom, but covers more distance in one backdash than any of them. In one backdash, she ties with Zappa for third most distance covered (154), beat out by Chipp (178.5) and May (156), unless you count Goku Moroha ABA, who would take first with 194 (Whatever the units are).

Millia probably one of the better backdashes in the game, but considering that Zappa's has three frames of invulnerability on hers and is otherwise identical (No, Millia does not travel farther), it's definitely better. Potemkin's backdash covers, far and away, the least distance in the game, but since it's so invincible and he benefits so much from being close, that's a good thing, not to mention backdash->pot buster.

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Frame data:

Millia:

Backdash Time: 11F

Backdash Velocity: 14

Backdash Invulnerability: 7F

Zappa:

Backdash Time: 11F

Backdash Velocity: 14

Backdash Invulnerability: 10F

So while they cover the exact same distance and last for the same time, it's one vulnerable frame vs. four vulnerable frames.Millia probably one of the better backdashes in the game, but considering that Zappa's has three frames of invulnerability on hers and is otherwise identical (No, Millia does not travel farther)

My mistake. The way her animations look when the backdash animates, it's easier to assume that.

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Et Cetera:

I-no

Pros:

+ Awesome mixup and damage potential.

+ Backdash is more invincible than before.

+ S Dive creates tensionless combo-extenders from midscreen, and allows a fairly safe instant overhead for great damage.

+ K Dive now groundslides on CH, enabling much easier 5H combos than in Slash.

+ Slower P note and faster H note provide a full-screen zoning mixup that makes her harder to approach than before.

+ S Stroke now floats on normal hit, creating an awesome tech-guessing game, and on CH floats for around 215-225 damage.

+ Added FRC point on the beginning of H stroke allows faster mixups than before, creating more openings for high damage and more openings for S stroke to connect.

+ j.H hits down at a spike, allowing "instant j.H" combos after launch that knockdown and provide great note coverage.

+ Sweep has further coverage, better float into HCL for added comboability.

+ Low hitting 2S

+ Excellent frame-traps and high damage

+ Great ways to escape pressure via her two supers

+ Throw now builds tension at a rate of 4.0

Cons:

- The new note speeds also backfire, removing several post-throw mixup options that she had in Slash (sometimes they were round-ending).

- No guard guage build on projectiles hurts her more than any other character in the game, removing round-ending damage from Slash.

- Simultaneously, her damage was toned down overall, with certain moves receiving 7-15 point downgrades in damage across the board.

- Horrible DAA

- Tallest hitbox while crouching for a lightweight/girl character.

- Poor mobility for such a mixup ortiented character. Easier to catch due to high recovery normals and specials, forcing her to stay close to the ground.

- Situational special moves and normals forces I-no to condition her opponents more than they have to condition her.

- Because of the aforementioned, risk/reward is often not in her favor due to iffy frametraps.

- Without tension AND some sort of hole and predicted attack, she has very little ways out of pressure.

- Very poor position to win the match if she doesn't gain control quickly.

- Forced to fight in a fight or flight situation, or she risks surrendering control of the match in many cases.

I dont really consider her supers as a + way to get out of pressure cause most people in the game can get out of pressure with their supers. Other than that she really has to take the punishment until she is able to fly out there like with her FB or . I consider some of those Advantages as more of changing from slash ino to AC ino as comparing characters but you pretty much nailed her stuff. You really have the negative comments down though.

Her FB sux to most peopls FB :(

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I dont really consider her supers as a + way to get out of pressure cause most people in the game can get out of pressure with their supers. Other than that she really has to take the punishment until she is able to fly out there like with her FB or . I consider some of those Advantages as more of changing from slash ino to AC ino as comparing characters but you pretty much nailed her stuff. You really have the negative comments down though.

Her FB sux to most peopls FB :(

I'd agree with the supers thing, except that her supers are extremely difficult to punish and can reverse the ride of a match instantly. For example, her air super is a zero frames after the flash, giving you ways to blow through attacks and do 220+ damage plus knockdown if you have enough room to jump in a pressure sequence. Her ground super is something you have to avoid completely in order to punish it, unless you have a move that goes through it on reaction (Sol's VV), so a lot of characters have to already be jumping to avoid it. If they jumped and you decide not to super, well, you can air-throw them or 6P them.

Her supers are good because they're unpunishable and they force people to deal with them directly.

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I'd agree with the supers thing, except that her supers are extremely difficult to punish and can reverse the ride of a match instantly. For example, her air super is a zero frames after the flash, giving you ways to blow through attacks and do 220+ damage plus knockdown if you have enough room to jump in a pressure sequence. Her ground super is something you have to avoid completely in order to punish it, unless you have a move that goes through it on reaction (Sol's VV), so a lot of characters have to already be jumping to avoid it. If they jumped and you decide not to super, well, you can air-throw them or 6P them.

Her supers are good because they're unpunishable and they force people to deal with them directly.

Yeah you are correct sir. There really are only a couple moves I can think of that could punish Ino's ground super

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Oh yeah, please add to eddie +New force break which does big damage, chains into itself, locks the other character down with tons of +frames for eddie while eddie bar recharges, does good chip damage, and hits low for every hit. -Anti-airs lose to some air moves which were buffed in AC

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Hos: Good: Much improved foward offense. His ACC is great for keeping momentum and setting up mixups(Throw,FB etc) Forcebreak: Very good string interrupter. Fast enough to get ppl cautious whenever hos gets the 25%. Not the best Fb in the game but players will lose if they don't respect it. More level 3's: Faster AC charging enables Hos to reach lvl 3 much faster than in Slash. level 3's(in particular Bandit revolver and Rock it) are among the best specials in the game and hos NEEDED them to even the odd's against tough characters. More knockdowns: Another improvement from Slash. Slash Hos never had too many ways of knocking down his opponent to set up his underrated mixup game. AC hos however has multiple ways of scoring knockdowns thru various counter hits. Longer range pokes: The new standing S and Fb gives Hos a much needed mid range poke. This helps him against good poking characters like slayer,Ky,Eddie and potemkin among others. BAD: No more lvl 2 bhb: Without the version from slash. Hos has to work MUCH harder against good zoners like testament. No more Gun blaze trade: In slash the gun blaze had only one weakness,throws. You couldn't hit him during gun blaze because while HOS would get hit. the Flame would still come out...and likely counter hit. A trade that is well worth it considering the damage you got. In ac that technicality is gone.making Hos easier to pin down(watch the old mwc vids where I abused the hell out this). Worse Jump: His Jumping In slash almost made him invincible. In ac it's altered so it's easier to anti-air him. No more blind jumps.

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Just a simple May tier explanation: Pros: +++Great abare; requires little to no tension for damage, and no specific setups for such combos either. +Not entirely tension reliant, plus gains tension quick +Addition of FB dolphins gives May a more safe approach and enhances her rushdown capabilities. It can also be used as a zoning tool. +Has one of the better command grabs in the game. +Very quick and high jumps +Somewhat decent air zoning with vertical dolphins and j.H. +Pretty fast. Cons: -Lacks mixup; only decent mixups involve low-throws and crossover j.2H, with a mediocre high-low game -Generally slow and low-reach normal attacks -Without tension, has a rough time approaching most opponents (zoners specifically) -Also has bad zoning capabilities without tension. Dolphin hoops are too slow to be usable without using an FRC, and using vertical dolphins to control air are risky. -Rush-down also limited without tension. -Has a hard time escaping rushdowns and okizeme, partly due to the loss of invincibility on 3K startup. So in theory May is terribly flawed, but her abare is just too ridiculous to be a bad char. Edit: Added a note on escaping rushdowns.

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Hos:

Good:

Much improved foward offense. His ACC is great for keeping momentum and setting up mixups(Throw,FB etc)

Forcebreak: Very good string interrupter. Fast enough to get ppl cautious whenever hos gets the 25%. Not the best Fb in the game but players will lose if they don't respect it.

More level 3's: Faster AC charging enables Hos to reach lvl 3 much faster than in Slash. level 3's(in particular Bandit revolver and Rock it) are among the best specials in the game and hos NEEDED them to even the odd's against tough characters.

More knockdowns: Another improvement from Slash. Slash Hos never had too many ways of knocking down his opponent to set up his underrated mixup game. AC hos however has multiple ways of scoring knockdowns thru various counter hits.

Longer range pokes: The new standing S and Fb gives Hos a much needed mid range poke. This helps him against good poking characters like slayer,Ky,Eddie and potemkin among others.

BAD:

No more lvl 2 bhb: Without the version from slash. Hos has to work MUCH harder against good zoners like testament.

No more Gun blaze trade: In slash the gun blaze had only one weakness,throws. You couldn't hit him during gun blaze because while HOS would get hit. the Flame would still come out...and likely counter hit. A trade that is well worth it considering the damage you got. In ac that technicality is gone.making Hos easier to pin down(watch the old mwc vids where I abused the hell out this).

Worse Jump: His Jumping In slash almost made him invincible. In ac it's altered so it's easier to anti-air him. No more blind jumps.

I wouldn't say Fafnir is a good string "interupter" because I've been beaten out of it with opponent's pokes many times when using it (admitedly I may have been using it in the wrong situations but it still gets beaten out is my point). It's a great move for stemming pressure and it's also a great combo tool: If you're close enough on normal hit you can get solid damage and on CH it's half bar damage.

A few HOS points I can think of...

Positive:

+ Fast speed and good up-close normals.

+ Damage potential greatly increased from Slash (more damage from Lv1 GB combos, j.HS (CH) and Fafnir and can give half bar combos, corner throw combos do more damage, Lv3 moves lead to good damage combos etc...).

+ Faster charging, charge keep and the way charge drains (allowing you to use Lv3, then Lv2 moves in 1 combo) are all great improvements. You can save your Lv3 for something worthwhile and still get solid Lv1 GB combos in or Lv1 RIs or whatever.

+ Following on from the above point, Lv3 is now realistically an option in a match.

+ Charge Cancel opens up new options for him off normals.

+ Air throw is un-techable and thus can be combo'd from.

+ 5S(f) and 5HS (CC) are new viable anti-air options.

+ AC FRC window a lot easier to hit.

+ Dragon Install: Sakkai isn't just a gimmick anymore.

Negative:

- Can still be zoned out by characters with better range.

- Short range on most of his normals.

- Lv2 and Lv3 BHBs have been toned down and had their range shortened (this has been discussed in the HOS forum, Lv2 BHB is now used for a different purpose).

- FRC point on BHB has been removed (see above point tho).

- Lv2 BRP no longer gives guaranteed knockdown and free AC.

- Some of his staple combos have become more difficult/more character specific.

- Oki mixup game hasn't changed much since Slash, getting too predictable now?

- 2S toned down a bit.

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All Japanese players are sandbagging until SBO. True story anyways, Dizzy: Pros + Great movement + Very good zoning capabilities + Good reach in the air + Best normal throw range in the game + Good air-to-ground + Good anti-air + High damage from the right setup + Requires little to no tension for combos, or general offense + Great okizeme that quickly leads to very good mixups + 632146P is a good reversal + Fishes allow for safe rushdown, give 'fake' frame advantage on pressure. Can even help break out of combos + Thanks to weird hitbox, Dizzy is generally not that easy to combo on. + Bullshit "unblockables" with projectiles and superflashes can help do that last bit of damage, or help close in on an opponent safely Cons: - Really bad health rating - Worst dizzy rating in the game (Everybody who hasn't heard the "Dizzy is dizzy :v:" joke raise your hands) - Has troubles getting out of corner/pressure - Needs time to set up her game - Bad tension gain, and several matchups she has to play keepaway, which doesn't exactly help. - Requires tension to safe several moves - Very dependent on knockdowns - Won't get knockdown from high damage combos. In fact, will only get guaranteed knockdown from a few select combos, and even then it's not certain against lightweights - Bad reach on the ground - Against most characters, she is at a disadvantage at a neutral state (like the start of the round)

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Here's my effort to make my previous list more succinct. I'll still leave the old one if anyone wants more detailed reasons for any of the things listed here.

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=156855&postcount=21

Pros:

+ Has "ultimate space control". Trees, nets, skulls, EXEs, the crow and his very long range pokes makes him able to keep practially anyone at a distance until a chance opens up.

+ Easy mixups with 6P/2K that both have the same combo-potential

+ Can get good damage from any situation for 25%, even from OTG.

+ Combos bring his opponents to the corner and almost always give knockdown.

+ Gravedigger gives him a moderate-risk way of closing in on zoning characters.

+ HS EXE, Warrant and Nightmare Circular together give him a good defense and possibility to escape pressure.

+ Can end most combos with a curse.

+ Good at building guardgauge, can reset his pressure with EXE FRC

+ HS EXE gives him a poke that wins over almost everything groundbased.

+ Very strong offense and defense after a curse.

+ Possibility of very high damage, particularly from poison

Cons:

- Big proration on 6P/2K that start almost all his combos.

- Very limited mixup options beyond 6P

- Lowest guts rating

- limited anti-air options

- No good air to ground game. Very easy to anti-air.

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Also I have a beef with how some of these characters are being listed. Stuff thats being put down for a pro and con doesn't really help. For example saying Millia has great mixups doesn't really help me understand why she's ranked where she's at. it's common knowledge she has great mixups. However if you say "she can get more knockdowns to setup her mixups" then the whole context is changed completely in relation to AC and why she's usually ranked at The A tier in japan. Other examples include: Saying so and so has a great command grab...I KNOW he has a command grab but it doesn't tell me why he's ranked at where he's ranked.or saying "X' character is "fast"...so what?depending on who you're talking about thats also common knowledge,Potemkin is the slowest character in the game and yet he's among the best characters right now in AC and Eddie and testament aren't exactly speed demons either, and most of all listing someone's defense rating...In this game,unless you're chipp your rating doesn't matter all that much...you're taking damage no matter what.

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Ogawa could come out and say eddies shadow is no longer useable and 80% of the members on this site would agree and go hit training mode and learn how to use eddie with out the shadow

Agreeing with this, and the above by Ukyo.

Also this has gone way the fuck off topic. I can split this off to another thread if people want to seriously discuss it. :I

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Agreeing with this, and the above by Ukyo.

Also this has gone way the fuck off topic. I can split this off to another thread if people want to seriously discuss it. :I

That would probably be a good idea considering it's an interesting topic, but not related to tier discussion at all >_<

I was gonna jump in and say something but I'll save it for another thread.

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Just to add something to Axl that I don't see added: Even from full screen knockdowns from Rensengeki or Bentengari(H), he retains good, reversal safe pressure(dashjump j.S), which can string into any of his mixups. Hmm, and I disagree about his damage. Axl does pretty heavy damage for 25% tension, and it leads into knockdown. His normal knockdown stuff doesn't do much damage but whenever he tosses out 25% tension it turns into a lot, especially in the corner. Just to add to Johnny one con I forgot: Pretty much every move of his is no longer burst safe. I realize it's like this for a lot of the cast but aside from like 2P/5P/c.S, nothing of his is burst safe anymore(including 5K and ALL of his air moves, meaning unless he JCs something he is burstable, even j.P's...). So erm, in short, his burst blocking ability kind of went to shit other than a few specific instances where he now needs to commit to combos or JC something to burst block. Of course he can still Mist Cancel but that falls under commiting to combos.

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can we get back to topic. i don't give a fuck if us is better than japan or the other way around. if somebody posts wrong information in here, its fine as long as no one actually takes it and puts it into the list.

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No way am I the top Zappa player in the U.S. but I have a good grasp of why Zappa ranks the way he is now (yes folks, he is better!) Here is a better explanation of why Zappa is a better character, without stating the established and OBVIOUS (even though Cyringohn had already posted):

Zappa

Pros

- Naked Zappa has a new far 5S, which is essentially the same animation as before, BUT it now has a second property which hits LOW when the spit hits the ground. Because of this, Naked Zappa can actually do wakeup games now, with a perfectly timed, meaty far 5S (so that the spit hits the ground and it hits low). From here, he can do basic high/low/throw mixup. Also, if the 5S spit hits the ground and it connects, it causes a STAGGER state, which essentially gives you a free combo/throw;

- The new 2K -> 2D gatling is EXTREMELY helpful and useful... dramatically improving Zappa's poking game. In the past, you would have gained nothing from connecting a 2K from semi-max range. In this game, you can easily poke with 2K from a distance, then gatling into 2D and THEN combo/OTG into summon! In Ghost Mode, you can now follow FRCed 236S into gatling string, WITHOUT the fear of ghosts trailing too far behind, because now you have an option of using 2K -> 2D instead (which doesn't require a ghost for your gatling string);

- His Force Break... the Unsummon, is godsent. Not only does it enable you to cancel a summon (especially a certain type of summon that doesn't match up well vs. a certain character), but it also gives nets you ONE MORE orb if it connects, AND it is a very FAST overhead. You can definitely use this move in certain pressure strings for mixup (works very well in Sword Mode). In certain situational combos, you can even use FB unsummon which enables you to net as many 5 orbs for only 25% meter, enabling you to summon up Raoh even QUICKER than before. Finally, when you're at 7 orbs, you might want to opt to go for a FB unsummon, which basically puts you in a very good position to summon Raoh;

- Ghost mode is a much more complete character in a sense that his zoning and space controlling capabilities had dramatically IMPROVED. Specifically, the combination of j.236 K and j.236 P (which HOMES IN on your opponent) controls a huge amount of space, WITHOUT the use of FRC. In Slash, Zappa's best way of clogging up space was 236D, but now, he has even more options. Ghost mode Zappa's game plan is basically controlling space and sheer annoyance factor (especially if you connect a ghost), and with his new 236P move, it opens up even more gimmicky, annoying oki setups for Zappa;

- Sword mode Zappa is essentially the same, with a few major upgrades that are definite, welcome additions. First, he now has a RELIABLE bread-and-butter combo that starts from a LOW HIT (2K, 5S, 5HS xx 63214 HS)... which also happens to give him one orb! Because of this, Sword mode's overall mixup game improved, because he either gets one orb from a low hit, or gets one orb from a Force Break unsummon overhead! Second, he now has an air-combo ender which tacks on extra damage: 236HS in the air. Third, his new FRC on his j.HS opens up many possibilities for cross-up tricks, and even wacky combos.

- Dog mode Zappa is an improved rushdown machine. His new 2-phase dog attack is extremely useful and makes his rushdown strings even tighter. Specifically, Dog mode Zappa will be using 6D, 4D-D patterns in his rushdown strings a lot, because not only does it make your rushdown strings tighter, it places the dog CLOSER your opponent, enabling you to continue your rushdown and push your opponent into the corner further....OR it positions you closer for a free unblockable bite. Also, with Zappa's new far 5S spit, it now gives your Dog BETTER protection against people who mash on P to kill the dog;

- As surprising as it seems, even Raoh mode improved. He still does ridiculous damage with his 3-frame uppercut... which is easy to do 90% damage off of with 50% meter. With that said, he has a new j.HS which GROUND BOUNCES on connect. With this move, he now has new ways to land 90% damage combos (as if he needed more!), FROM MIDSCREEN. Second, Raoh can actually control space better now, because he has three versions of his fireball (236S,P goes straight, 236S,S goes upward, and 236S,K goes downward). So in addition to his hammer super (632146S), he can also control space with his new fireball variations, most especially if Raoh is being zoned out. Also, remember that Raoh's fireballs NEED to be FDed, so if your opponent happens to jump without FDing while you do 236S,S, this is basically a free combo for you. Third, his 6HS has a new slide state added to it, so you can easily do 100% combos in the corner by doing a [6HS, 236S,K] loop, preferrably after an RCed 214S.

Cons

- 6HS (in Naked/Dog mode) is no longer untechable (so your favorite unblockable dog infinite in the corner is "gone"), although not necessarily that big of a deal because you can just do meaty far 5S into unblockable dog bite, and it works just as well;

- Just about everyone else in the cast improved, so although he is overall better, his bad matchups aren't necessarily "better" now.

That's basically it for Zappa. My pros/cons list is very detailed, so simplify it in however way you please. Bottom line, AC Zappa is essentially the same as Slash Zappa with virtually no nerfs, and major upgrades.

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Double-post (haha bite me), for my CONCISE, Cliff-notes version of my pro-cons list:

Pros

- Naked Zappa: far 5S has new 2nd property if it hits the ground: It hits low and it staggers

- Naked Zappa: far 5S (ground hit) gives Naked Zappa okizeme options for high/low/throw

- All Forms Zappa: New 2K -> 2D gatling is extremely useful, as it improves Zappa's poking game. 2K -> 2D definitely helps Naked Zappa as it can help him land a summon from semi-max range. 2K -> 2D also helps Ghost mode Zappa in rushdown strings (which, in some cases, the ghosts are falling behind)

- All Forms Zappa: New Force Break Unsummon, which is a fast overhead AND it gives you one orb. Definite option to gain orbs VERY quickly in certain situations/combos, enabling you to summon Raoh even faster for less tension

- Ghost Mode Zappa: Overall zoning and space control improved, with the combination of j.236K and j.236P (which homes in on your opponent)

- Ghost Mode Zappa: New, annoying oki gimmicks with 236P

- Sword Mode Zappa: Reliable BnB from a LOW hit: 2K, 5S, 5HS xx 63214 HS (which gives him one orb)

- Sword Mode Zappa: Mixup significantly improved, with the combination of BnB combo from low hit, and FAST Force Break unsummon which hits high (in addition to Zappa's crossup j.HS)

- Sword Mode Zappa: New air-combo ender: 236HS in the air, for extra damage in combos

- Sword Mode Zappa: New j.HS FRC opens up possibilities for extra-damaging air combos and gimmicky setups

- Dog Mode Zappa: 2-Phase Dog attack (preferrably 6D, 4D-D) improves his rushdown strings, in terms of pushing your opponent into the corner, and positioning the dog closer for an unblockable bite. In general, 2-Phase Dog attack makes dog positioning even EASIER

- Dog Mode Zappa: 5S spit protects your Dog even better vs. opponents who mash on P to kill the dog

- Raoh Mode Zappa: New j.HS which has a ground bounce state; enables you to do 90% damage combos from MIDSCREEN

- Raoh Mode Zappa: Zoning/Space Control improved with 3 versions of fireballs: 236S,P (straight), 236S,S (upwards), 236S,K (downwards)

- Raoh Mode Zappa: 6HS has a new slide state

- Raoh Mode Zappa: Can easily do 100% damage in the corner with [6HS, 236S,K] loop, which can be set up from RC 214S

Cons

- 6HS (Naked/Dog Mode) no longer untechable

- Although Zappa overall improved and is now more of a complete character, just about everyone else improved... which doesn't necessarily make his previous bad matchups any easier than before

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Hmm, I think the pros/cons lists can be fine but maybe there should be like a summary(the pros/cons stuff) and then a more detailed description below in paragraph style for a more in depth explanation(like what Juicy G did) on why that character is in the tier they are.

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The only thing about the tier list I don't get is Slayer being in S tier where as Baiken is in A tier. If I recall correctly, Baiken is the only character with good matchups against both Eddie and Testament. Sure, Slayer can do retartedly high amounts of damage off of CHs without any meter, but I don't believe he has positive matchups against the two best characters in the game.

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Slayer can do retartedly high amounts of damage off of CHs without any meter, but I don't believe he has positive matchups against the two best characters in the game.

Heres a very simple question....why not?

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