BB:CS Match-Up Chart

[Circuitous]

Are the matches that Bang won ending 3/2 (or 2/1 for best of 3) or are they ending 3/0? Because that could make a very substantial difference.

[zeth07]

I think you're forgetting that the japanese match-up charts go by rounds, not matches. Either you don't understand what that changes or you simply forgot.

Are the matches that Bang won ending 3/2 (or 2/1 for best of 3) or are they ending 3/0? Because that could make a very substantial difference.

They go by Rounds? I did not know that, I thought it was just out of 10 matches.

I guess I just won't question it then and let it be.

[Circuitous]

NEVER STOP QUESTIONING. All things can change. Just make sure you know the criteria.

[NeonCrusader]

It very well could. Hypothetically, let's say that ten observed matches were best of 5. In seven of these, Bang wins 3-2. In three, Hazama wins 3-2. Looking purely at the matches, yeah, it's a 7-3. Looking at the total rounds, however, it's 27-23, which is 5.8-4.2; much closer than the previous 7-3.

[qwerty]

well... you do realize that the japanese don't post every match video up and sometimes they post stuff BECAUSE they buck the trend, not reinforce it

this this this this

realize that there are literally hundreds of thousands of matches in japan every day and that even if they were to upload 100 matches a day on average, you would still only be getting a very small percentage of the actual number of matches being played there.

plus, most matches uploaded that aren't part of a tournament are often uploaded because they have something unique to them; a weird setup, a well known player getting wrecked by a random, a player overcoming a bad matchup, etc.

[Hellmonkey]

haha there aren't that many arcades with active scenes even in Japan, but the bigger issue is that there is a very small percentage of arcades that bother recording matches and making them available, along with players that ask their videos not to be put online.

[dehumanizer]

If you meant solely Arakune vs Nu, then I apologize for misinterpretation. But I don't think the Arakune vs Lambda statistics are correct.

Lambda does have a fairly high anti-air now, but I feel that both characters have equal evasive opportunities. Say if both had an equal amount of openings for simple combos, Arakune would straight up win. He does less damage than Lambda without a curse, but when it hits full, he becomes extremely hard to defend against. Once caught (which there many ways to do so), his loop can do anywhere between 7k - 10k. Lambda's can do only 5k max. Add some bursts in there and Lambda is still at a disadvantage since a curse can still be active while the Arakune doesn't need to be in range of it. For the other way around, Arakune is not put in life threatening danger when he bursts Lambda.

Saying Lambda has more evasive options than Arakune is not the case, especially since Lambda is strictly a punish character now while Arakune's curse meter still fills on block. Over at the Nu/Lambda boards, 30% of the videos we get in are Arakune vs Lambda- each one a different Arakune with a different strategy or different loop; we see around 10 different Lambda players against these 15 different Arakune players. In the majority of the videos, Lambda loses, especially with our best players.

The point is he doesn't, which is why this matchup is in lambda's favor. One can deal a crapload of damage, but it can be hard or impossible to make it happen.

[Dacidbro]

realize that there are literally hundreds of thousands of matches in japan every day

Lmao

They really do love their games eh

[ZONG_one]

I notice even match ups say, "not including mirror." But the chart does include the mirror. Rachel total even matchups 3, Mirror being one of them. Same for every other character.

[Kuuhaku]

Uh... if possible, I'd like a little information on how Rachel vs. Hakumen is only 4.5 for Rachel.

[dehumanizer]

Uh... if possible, I'd like a little information on how Rachel vs. Hakumen is only 4.5 for Rachel.

lol, ur rite, it does sound a little odd to me too.

[ZONG_one]

Uh... if possible, I'd like a little information on how Rachel vs. Hakumen is only 4.5 for Rachel.

It was Matsu vs. Shadow.

Lol, sorry...

[smooshman]

It was Matsu vs. Shadow.

Lol, sorry...

was that the one where Rachael flew really high lobelia spammed and bent baden baden lily and one? because that was fucking hysterical

[JohnAnon]

How about a brief placement explanation for dummies? (Preferably more in regards of CT -> CS)

[whitevoid]

nvm. for some reason I misread that.

[soujiro seta]

Carl going even with Bang, Ragna, Hazama? I have to question that. Imo, these are easily 6-4 matches in their favor.

[farranpoison]

Carl going even with Bang, Ragna, Hazama?

I have to question that.

Imo, these are easily 6-4 matches in their favor.

Sandwich still hurts.

And 6-4 in Hazama's favor? How? Maybe he has better mobility but good Nirvana pressure easily is a huge threat to him.

[ZONG_one]

Hazama can time out Carl if he's good. Other than that, I would say it's about even. But ehh. I play a lot of Bang matches, and it's mostly even. The only thing that could possibly give Bang the advantage is pure damage. If the Carl/Bang had equal damage, and it was equally accessible to both of them, Carl would have the advantage, IMO. Also, Ragna rapes Carl, I think. But what do I know? I suck at this game. And it's funny how you didn't mention Noel. I guess you feel she has no advantage. She may not, but she is still very dangerous in this match. Makes me wonder what Noel players were complaining about for so long. :roll:

[soujiro seta]

Sandwich still hurts.

And 6-4 in Hazama's favor? How? Maybe he has better mobility but good Nirvana pressure easily is a huge threat to him.

Hazama can easily time out carl. Once he gets a life lead, he can just run away all day. The problem with carl is that people always run away from carl. You always end up being the cat and your opponent is the mouse. It gets really annoying especially against characters that can play run away very easily, taokaka, rachel, etc. Hazama just happens to be one of the newly added runaway and frustrate carl characters. Once Hazama gets a life lead he can play spiderman all day, and carl is too slow to catch him.

Hazama can time out Carl if he's good. Other than that, I would say it's about even.

But ehh.

I play a lot of Bang matches, and it's mostly even. The only thing that could possibly give Bang the advantage is pure damage.

If the Carl/Bang had equal damage, and it was equally accessible to both of them, Carl would have the advantage, IMO.

Also, Ragna rapes Carl, I think. But what do I know? I suck at this game.

And it's funny how you didn't mention Noel. I guess you feel she has no advantage.

She may not, but she is still very dangerous in this match.

Makes me wonder what Noel players were complaining about for so long. :roll:

Lol, those 3 were the ones that initially caught my attention. I've played CS, not against the entire cast, but this is my own carl matchup list

Carl vs Litchi, Bang, Hazama, Hakumen: 4-6

Bang can stick to carl like glue, 5a/2a are god and will ALWAYS outprioritize carl, and his pressure is too much. Litchi's range covers like the entire screen and shuts down nirvana, damage is too good, staff flying everywhere stopping nirvana from completing her moves. Hazama can play spiderman and carl can't keep up, also flash keep super during resets/blockstrings into 5000damage is a deathblow to carl. Hakumen is the epitome of a counterpick for carl, 4c shuts down carl's entire game, carl vs hakumen can timeout all the time, the aggressor is always at a disadvantage so who ever gets the life lead can sit on it, hakumen can easily kill carl in 1 go, and countering carl during his resets doesn't help carl either.

Carl vs Ragna: 3-7 or 3.5-6.5

Yes 3-7. His basic belial edge bnb's take half of carls life, 2 bnb's and it's over. It almost feels like your fighting a tager-lite with the amount of damage he deals. 5b range, range overall, and pressure is too good. This match is the epitome of rape. The carl has to play 10x better than ragna to win, or it's over.

Carl vs Taokaka, arakune, lambda, tsubaki: 5-5

Taokaka's speed is too much for carl to handle. She can get in between carl and nirvana, pressure and get out when ever she wants. Did I mention that carl is too slow to catch her, so she can play runaway against him very well. Arakune, carl has a bit of trouble catching him as well, teleporting from one side to the other right when you corner him is utterly ridiculous at times, and curse mode damage is insane. Lambda, no more dashing out of pressure, or BS zone from full screen high damage crap anymore. Tsubaki - carl's slow nature and tsubaki's bnbs knocking carl a full screen away help her get charge meter, and she can deal good damage and apply good pressure to carl, although once she is cornered/sandwiched the game can end real fast, her DP not being ragna/hazama good doesn't help her.

Carl vs Jin, Noel: 4.5-5.5 or 5-5

These two are still very dangerous against carl, very very dangerous, and they deal good damage. Luckily for them, they are fast, so they can easily get by nirvana.

Carl vs Tager, rachel: 6-4

I love tager and I'm happy this matchup is finally better. No throw loop, duh. Carl vs tager matches give the illusion that carl is dominating tager, but what most people don't understand is that tagers backdash during carl resets are a free 360/720 into magnetism, and once carl is magnetized the game can end in 10 secs. Rachel - bout time that 7-3 matchup against carl turned around. Well, she can get a life lead and timeout, carl being slow works in her favor, but that's about it. She can't BS rush down carl like in CT, and carl's slow self doesn't have to traverse the full screen maze of death anymore, and if you do catch up to her and pressure either by sandwich or corner, the game is done.

I def disagree with most of carl's match ups in the chart. Obviously these aren't indepth match by match descriptions of why, that's what the carl matchup board is for, but I'm just giving a few reasons.

Other carl mains that have played CS, what would you say about carl's matchup chart as well? Zong? Zoogs? ?

[Obsessed]

So ugh... what's the deal with Lambda vs Bang? What exactly makes the matchup such an uphill battle for Lambda?

[kro_]

Uh... if possible, I'd like a little information on how Rachel vs. Hakumen is only 4.5 for Rachel.

Hakumen's new j.c is great for tagging her to get rid of pumpkin and frog and a CH 4c puts her in stun long enough for him to get closer, but they don't really guarantee a full combo's worth of damage. His damaging mixups are still slow and easy to block too.

The barriers don't really help him zone Rachel unless she's in the corner, and by that time she should be focused on using wind to switch sides. She even gets to keep the lightning rods that bounce off of the barrier and they tend to land at very effective locations. In my experience, Hakumen players were the ones most prone to running into lightning in CT. It should be even easier to do that now with midair sword iris. 6a is still useful and 236b/c are as good as ever too. Just don't expect to get a chance to make use of pumpkin often.

So basically, her zoning is still a huge problem for him, but his damage output and the slight improvements to his approach overshadow that enough to give him a slight matchup advantage. Well, that and Rachel's inability to do brute-force mixup into knockdown into corner rape anymore.

[Spirit Juice]

Carl vs Ragna is far from a bad match up for Carl. It would make sense why the Japanese put that match up close to even because if the Carl is good with controlling Nirvana, it can make approaching him difficult for Ragna. It's the same idea why Ragna vs Lambda is even.

[Antihippy]

Lambda, no more dashing out of pressure, or BS zone from full screen high damage crap anymore.

And in return you get to destroy her zoning with one button press!

Well, not totally I guess. At least he still takes damage like a bitch.

[feri]

I dont think Carl can punish C parser if he was holding D. 236d also forces Carl to make an action.

[Irrsinn]

I love how the first post says "Bang has no one above her so she has no difference." like it was copypasted directly from the BBCT thread and just replaced Rachel with Bang.