Completing the Accent Core Guide

[Zerite]

The Accent Core guide, selectable by clicking guides at the top of the forum, is still a work in progress. I feel that as a community, we should progress from this point to one where any changes will be revisions, not additions. Edits: In the throw section, when describing times when characters are temporarily immune to throws, no mention is made of having throw invulnerability on wakeup. I'm not sure how many frames this lasts for, I think it is 7, but it is not mentioned at all on the page. The secrets section is incomplete. You can unlock EX, Shadow and Gold characters. In addition, you can unlock the slash version, and reload version of each stage. Unlocking EX characters: Method A: Beat that character's shadow version in Survival. Method B: After 48 hours of game play (not the game being on, but actual play) EX Chipp will be unlocked and for each hour after that an additional EX character will be unlocked in survival mode order. (Source: Gamefaqs) At this point I want to mention how easy it is to find out this information on a site that just aggregates game information, but to find it out on this site, which specializes in this guilty gear, you would have to make a thread about it. Shadow and Gold modes Every hour after all the EX characters are unlocked or 48 hours, whichever comes last. Press D with Reload colors for Shadow, Slash colors for Gold. Slash Stages and #Reload Stages Once all EX, and Shadow/Gold characters are unlocked and you've spent at least 48 hours a Slash level will be unlocked. Press R2 for the #R stage version. (Source: Gamefaqs) Fight EX, Gold characters in Arcade Mode Hold down the corresponding button while highlighting Arcade Mode and press Circle. Note: You can't use Gold or Shadow colors if you fight against Gold Characters. Hold down L2 Fight against EX Characters Hold down L1 Fight against Gold Characters You can also unlock artwork, however I don't care about artwork, so someone else can post that if you want in our guide. Movelists do not exist for EX characters. If anyone feels like contributing movelists, they can be added to the guide in the Secrets section by character, perhaps in this format. Chipp EX Movelist Input: Description of move, hit, air hit, counter hit, air counter hit and block properties.

[zdravkelja]

There is movelist for EX chars in AC+

[qwerty]

i sure hope you're not expecting frame data for ex characters, because not even veteru can be assed to figure that out.

and in all honesty, the only valid complaint is not mentioning throw invul on wakeup (though i'm pretty sure it's mentioned somewhere). the rest you can easily find on gamefaqs if you so wished to.

[feri]

Guide should have no info on ex chars other than they are banned.

[Zerite]

Why am I going to gamefaqs to find out any information about this game? And no, I'm not expecting frame data, but it would be sort of nice to know all of the hit properties, like wall stick, ground slide and so on, especially for moves that hit multiple times, like Potemkin's heat knuckle, which has a float effect when you RC it.

Also, the system data page is missing the jump start up times which are listed in the 'charts only' section under intermediate. Don't know where else to find them.

I tried find an explicit explanation of how instant blocking works and could not. How do I determine how many frames my block is reduced by? How exactly does it affect pushback (as in how can I determine exactly how far it pushes me back?) There are similar questions questions about slashback, though as far as I can tell, there is no pushback when you slashback an attack. How does pushback work exactly for regular blocking? Same for hits.

How does dashing work to when you're dashing into a character? What about when the character is otg? Does it have different properties then?

Why are some numbers bolded in the system data information? What should replace the question marks in the system data in the guard recovery section?

I only brought up the throw invuln thing because it was the first thing I noticed, but there is plenty of information that we don't have, which compared to the detail of the existing data, was probably in the mook.

Also, I've always wondered if guilty gear really runs at 60 fps, as NTSC only shows 29.97 frames per second and pal shows only 25. It's certainly possible that the game runs at a higher internal frame rate than it shows, it would just be sort of unusual. What does this mean for all the frame data? Is it sending different data for each interlace field? If it is, does anyone know exactly how that works with the frame data?

Also, there should probably be a link to the hit stun section in the sections about guarding instant blocking, and combo sections. There should be mention of how the move level system works on each page so that players know about it when trying to determine frame advantage. Also, how does hit stop work with the move level hit stun additions? does it cancel them out?

Actually, looking at it now, this information may be incorrect like it warns on the page... it doesn't really make sense if you look at Slayer's frame data, since most of his combos are links and for his K-K-K-236(9)p combo I certainly do not have 15 frames that I could press kick in at any time and have them combo together... I'm very confused... Is the hit stop time eating most of these frames? In slayer's case it would have no effect on that combo then, and it would be a regular 3 frame link. Does the SD information already include the level mechanic effects?

The reason I bring any of this up is because this is the best system guide for guilty gear in the english language. I don't even know if there are others. I cannot easily find much of this information on gamefaqs.

Guide should have no info on ex chars other than they are banned.

They are in the game, but tournament rules are not. There is no reason to exclude them if the community is willing to provide the information, as it is not worthwhile to go through the trouble of personally writing up all that information, or testing it.

Also, tournament play makes up a tiny fraction of all guilty gear play, and there aren't very many tournaments anymore. The Austin regional that was after the SBO qualifiers had to cancel it's 3v3 event because there were only 6 entrants, and they were all from Austin, even though people had come from Oklahoma or further for SF4. There were too few for 1v1 as well. There is evident interest in EX characters from recent posts on this board. I see no reason that their movelist, with descriptions, couldn't go in the Secrets section.

Also, please be creative with the descriptions. I want to go to the zappa section and see shit like "22H: then this crazy mofo fuckin' all seizures and some crazy shit and summons the dog. fer real. You need like 3 of them glowin orb motherfuckers (those shits are some fuckin' frowney fuck faces) or you just spaz out like your watching old pokemon"

[feri]

If its just casual play then why would they need such a comprehensive guide for their character?

[Zerite]

comprehensive? It's just movelists. You don't have to contribute to it, so I don't see why you're complaining at all. Even casual players want to know all the specials for their characters and what they do. I don't see any argument by you for why something that is part of the game doesn't deserve mention in that game's comprehensive guide.

[Digital Watches]

Uh. It just seems kind of pointless to go to all the trouble if you're not doing frame data I mean if you want a movelist, you could just press start and find one in the menu of the game...

[Zerite]

That's only a small part of what this thread is about. What about the rest of these questions? I mean I just figured that if anyone wanted to they should be able to write up their character's movelist and have it in the guide, for the sake of being comprehensive, but I'm not going to do it and frankly I don't think anyone else is going to bother either.

[bbq sauce]

I mean I just figured that if anyone wanted to they should be able to write up their character's movelist and have it in the guide, for the sake of being comprehensive, but I'm not going to do it and frankly I don't think anyone else is going to bother either.

Guys, I think DL is lacking in some of the information sections. People should put in more work than they already have for the sake being comprehensive, on subjects that are generally unnecessary to the competitive community that this forum represents.

PS. I'm not willing to help.

[Tsak]

Guys, I think DL is lacking in some of the information sections. People should put in more work than they already have for the sake being comprehensive, on subjects that are generally unnecessary to the competitive community that this forum represents.

PS. I'm not willing to help.

i think he was trying to explain that he wants to know these things

i mean he can't contribute if he doesn't know?

fuck if i know half of these meticulous ass frame rates or data on this

shit gives me a headache thinking about it

[Zerite]

Guys, I think DL is lacking in some of the information sections. People should put in more work than they already have for the sake being comprehensive, on subjects that are generally unnecessary to the competitive community that this forum represents.

PS. I'm not willing to help.

You guys are really beginning to frustrate me on this. The EX characters and the unlockable information are the only things I've mentioned that aren't relevant to the competitive community. The other like 20 things you guys are ignoring. I'll drop the EX character list addition. I don't care that much. I don't see why you guys are so hostile to it, but whatever. The secrets section actually is part of the GG guide, and it just lists that stuff as TODO.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you guys actually don't know the answers to any of my questions about the game. I'll just ask pozerwolf, and be unable to add any of this information to the guide because no one with the ability to modify the guide has shown any interest in changing anything.

To summarize:

The guide does not explain, in terms of frames, how instant blocking and slashbacking work systematically.

Some information about characters, like the amount of frames it takes to jump aren't in the system data.

Some information in the character system data is just "???"

Why are some numbers bolded in the system data? There is no explanation for this anywhere.

How does pushing a character with your dash work? Seems to be exactly the same as normal, but it's not mentioned anywhere.

Does guilty gear really run at 60 fps, as NTSC only shows 29.97 frames per second and pal shows only 25? It's certainly possible that the game runs at a higher internal frame rate than it shows, it would just be sort of unusual. What does this mean for all the frame data? Is it sending different data for each interlace field? If it is, does anyone know exactly how that works with the frame data?

How does hit stop work as far as the combo system? how about the move level system (hit stun)? Does hit stun only affect movement as described in this section? http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html

[Digital Watches]

To summarize:

The guide does not explain, in terms of frames, how instant blocking and slashbacking work systematically.

Yeah it does.

http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html

http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/charts.html

Some information about characters, like the amount of frames it takes to jump aren't in the system data.

Yeah they are

http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/charts.html

Some information in the character system data is just "???"

Data on stun is slightly hard to test.

Why are some numbers bolded in the system data? There is no explanation for this anywhere.

Maybe it doesn't mean anything. Seems like a rather minor issue

How does pushing a character with your dash work? Seems to be exactly the same as normal, but it's not mentioned anywhere.

Er, it doesn't seem all that important, but from what I can discern it's just a basic equation of velocity. If you're running, you push the character at that speed, and if they're running, it goes counter to it.

Does guilty gear really run at 60 fps, as NTSC only shows 29.97 frames per second and pal shows only 25? It's certainly possible that the game runs at a higher internal frame rate than it shows, it would just be sort of unusual. What does this mean for all the frame data? Is it sending different data for each interlace field? If it is, does anyone know exactly how that works with the frame data?

As far as we can tell, the game runs at 60 FPS. Your MONITOR/TV might not.

How does hit stop work as far as the combo system? how about the move level system (hit stun)? Does hit stun only affect movement as described in this section? http://www.dustloop.com/ggac/data/hitstun.html

Uh. What you're asking is unclear, but that section describes what hitstop is and what it does just fine. "When a move connects, the object that did the attack and the object it hit (Either a character or a fireball or something) freezes for X frames," where X depends on the level of move and is listed on the bottom chart in the article you linked. The only effect it should have on the "combo system" is when

A. Someone can buffer something into hitstop that they couldn't do in the amount of time normally (See: Venom CR loop and May Dolphin Loop in their respective forums for specifics), or

B. When something is on-screen that ISN'T effected by hitstop (IE Venom hits you, his balls keep moving while you and him freeze)

I REALLY don't understand what you mean by "Does hitstun only affect movement".

[Zerite]

Think about how the hit stun chart interacts with links. It doesn't make sense unless its just about how long you can't move for. How does hit stop interact with links?

http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/system.html

this is the system data page. as you can see, the character specific jump data is missing.

NTSC is the standard system for American televisions. There are no televisions that run at 60 fps. They aren't monitors.

Also, I was restating questions I've already asked. Can you tell me how many frames IB takes off of slayer's 6H? How about Slashback? these

[4r5]

Slayer's 6H is a level 5 move. Level 5 moves inflict 18f of blockstun. If you instant block a level 5 move, you get inflicted 14f of blockstun, instead of 18f. 14 - 18 = -4 All PS2 versions of AC run abnormally fast. I don't know the details and it doesn't really matter for most everyone.

[Digital Watches]

Think about how the hit stun chart interacts with links. It doesn't make sense unless its just about how long you can't move for. How does hit stop interact with links?

That's just it. It DOESN'T. Both characters freeze during hitstop.

http://www.dustloop.com/data/ac/system.html

this is the system data page. as you can see, the character specific jump data is missing.

Okay, so the chart from the charts section should be transplanted into that data? I could probably talk to Shtkn about it.

NTSC is the standard system for American televisions. There are no televisions that run at 60 fps. They aren't monitors.

Okay, then yeah. The game runs at 60FPS, your monitor doesn't, so you probably don't see every frame.

Also, I was restating questions I've already asked. Can you tell me how many frames IB takes off of slayer's 6H? How about Slashback? these

Slayer's moves seem to be exceptions to the Level rules, but it's probably safe to assume that you can apply the patterns shown in the charts to them. Just look at the frame data and do some math.

My best guess:

6H is listed as Lv 5, and listed as doing 24F hitstun on standing hit.

The chart lists Lv. 5 as normally doing 19F hitstun on standing hit.

At this point, you can conclude that it's probably one of three things:

1. The 24F hitstun will apply across the board, so you should just add 5 to all the numbers listed under Lv. 5

2. The 24F is ONLY for hitstun, which is why it's listed that way. All other numbers work as normal.

3. The whole move is an anomalous (Lv. 6) case, thus might have abnormal numbers.

Now, if this was the only data you had, you'd have to do some testing, by finding some way to ensure that you could get a move out in, say, 23 frames after the move was blocked, setting the training dummy to block "first"

However, you also have the Static Difference (SD) listed with a special notation on his frame data sheet. Note that the SD for hit is listed in brackets for that move. The normal SD (on block) is 6F less than the hitting SD. The numbers make sense. The difference between hitstun and blockstun on a normal hit for a lv. 5 move is 1F. The difference between the normal hitstun of a lv. 5 move and the listed hitstun in the frame data notes is 5. 5+1 is 6. Therefore, it's probably safe to conclude that the move only gets extra hitstun, not blockstun, (IE solution 2) and thus acts like a lv. 5 move normally does when blocked.

This is a good example of how to read frame data to figure out questions like this. Note that I don't use any information in this explanation besides data already available in the guides and basic math.

[Digital Watches]

All PS2 versions of AC run abnormally fast. I don't know the details and it doesn't really matter for most everyone.

From what I understand, that's less an issue of framerate and more that there's occasional slowdown on arcade machines that happens because of weaker hardware.

[Zerite]

What I meant was what is the general formula for IB and slashbacking. Edit: I see the IB in hitstun chart now. What about slashbacking though? Also, this part of the chart should also be in the sections that mention IB, so that players don't have to search for it. It's only in this section. ABA doesn't have rising up data or jumping data. Same for O.Sol and Robo Ky. From my original post, the throw section doesn't mention that you have throw invuln on wakeup. It's something like 7 frames. Also, why not add the missing information to the secrets page? All you have to do is copy/paste some parts of my first post.

[4r5]

From what I understand, that's less an issue of framerate and more that there's occasional slowdown on arcade machines that happens because of weaker hardware.

Nonono, I ain't talking about the slowdown cause by tons of stuff happening. I literally mean that the ps2 ports are running fast.

Like you can pop in your copy of XX, #r, or slash and try and do Divine Blade frc. According to the framedata, the move has been the same since XX. The timing to FRC it is the same in XX, #r, and slash, but in AC you have to do it faster. I haven't found an AC machine yet, but my friend says that when he played it felt slower than console.

I was playing AC with Kenji a couple nights ago and we haven't played for a few months. When we don't play AC, we revert back to the pre-AC timing and after the 'round 1, let's rock' you'll literally see me and kenji sitting there doing nothing for a couple of frames, 'cause we haven't adjusted to the timing. Free hits on us at the beginning of each round. Stuff like backdashing, to us, feel more like 4~4, instead of 4,4.

I'm pretty sure that a frame in console AC is smaller than 1/60th of a second. But like I said, it's no consequence. Console AC is what gets played here, and most people have only ever played console AC. The speed in console AC is the norm.

edit: now that I think about it. slowdowns don't seem to happen in console ac like they do in the previous ports. maybe they fixed that but inadvertently bugged the speed

What I meant was what is the general formula for IB and slashbacking.

Edit: I see the IB in hitstun chart now. What about slashbacking though?

Also, this part of the chart should also be in the sections that mention IB, so that players don't have to search for it. It's only in this section.

ABA doesn't have rising up data or jumping data. Same for O.Sol and Robo Ky.

From my original post, the throw section doesn't mention that you have throw invuln on wakeup. It's something like 7 frames.

shrug, no info on slashback. I think all the data on rising and jumping is from old guides and we just assumed it hasn't changed in AC. If someone can capture at 60fps, then we could get the data. but if you capture from console, the results might get fudged up by the speed glitch.

[Zerite]

It just seems like the slashback info would have been in the mook.

[Digital Watches]

I'm slightly skeptical of the alleged "speed glitch." I've played on an arcade machine, and had no issue with timing, including 1F FRCs and 2-3 frame timings I have to confirm visually. I did notice slowdown when a lot of shit was on screen, but again, that seems to be slowdown, not framerate disparity.

[qwerty]

re: the "issue" of framerate discrepancy the game runs at 60fps, you see the game running at 60fps on your ntsc tv. this is how video games work. if you want a technical explanation of it, check wikipedia or ask avsforum or someone else. i've had enough of answering this kind of shit here only to be stonewalled by ignorance. if you're not convinced, i'll take videos of us ac running on my old ghetto crt tv and compare it side by side with it running on my ibm p96. my camera can record 60fps, so that's not a problem.

[Zerite]

It's probably treating each field as a frame then.

[Digital Watches]

re: the "issue" of framerate discrepancy

the game runs at 60fps, you see the game running at 60fps on your ntsc tv. this is how video games work.

if you want a technical explanation of it, check wikipedia or ask avsforum or someone else. i've had enough of answering this kind of shit here only to be stonewalled by ignorance.

if you're not convinced, i'll take videos of us ac running on my old ghetto crt tv and compare it side by side with it running on my ibm p96. my camera can record 60fps, so that's not a problem.

You mad?

He's right though.

[Zerite]

I know that the xbox version can output progressive scan probably at 60 hertz for #reload, but interlacing is weird party land.