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Kyle

Arcade Stick vs Controller

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Something that helped me a lot with learning stick was first playing other people. This forced me to get my crap together or look like an idiot online. It also helps to go into options and choose a starting side that you're bad with.

I play online all the time, but thanks.

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I kinda disagree with that, when I played pad, DS2 pads did not last more than 9 months for me. I don't even mash or press buttons that hard, it was just from frequent use that they all died (RIP).

Ive had mine break in as little as two months, but the last DS2 i got has lasted me nearly 3 years, but that being said i picked up a stick about 2 years ago.

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I grew up playing at arcades when i could, but most of the time i'd be playing games with freinds on pad on a sega genisis, super nes, and playstation. I got really used to pad and stuck with it for a long time. I finally got a custom stick and never looked back. After a few years of building and using arcade sticks I found I prefer a Korean Taeyoung Fanta stick and Seimitsu buttons...unless i'm playing Gear or HNK which I can't play worth crap without a hard springed IL/Happ competition stick. I'm very odd according to the people I game with around here.

I will say things like Kara-Demon in 3rd strike are waaaay easier on a stick. For me at least.

It always comes down to preference. I had my ass kicked by plenty of pad players in the past, and even a few keyboard players back when i played GGXX #R on PC. Anything is possible.

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lets face it. it sux when theres one char on the roster thats just too hard to play because your playing on pad. theres lots of pros to playing on a stick so i really hate it when people shoot me down for saying sticks are better than pads. i been playing on pad my whole life and decided to switch to stick 6-7 months ago. i was so suprised at how much easier the inputs became that i decided to import an official bbcs stick. the only reason i can think of that one might say pad>stick is that they never took the chance to adjust to using a stick 1st. Lets not lie to ourselves.

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A pad has one pretty significant advantage that most people don't usually notice. It can generally be compensated for pretty easily.

Parry/Instant Block/Tapping-moves can be executed faster (you're moving millimeters) as opposed to a stick (possible moving a few inches). Depending on how you use the joystick, some players even move their whole arm - significantly reducing reaction time.

Back dash, instant air dash, instant air back dash, super jump, etc are probably all advantaged on a pad.... if the pad isn't terrible like the 360. PS3 pads are pretty eas to tap, they're just not great at hitting corners when they get a little worn.

That being said, I can't airdash worth @#%$ on a 360 pad, but I didn't mind it on the original Xbox Duke.

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^^^True stuff

Honestly i use the 360 Dpad fine and the ps3 pad just hurts mah fingaz but thats just what i prefer :toot:

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i agree with supa. but the bottom line is the pros of a stick heavily outweight the pros of a pad. thats all im saying. theres a whole list of thm on the 1st page

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I played on a pad for a while, then finally got a stick and for the couple of months I've had it every type of execution seems easier.

Personally, I think the only downside to a stick over a pad is the price. If you have not already, putting some time into learning stick can just show you that the option is out there and you can choose w/e you want, but trying every option before your decision is advised.

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Parry/Instant Block/Tapping-moves can be executed faster (you're moving millimeters) as opposed to a stick (possible moving a few inches). Depending on how you use the joystick, some players even move their whole arm - significantly reducing reaction time.

lol it's like you think you have to touch the gate to engage or don't realize that wrists/arms are actually more responsive than thumbs....

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i played gg on pad for a year; nothing, and i do mean NOTHING, is easier on pad. stick is absolutely superior to pad, end of discussion.

i would get in to all of the reasons, but it becomes apparent as soon as you practice on one.

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lol it's like you think you have to touch the gate to engage or don't realize that wrists/arms are actually more responsive than thumbs....

Meh, I expected someone to flame.

I don't use a pad. I use a stick. I use several sticks, actually, with round gates (technically no gate), square gates, octogates, etc.... You don't have to hit the gate to engage the switch. In fact, not riding the gate will probably enhance the level of the game you bring immensely on any gate style.

Now what I want you to do is go measure how far a d-pad press goes until it engages the switch. Then go measure how far a joystick goes to engage a switch. Try it with diagonals, etc. Use a caliper if you need complete proof that it clearly has less travel than a joystick. Check PS3 pads vs 360 pads.

Then watch people use joysticks - some people use their whole friggin' arm! I do when it gets intense.

And, I repeat, I don't use a pad. I'm objectively saying that pads have the tap advantage. I'd personally risk tap accuracy to gain circular and diagonal advantage on a stick.

Buttons wise, I think the pad has the same advantage. Again, go measure competition joystick button travel against a PS3 pad. Check concave long travel Happ buttons (what the Atomiswaves would've used with GGX) and check short travel convex's from Sega Net City's. I'd still prefer to use a stick for plink/sweep/cross button/SC-instants.

So ya, common sense wise, scientifically and just general obviously, dpads would have the ability to input tap moves faster on both the dpad and buttons. End of discussion.

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Meh, I expected someone to flame.

I don't use a pad. I use a stick. I use several sticks, actually, with round gates (technically no gate), square gates, octogates, etc.... You don't have to hit the gate to engage the switch. In fact, not riding the gate will probably enhance the level of the game you bring immensely on any gate style.

Now what I want you to do is go measure how far a d-pad press goes until it engages the switch. Then go measure how far a joystick goes to engage a switch. Try it with diagonals, etc. Use a caliper if you need complete proof that it clearly has less travel than a joystick. Check PS3 pads vs 360 pads.

Then watch people use joysticks - some people use their whole friggin' arm! I do when it gets intense.

And, I repeat, I don't use a pad. I'm objectively saying that pads have the tap advantage. I'd personally risk tap accuracy to gain circular and diagonal advantage on a stick.

Buttons wise, I think the pad has the same advantage. Again, go measure competition joystick button travel against a PS3 pad. Check concave long travel Happ buttons (what the Atomiswaves would've used with GGX) and check short travel convex's from Sega Net City's. I'd still prefer to use a stick for plink/sweep/cross button/SC-instants.

So ya, common sense wise, scientifically and just general obviously, dpads would have the ability to input tap moves faster on both the dpad and buttons. End of discussion.

except for the fact that ppl cant move their fingers with that much speed or accuracy. but if they could then yeah i get what your saying. pad would be the better choice

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Now what I want you to do is go measure how far a d-pad press goes until it engages the switch. Then go measure how far a joystick goes to engage a switch. Try it with diagonals, etc. Use a caliper if you need complete proof that it clearly has less travel than a joystick. Check PS3 pads vs 360 pads.

you're missing the point brosuke; thumbs are not nearly as responsive as wrists. the extra distance needed to engage directionals on stick is more than made up for in input accuracy as well as speed.

Then watch people use joysticks - some people use their whole friggin' arm! I do when it gets intense.

i have seen one person use his entire arm with a joystick in recent memory and he is a homeless vietnam vet who mashes marvel at the local arcade

Buttons wise, I think the pad has the same advantage. Again, go measure competition joystick button travel against a PS3 pad. Check concave long travel Happ buttons (what the Atomiswaves would've used with GGX) and check short travel convex's from Sega Net City's. I'd still prefer to use a stick for plink/sweep/cross button/SC-instants.

what? no. you do realize you don't have to press your buttons very far at all for them to engage on stick, right? hell, feel free to drop your stick on your lap while it's plugged in and see how many buttons engage just from that!

So ya, common sense wise, scientifically and just general obviously, dpads would have the ability to input tap moves faster on both the dpad and buttons. End of discussion.

such a definitive ending to such a non-definitive post. :)

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I'm sorry, I forgot that there existed a world when people still used Happ.

I guess it can't be helped if your buttons are garbage. It'd be like comparing full sanwa against some old Madcatz Gamecube knock off pad or something.

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I'm sorry, I forgot that there existed a world when people still used Happ.

I guess it can't be helped if your buttons are garbage. It'd be like comparing full sanwa against some old Madcatz Gamecube knock off pad or something.

Holy crap. You just wrote the equivalent of "I'm 12 and what is Happ?"

American Atomiswave's are wooden. Most NAOMI cabinets in the day were... wooden. Street Fighter? Wooden. Neo Geo? Wooden. Soul Calibur? Wooden. Tekken? Wooden. Wooden cabinets generally can't be used with newer sticks without a whole lot of modification. So ya, kid, I still use Happs on my arcade machines. ;)

1) Go youtube for "how to use a stick" or something. The SSFIV weaboo craze lit that crap on fire. There's at least 3 videos with someone using their whole arm rather than just their hand/wrist/forearm in wineglass grip. Srs bsns, check it out. Didn't say it was correct or sane - I said it happened.

2) I might be willing to accept the "arm reaction speed" vs "thumb reaction speed" but I'm not going to wholly agree with it. If you grab an "average" person and ask them to play Boom Boom Rocket with a stick.... what do you think the outcome will be? I'm still going to say that pad is more accurate and faster with taps than a stick and newbs don't have to worry about hitting neutral. Plus my argument applied to buttons as well - so you're saying my thumb on a pad is going to have a slower reaction time than my thumb on a joystick .... because moar? Talk about definitive.....

Real world example of speed and accuracy on a pad advantage:

BlazBlue, Noel's 6C, Throw loop. Y+B is throw on an Xbox pad. 6B B+Y, 66B, B+Y, etc. Try it on a pad. You're coordinating a single digit (teh thumbsy) to tap out a combo. You won't have as much accuracy as easy on a stick and you never have to worry about neutral or accidentally the 4. Pad is idiot proof with this combo. Stick is.... not so much.

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I'm just not playing I'm 38 and my nostalgia glasses are too foggy to realize Happ's made in China now and really substandard. And here I thought we were talking about pushbuttons not... wood.

And y'know, I could use a pad with my whole arm too. It's pretty cool what stupid things you can do when you put your mind to it.

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did you miss the part where i pointed out that arcade buttons (particularly sanwas) are way more sensitive than pad buttons? the reason for this being that all you have to do to engage a sanwa button is engage the microswitch, which like i said, is as easy as dropping your stick on your lap. compare this to a pad where the button has to make contact with the pcb, and let's of course not forget that pressure sensitive face buttons can make this an ambiguous matter at best (which the dualshock 2 and 3 both have).

as for the "average person", the average person doesn't play video games, let alone the time to practice things we find simple like dp motions. so because a bunch of unqualified people have an easier time with inferior technology, it means that those of us who are qualified should revert to it as well? go tell professional racers that they're wasting their time with manual transmissions, while you're at it. :)

and who the hell uses their thumb for anything other than the button it happens to hover over? you have more control on stick because the buttons are further apart (allowing for less misinputs, as well as making option selects easier) and the buttons are more sensitive. if you're using some funky layout or place your hand in an awkward position, you're sort of defeating the purpose of playing on stick (unless of course, that's the only way you can be comfortable playing on it).

lastly, your example at the end is downright laughable. not only is that a mad easy combo to begin with, but there's no advantage to using pad for it at all. if anything, it's so undemanding that the difference between performing it on pad and on stick is negligible at best (which can be said for the majority of combos in bb, to be entirely honest).

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Nostalgia glasses? Mine are clear - I have two Atomiswave control panels in my living room. While a New Net City or a Noir would be nice, that Atomsiwave woody is a blast.

I use my thumb for more than it happens to hover over. There are 4 buttons I can hit with my thumb - I always hit them in combinations. It's pretty easy to hit 2 to 4 buttons with your thumb and do negative edge. Yoshimitsu and Xianghua from SCIV is easy peasey on a pad and remaps make them even easier. And then there was that whole shenanigan with Hilde..... where users remapped buttons to charge her moves with a trigger finger while still having access to all 4 buttons with their thumb and any additional buttons on triggers and bumpers. You're now using 3 digits with less travel on 8 buttons - I can't do that on a joystick, but we're not going for sane.

So you want to argue Sanwa buttons have the same activation throw as a PS3 pad? That's fine, we can go with that. It's insane, but that's fine. We're not going for sane here. :)

You want to argue semantics and say no one uses their arm - clearly you don't play at arcades and watch other users. Ever watch a Daigo match? Watch his hand and arm - it indeed moves, not constantly, but it does indeed move. So you're telling me Daigo plays Street Fighter and Guilty Gear like a one-armed vietnam vet... once again, we're not going for sane....

Never said Noel's combo was uber difficult - said it was idiot proof on a pad. Not so much on a stick where your hands are moving significantly further distances between hitting 6 and using 2 fingers to alternate between C and B+C. As opposed to a pad where you are barely moving your thumbs to accomplish the same thing...

And I do use my whole arm with a pad - you don't? It's not stupid at all - it's effective. Wiggle out of Jin's Ice from BBCT using only your thumb and not moving your arms at all with a pad.... that's stupid. You can easily shift the pad with your offhand while you mash with the other to achieve an effectively faster tapping rate. It's completely brain-dead not to. You must play with a pad like you were handcuffed to a desk... :psyduck:

Ok, guys, so you disagree this is an advantage. We can vote it off the island if you want. I've said my piece and you're on a mission to burn it. Consider it burned out. ;)

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You know I can't help but feel as though you're not saying "I'm too cheap to pay for a stick." your explanation would make sense if it had that in there. Just saying :)

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Nostalgia glasses? Mine are clear - I have two Atomiswave control panels in my living room. While a New Net City or a Noir would be nice, that Atomsiwave woody is a blast.

It's great that you're totally ignoring my point.

Your claim: PS3 pad buttons require less force (ie, shorter engage distance, more responsive).

Your evidence: Happ Competition buttons

Reason why your evidence is irrelevant: Happ buttons are generally recognized as not being particularly responsive (particularly in contrast to say, Sanwa).

My point: You. Built. A. Strawman.

Your counterpoint: Everything used to be wood! I have wood! It's so good!

Translation: Appeal to tradition, appeal to authority, appeal to emotion.

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You. are. interpreting. a. non-existent. straw. man. and. building. your. own.

I'm not sure how all the dots makes it clearer, but you are indeed inferring ridiculous arguments into my argument. I started my whole rant by saying I was a joystick user and hated using pads. I also specifically mentioned that the argument around a PS3 Pad's travel to actuation being more than a Sanwa (did you read that? Sanwa... Do you see it?) is insane. I have Sanwa buttons. I have a whole drawer full of them. I have a whole drawer of Happs, too. Go find that caliper I mentioned and measure the microswitch actuation length inside and outside of the button. Then go measure the stupid rubbery-membraney-thingie-travel for a PS3 pad. Get a spectrum micrometer if you like. The PS3 pad wins in having the shortest travel to close the switch for both the d-pad and buttons. My Happs? Probably 1/16th inch or something ridiculous. My Sanwa joystick activation? Probably about the same. There is no argument here. Pad button travel is shorter than any arcade button or joystick travel. End of discussion. Anti-climactic because... it's painfully obvous.

So nowhere there did I say wooden cabinets were better. That was never an argument. I stated I use many joysticks with many different gates and you have somehow inferred that I'm saying pads are better and that I use a pad.

To break it down -

Reason that your argument is irrelevant: You didn't comprehend the words you were reading, you only picked out ones you thought were suitable for you to counter argue.

Your counterpoint: epeen lulz!

Translation: You are only here to argue about something you didn't bother to read.

If you don't agree that pads have the advantage I stated, then just don't agree. You don't have to overanalyze partial sentences to develop some pseudo-self-righteous argument around. You can just say you don't agree. I'll still like you.

Edit: Crossell wins. Fatality. Although it's not impossible to do, it's impossible to realistically do well.... Instants with cross buttons like in SC3/SC4 (you have to hit X+B, Y+A) is annoyingly dumb to try to do on a pad well, unless you do the play-claw thing and pretend the right side of the pad is a joystick with tiny, tiny buttons.

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I use my thumb for more than it happens to hover over. There are 4 buttons I can hit with my thumb - I always hit them in combinations. It's pretty easy to hit 2 to 4 buttons with your thumb and do negative edge. Yoshimitsu and Xianghua from SCIV is easy peasey on a pad and remaps make them even easier.

you're definitely in the minority and are missing the point of an arcade layout.

there's always exceptions to every rule (boxer players holding TAP with their wrist/lower palm comes to mind), but what you just said sounds like something that's horrifically ineffective, considering the entire reason arcade layout is superior is because there's more distance between buttons than there is on a pad.

And then there was that whole shenanigan with Hilde..... where users remapped buttons to charge her moves with a trigger finger while still having access to all 4 buttons with their thumb and any additional buttons on triggers and bumpers. You're now using 3 digits with less travel on 8 buttons - I can't do that on a joystick, but we're not going for sane.

that to me sounds like something that should have been banned at every soul calibur tournament on the planet.

So you want to argue Sanwa buttons have the same activation throw as a PS3 pad? That's fine, we can go with that. It's insane, but that's fine. We're not going for sane here. :)

sanwa's don't have the same, they have less. again, go grab a te or hrap and drop it on your lap buttons facing upward; more often than not, SOME of them will activate because you've engaged their microswitches. that will NEVER happen with a pad, lol.

You want to argue semantics and say no one uses their arm - clearly you don't play at arcades and watch other users. Ever watch a Daigo match? Watch his hand and arm - it indeed moves, not constantly, but it does indeed move. So you're telling me Daigo plays Street Fighter and Guilty Gear like a one-armed vietnam vet... once again, we're not going for sane....

daigo plays wineglass style, so when he needs his upward directions he's going to have to use his forearm to get to them; he's not churning butter, lol.

and for the record, daigo was never good at guilty gear. ;)

Never said Noel's combo was uber difficult - said it was idiot proof on a pad. Not so much on a stick where your hands are moving significantly further distances between hitting 6 and using 2 fingers to alternate between C and B+C. As opposed to a pad where you are barely moving your thumbs to accomplish the same thing...

well what if you have big thumbs? WELL SEE I HAVE BIG THUMBS THEREFORE I CAN'T DO IT ON PAD AND STICK IS SUPERIOR (that's you that's your argument)

Ok, guys, so you disagree this is an advantage. We can vote it off the island if you want. I've said my piece and you're on a mission to burn it. Consider it burned out. ;)

probably because what you're arguing is wrong and you have no proof to support it.

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