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Zidane

[CS1-CSE] Hazama QnA and Tidbits Thread

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Any questions related to Hazama's gameplay and any little facts not known about Hazama (GAMEPLAY WISE) should be posted here. If you don't feel comfortable you could of course PM me.

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Something that can be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRtMMx5JwgY

Ignore the fact that the video is called a combo video. There are some combos of use here (j.6D combos, backthrow combos and 236C combos) and whatever that might be of interest. I don't know how easy any of these are, and some of them feel awkward to try out (like the repositioning combos). But hopefully someone would use it.

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I've tried his throw > 6D > 66 > 6D > Jakou and I can say it's not easy to do. Although that's speaking from someone who's by no means a pro.

I also know that Jakou > j.6D~D > 5C > air BnB is possible. But I think it requires you activate Jakou at a certain distance and the timing is very tight.

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Something that can be useful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kRtMMx5JwgY

Ignore the fact that the video is called a combo video. There are some combos of use here (j.6D combos, backthrow combos and 236C combos) and whatever that might be of interest. I don't know how easy any of these are, and some of them feel awkward to try out (like the repositioning combos). But hopefully someone would use it.

Wow, a lot of these I've never seen before. The Japs are always at it, I guess.

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I've tried his throw > 6D > 66 > 6D > Jakou and I can say it's not easy to do. Although that's speaking from someone who's by no means a pro.

I also know that Jakou > j.6D~D > 5C > air BnB is possible. But I think it requires you activate Jakou at a certain distance and the timing is very tight.

keep in mind that most of those are character specific. the j.6D~D relaunch only works on Tager, Tao, Arakune and one other character who escapes me atm ( Rachel? ).

having to do throw > 6D > 66 > 6D is also character specific

I know from experience you have to 66 inbetween 6D because of Litchi's slutty hitbox, but against Ragna/Hakumen you don't need a 66.

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While watching this video JetM vs Zidane BB:CS @ SBR at about 4:00 you can hear the commentator calling out a "Buppa setup".

After spending some time in training mode and asking Zidane a few things I guess I may as well post what I came up with ( I take no credits for the setup obviously... it's actually pretty "basic" too).

So, what's a Buppa setup? It's a teching mind game.

It's possible to set it up after a 4DA, 4DD, j.c(5), dj.c(5) combo by just dropping the dj.214B (it still works off any #j.214B combo, but I guess lifting the opponet higher with 4DA,4DD makes it way more ambiguous?).

This puts the opponent in a mind game where you can react to any kind of teching they may do by either pressuring them or catching them for a new combo.

- If they backward tech you can catch them with 623D or have them block 4D/6D chains.

- If they forward tech you can catch them with 2D; can probably backdash and catch them with 5A/5C/etc. or something too depending on your opponent's position as well as yours.

- If they neutral tech or if they do not tech at all, you can pressure them with chains (like, 5D while they are falling and ~D or ~C to end up in front/behind them) or go for 5A/5C/etc.

There are a lot of possible follow ups, so I've more than likely missed a lot of them.

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I've been playing hazama for a little while now and would like to share some things that I've learned about advanced ouroboros play (a.k.a lol chain gimmicks). I have a lot of dumb shit that i've created (X copied from japanese hazamas). Don't worry I'm only gonna list one. I'll list the maneuver, how to execute, when to execute it and why. Who knows ,if you like it and think its not too convoluted, maybe I can has my own tutorial guide on hazama chain gimmicks

Anywho, its important to note that these little tidbits i have are in no way meant to be the entire sum of hazama's game but are meant to be little add-ons to your game. These add-ons when properly set up should effectively confuse the opponent and give you some much needed damage for doing so. Ready? lets go.

Throwing chains and either cancelling or pulling in can get boring and worst of all predictable at high level play. Ever find yourself getting your shit IB'd to death. Does your opponent simply block chains and wait on that one time you decide to get froggish and pull in to your doom? Well, here's a tidbit. HAZAMA DOES NOT HAVE TO LET CHAINS HIT THE OPPONENT OR FULLY EXTEND TO BE THREATENING......sounds like pretty basic stuff right? Lets take this notion and pair it with the fact that hazama can pull in on the opponent from a whiffed chain.

1. 5DD->6D (for direct attacks on grounded opponent)/5D (indirect attacks on grounded opponents via D or C pull to either 2d or 4d )-> (A,B,C,D pull)

on the first possible frame that the 5D chain appears pull with D (I use this timing as a basic example you can do this as late into the 5D as you want. i will say that the earlier the cancel the better chance at confusing your opponent imo). Note that 1. you need to be far away from the opponent for this to be effective 2. you keep your double jump and airdash options when executing this (thats a very important thing to keep track of) 3. at any point during the upward pull you can cancel into j6d..

You hit the opponent with j.6d at best. At worst you miss or it gets blocked (in MOST cases this is no big deal, just pull or A cancel and land) but hey, you most likely have effectively rattled them if they didn't see it coming or have never seen it before.

If they decide they don't want to win that day and get the hit, pull in and give em the hurt.

If they block or IB, (it gets a little tricky here, oh yeh and in most cases if they are good they will either block or IB this lol). Most of the time you will be A canceling this failed attempt to open them up. it doesn't end there though, here's the gimmick. Every now and then, randomly (and by "randomly" I mean after you feel your opponent has been properly conditioned to think you won't pull your scrubby ass in) B pull in and from a safe height above them cancel the pull into either a 4d or 6d (this depends on two things: your horizontal distance from the opponent and if/how you decide you want to pull in on them). Most people will try to attack after the B pull in, thinking you are pulling in like a scrub (which you are if you totally rely on this dumb shit to win).

Ideally,the result is that they get hit or counterhit by either 4d or 6d. You on the other hand choose to either pull in for more bullshit or A cancel and land. Think about it, you have just reset ouroboros (only in CS1), gained a hit, and potential mixup (correction gimmicky mixups). If you manage to incorporate this and some other little chain gimmicks into your hopefully already solid gameplay (lol SolidPlay) you'll unnerve turtling tagers and trick even some of the better players into mashing and getting hit by this.

This stuff may sound a bit complicated, but I think Hazama is complicated. He will be especially challenging to use, let alone play with as a main character in CS2 imho. Disclaimer: this one won't be as effective in CS2 seeing as you don't get chains back on block. So, play keep away a little more or pressure to stall for ouroboros to comeback. (Again this is post is only meant to open up the door way for more creative use of ouroboros. I would like to see a section dedicated to ouroboros tactics so that there can be a detailed list of different ways to pull in. this can only help U.S players as a whole improve on their Hazama). Oh and remember Ouroboros is only a secondary attack measure. The main goal is to get Hazama in to do damage. DO NOT SHAPE YOUR GAME AROUND OUROBOROS, YOU WILL BE SORELY DISSAPPOINTED, MY TEARS ARE PROOF. Hope I helped at least a little and Good luck

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I see this in videos all the time and it bothers me. Why do some people do 214D~C > B > 2C > etc instead of 214D~C > C(x2) > 2C > etc? Doesn't the C version give slightly more heat and damage? Is there ever an occasion where B is better?

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I see this in videos all the time and it bothers me. Why do some people do 214D~C > B > 2C > etc instead of 214D~C > C(x2) > 2C > etc? Doesn't the C version give slightly more heat and damage? Is there ever an occasion where B is better?

The answer is that its situational. the simple answer is that its sometimes easier and more comfortable for hazama players to use 5b instead of 5c. For one, 5b is faster and for two it only hits one time making the TECH PRORATION A LITTLE LESS. This leads into the other reason why good hazamas do it. If a combo was started off of a light move (like 5a or 2a), using 5c after 214D~C may make it do more damage, but it also makes the combo tech prorate more (because of the multiple hits you pointed it out as having), which in turn makes the combo either totally impossible or a little difficult to follow up with 6D~A>6DD> j.cx10>214b fully. Why? Because blazblue combos can prorate in such a way as to make it progressively easier for opponents to tech out. This is based on the amount of hits in the combo (It usually works like this, but more hits does not always guarantee the possibility to tech).

Tl:dr

5b makes it easier to get a full bnb sometimes. Not because the person is bad, but because of blazblue's proration system. The general rule of thumb imo is to use 5C in the combo only if your first hit of the combo has good proration on it (a.k.a 5b or 3c), but if the situation calls for more damage and meter try 5C in the combo regardless of the starting hit just remember to either drop one of the 6A from the combo or drop one of the J.C X 5 reps. (protip: drop the second 6A in most cases because J.C reps are indispensable for building meter and pushing your opponent toward the corner.)

if you manage to read all this. :) Your welcome

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I have one question really, it's about Haz's CA, is there a time when you'd want to use the heat on that instead of something else?

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I have one question really, it's about Haz's CA, is there a time when you'd want to use the heat on that instead of something else?

Wouldn't happen very often.

It'd basically have to be a situation where you would be forced to either die from getting guard crushed and then finished off, or die from a 236236B trade (meaning you would have to be low on health and guard primers). Otherwise you'd normally go for a 236236B punish, if you are able. But if you can't do that yet, then a CA could serve as a move to give you some breathing room.

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Ok, I figured that it wouldn't be as useful as 236236B in a situation where you could use it but it never hurts to find out what others would say.

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I have one question really, it's about Haz's CA, is there a time when you'd want to use the heat on that instead of something else?

Very good question btw. Hazamas counter assault like any other CA is a last resort option. Unlike gold bursting, its easier for the opponent to punish and costs precious meter (think, you've thrown away one jayoku just to potentially knock your opponent away. No damage would be done and to top it off, its techable. Did I already mention its relatively easy to bait. Did I also mention IB jayoku is a better defensive use of that 50 percent meter. Oh i didn't? Well it is sir.

The only upside to using CA is that unlike ib jayoku, you don't have to Ib to force holes in their strings. You can, obviously, interrupt their block string at anytime. Like I said though, you can easily be baited so....in conclusion, you've made a critical mistake somewhere in the match or in training mode (ib jayoku execution failure) if you find yourself in a position where CA is your only viable option for escape. I know sometimes you have no choice against certain rush down characters (ie bang, noel, ragz). You may even run into a high-level player who is fully aware of the strength of IB jayoku and never risks leaving themselves open to it by using ib jayoku safe strings. if you have low life or like Silius said before me, if you have low primers. You must do it. Losing 50 percent meter and potentially being baited is sometimes a better risk than holding onto that meter, bursting or even eating the damage. Even though guard break damage is prorated, damage is damage and you don't want that at tournament level play. What i just said all depends on the "Match-Flow" (who has the life lead, does opponent have alot of meter, whats the potential risks of either eating damage, bursting, or CAing, intangibles like that) If you have the ability ib jyaoku, ideally your ass needs to hit it everytime (in fighting games the ideal does not always happen, keep that in mind though). You can also just ib their strings to create holes where you can maneuver out. In most cases that is actually a better and safer option.

Tl:dr CA is ass, only use it as a last of the fucking last resort.

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Going over these last posts:

a) CA isn't ass. You should use it in situations where you're not sure if IB Hotenjin would work but you don't want to keep blocking / low guard primers.

b) Stop using Hazama's other super in combos. It's worthless and only good against someone like Mu when you're zoning. I don't care if it's burst safe damage. RCing 623D and doing a combo off that nets like 100-200 less damager but 25% more meter gain. So you basically spend 25% meter for super damage instead of 50%.

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Sure is sunny today.

Nice to see nothing dumb has been posted in a while.

Thank you sir. You're fucking Mod-like.

Anyway, some tidbits, right.*arakune voice Did you know?......

That its possible for hazama to turn around in the air after a j5DD pull has crossed the opponents y-axis. Just double jump or super jump before the pull. Gimmicky applications you ask? Fuck yes! So against tager, do this technique. After you've successfully crossed his axis and turned around throw another j. 5D. If hits or is blocked pull again. You get a stock back for the chain connecting and when you crossup again hazama will turn around automatically this time. You can do this indefinatey until your opponent catches on The cool thing is that you can mix this into your standard gameplan seemlessly, if you're decent at zoning with hazama. This is ok for running time out and generally frustrating you're opponent. Do this very sparingly. Its just something fun to do in cs1. Could net you a free win or two also. Lolz

btw i this is not new. I borrowed *cough* STOLE *cough* this from Ora. A very good jp hazama

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Thank you to those who answered my question it makes a lot of sense to think of it that way.

You're very welcome. I know i'm very wordy, but its good info for the most part I promise :eng101:

Also don't hesitate to ask more questions. I love this particular thread, more than I love the entirety of Dustloop right now. I'm constantly monitoring it........creepy isn't?

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Question, I've been playing hazama for a while now and i come to realize his damage mainly comes from jayoku.

During Block strings i have become difficult in getting Jayoku to hit. I only manage to hit Incoming over heads with jayoku.

But i've been observing buppa and it seem he instant blocks during blockstrings.

Is there an easier way of learning this?

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Using Jayoku effectively essentially comes from IB'ing moves and counter attacking with it. If you watch vids on Zakiyama, dude IBs EVERYTHING. There's no easy way of learning to IB, go into practice mode, control the dummy, record him doing blockstrings, and practice IB'ing those. That's one way to do it anyways.

Although IB'ing online is a different story.

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Something that helps quite a bit:

During a blockstring that you're using normal guard for, you can let go of guard once you guard the last attack, then tap and hold back before the next attack. This way, if you instant block, great! Punish with whatever you can/want. If you don't get the instant block, you'll get a normal block instead.

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Need some help. I got this game about a month ago, and I fell in love with Hazama ^_^ and the game itself of course. I play pad for about 2 weeks, the I immediately switched over to a TE arcade stick. I pretty much have the whole jist of it, and I can do pretty much all the bnb's, RC combos and wutnot. However, I cannot do hazamas 236236b distortion special when in a real match, Idk its like hard for me to correct input that under pressure. Any pointers would be awesome!

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You can't just mash Houtenjin under pressure, you gotta wait for an opening/instant block. You could always practice with the AI while putting yourself in a position under pressure. My guess is that you gotta get a bit more practice on inputs with the stick. But heck, that's really all there is to say... it's not like there is an easier way to do 236236b

Also studying your opponents moves and timings is essential.

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