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[AC] Johnny vs Baiken

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BAIKEN MATCHUP INFORMATION

Poking Game

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Strategy

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Specific Punishes

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Setups/baits

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Knowledge

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I think of this matchup as quite boring. Having to kinda "wait" for baiken's guard shit. Baiken like mats, Thats why baiken is jumpin around throwing out the mats, and johnny then has the great ability to do a High MF from the ground, or Johnny could be this jumping jackflash dude and do jumping slashes from some distance. When a jumping slash hits, you can follow up with a : KJ(frc)[Airdash or delay] P,D,E : for a good 1-hit(baiken is fairly easy to 1-hit with the ensenga) When it comes down to baiken guarding your string, and you get sumthin in ya face? well solution is : 2p or 2k or 5S.c or S.f or hs[mc] just poke some with light pokes, and see how eager bacon is to show off her guard point reversal stuff. But baiken loves to be thrown :D 2k dash>throw, c.S dash>throw, HS[MC] dash>throw

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Jumping Jackflash seems to work very well against a Tatami spamming Baiken. Johnny's j.S range really is quite awesome. What isn't so awesome is Baiken's j.S, especially when she does a IAD j.S, it's range is surprisingly large, what am I supposed to do? Block and wait it out, or is there something I can do (6P)? I try preemptive MF-P's to try to knock her out of the air, but then she just dashes in for a free combo because I'm a dumbass. Also, just as a general question, how do you approach her? Or should I be waiting for her to approach? Sorry for all the QQ-ing, but this match-up is really eating at me >_<.

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No need to apologize for the questions, it's what this thread is for. But sadly, I don't have much, good, Baiken experience to confidently answer your questions. But I guess I'll try anyways, I just 6P the iad.S. If the Baiken player spaced it out so that it clashes with my 6P, then, well, it clashes and you continue on from there. Is the Baiken player setting up the iad.S in such a way that removes 6P as an option? Approaching Baiken, I still haven't solved that puzzle. Refer back to Hellmonkey's post. I just try to get a health lead and let the other guy try to figure it out.

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Basically, if you're unsure whether or not you can beat out her IAD j.S with an upper MF or a 6P, then just block. (edited to remove retardedness :vbang: )

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Wait, nah. j.S chains to j.P. And j.P chains back to j.S, or j.K or another j.P, j.K also chains back to j.P and is JCable. It's what I do all the time when I'm playing Baiken and my j.S gets blocked.

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God, more rape from him. I just get so mentally screwed from the fact that he'll GC me at some point, turns this into a poking match. Anyways, about the IAD j.S Baiken has, the only thing that can consistently stop it, is pretty much a preemptive MF-P. 6P can clash it every once in a while (I just noticed the lightning was red >_>), but if the j.S was placed well, it'll hit Johnny's thigh leg area, I had to do the 6P a lot earlier than I thought I would, and it could beat a badly timed j.S, but that didn't happen too often for me to really capitalize. Preemptive MF-P also seems to leave you open to just a ground rush, but that's probably I'm trying to get him into jump into the MF-P So far, all I have as advice is stay the hell away from her, which isn't great advice at all. It might be just that my reaction time is slow, but if Baiken is within IAD j.S range, it's too close to defend or change the tide. A large distance lets you stay in MS-P stance and you can release to the AA, which beats j.S or MS cancel and go to HS to stop dash-ins. From my horrible rapings, HS would either beat, or trade with her 2(Something, it's like a mini claw, 2P maybe?), but it would also be too far to connect with MF-S for combo goodness. Which didn't really matter for me, and is where my next question is from.. How to coin Baiken? I found out another reason to hate her, her small-ass hitbox. If you're HS is too close, and you coin, it'll simply fly right over her, unable to cancel her S-counter (Sakura), no idea if the coin would stop Ouren though, since he's still adjusting to AC. I occasionally try to hit her with in when she's in the air, but again, j.S rapes me for free. The only times I got a coin was with distant CH-HS, and random sweeps. Also, is there anyway to punish a blocked Sakura counter anymore? Either, I'm too close to MC-block after a string, and get hit. Or I block in time, but there seems to be pushback on it, so nothing hits her afterwards. (I tried HS each time, and it failed each time as well >_<) EDIT: Also, would it be possible to 6P her chain? I know you can 6P Faust's scalpel, and Baiken's is sort of like that >_>. KK, that's it for now. Time to watch more JO vs BA >_>

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Hmmm... something definitely funny is going on with Baiken's S-Counter. After blocking it, Johnny's K, f.S and HS seem to just go straight through her. I thought maybe she has some extra invincibility that wasn't noted in the frame data, but everything else Johnny has seems to connect just fine. And other characters don't seem to have problems hitting her. Might be a training mode only glitch, maybe. Tomorrow when my friends wake up, I can get someone to help me test this outside of training mode. I guess just stick to 2D for now. You throw a coin to stop her HS-Counter. Her S-Counter is invincible to strikes on the first 19 frames, the coin will tend to trade, or just whiff entirely. What you want to do is use f.S or HS from about their max range and then cancel to coin. The coin will stop her HS-Counter, and she's too far to use her other counters. Yeah, Baiken is pretty hard to land a coin on. You can't land a coin off a throw and you can't otg coin off a close 2D. You have to do funny stuff like: HS>MC, K-2D>Coin; or 2D>MC, 2P-c.S>Coin. You can 6P the chain, but it will always clash. It's pretty easy to just iad over it and j.HS her. You'll hit her in the recover of the chain, or CH her if she tries the followup. The Baiken player is hitting you low enough with j.S to beat out your 6P? An iad.S from Baiken should put her j.S at about your head area. Is the Baiken player iad'ing, falling slightly, then j.S'ing you? 'Causes if that's what's happening then because she isn't doing the j.S straight out of her airdash, you have even more time to throw stuff in her way or to move yourself out of the way. This also implies that there is a hole lot of distance between you two. Perhaps instead of staying outside her airdash range, you might try staying closer where her airdashes will be less effective. Whatever is going on, you could always just backdash the j.S.

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Definitely not only training mode for the Sakura thing. It feels like she has gained quite a large amount of upper body invulnerability on the recovery of it for some very obscure reason. I have the same problem with hitting her after a blocked Sakura when I play Testament as well. So annoying. <_<

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i experienced the sakura thing, too. extremely annoying. if you punish TOO fast it seems as if she still has her invul on it. chipp's s© has 4 frames of startup, happens very frequently that my move just passes through her after an instant or normal blocked sakura.

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I REALLY hate the Baiken matchup. Throw xx coin is probably the easiest way to get a coin off of Baiken, getting in is a problem though. If Baiken is happy with the h counter you can bait it out with 3h, if she does it on the first hit she'll bounce into the second hit of the hardslash. I wouldn't do this more than once or twice, since all she has to do is subsitute it for another counter like p counter. Tatami mats controlling space is extremely bad and there isn't much you can do about it. :(

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Are you sure you can land a coin after a throw, on Baiken?

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Are you sure you can land a coin after a throw, on Baiken?

Ahaha, I forgot to try that before typing it. Sorry, misinformation on my part. I'm sorry Pat. :(

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I find that it's just better in general to let Baiken come to you. Coins, 6P, upper MF, and jumps with rising j.P or j.K are all good for zoning her. Also, as long as you're not in block stun, one of the best ways to avoid her chain is to just jump.

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This matchup is kind of a pain. Baiken is the lightest weightclass and so you can't throw>coin or do a lot of other familiar combos on her. Also I find JO's mixup game a bit weak (basically either a low or tk ensenga) but by then she'll usually throw out a counter. The best experience I've had against BA is just abusing max range 5HS MC all day long. If it hits, you hitconfirm into level2 MF combo. If she jumps and you CH her somehow, run up 5HS MC upper MFlvl2. But yeah, overall it's a troublesome matchup. I find IB'ing her block strings helpful to land a 2p>2d>coin when I see fit. Is this legit or are there better ways to accomplish level 2?

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nope, that's pretty much it if you dont coin her when you land 2D, pretty much the only other way is to just throw a coin and hope it hits her. ...or some random counter hit of course.

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hey guys, which moves are adventageous to ib? also is tatami frc block string punishable or does it have frame adv on frc? cant seem to punish that at all.

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I personally don't have a problem dealing with tatami. In my experiences, throwing a coin at the Mat, and then doing an AA or coin again worked fine for me. Her defense on the other hand for me is like...:vbang:

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6P is guaranteed coin on baiken. it's no throw or 2D, but it works.

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I remember going up against a good Baiken a few weeks ago. I was doing horribly until I noticed that 5HS was great at interrupting her IAD junk, so 5HS when you believe it will hit. That's all for now.

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IB what ever you want, though not really needed. She doesn't have anything like Potemkin's 6HS>Slidehead and her offense isn't so tight that you are forced into IB'ing to escape/counterattack. It's most def frame advantage for Baiken, if you block a mat and she FRC's.

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