[CS2/EX] Hakumen Info and Discussion

[mAc Chaos]

Is it possible to do the corner loop off any of these j.B j.A corner carry combos? I did it once by accident but I couldn't remember which combination of moves I used. I was just freestyling. Or maybe it was j.A j.B.

[IndigoNovember]

Some info on the two main mid screen/almost to the corner BnBs:

Starter > 236B(1) > 623A > 66 > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.A > 2C > j.2A > j.2A > j.C

-The beginning is more burst safe.

-This does slightly more damage assuming you do (j.B > j.A instead of j.A > j.B)*

(-Off 5C or 236B(1) starter you can do the most damaging version of this combo by doing 236B(1) > 623A > 66 > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.A > 5C > 2C > sj.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.2A > j.C)

-Works on everyone(The most damaging version of the combo might not work on Carl).

-Has more corner carry.

*Note: You should always do j.B > j.A because it does more damage(The proration and meter gain is the same), j.A > j.B only makes doing the 2C easier.

Starter > 236B(1) > 214A > IAD > j.B > j.A > 5C > 2C > sj.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.2A > j.C

-A lot easier

-Has better prorate by the end, so if you put them in the corner can result in a more damage combo.

-Is slightly different on Makoto, and Platinum.

-Will work off a 2A > 2A, 2A > 2B, but not 2B > 2A starter

-If you 623A after 5C right before 2C you can tack on the first combo (ie 5C > 623A > 2C > j.B > j.2A > AD > j.B > j.A > 2C > j.2A > j.2A > j.C) for more damage and more corner carry.

I think you can only do corner loop if you don't do a lot of stuff before the J.B > J.A or J.A > J.B . Note how in the first combo, you do 2C > J.B > J.2A before the J.B > J.A whereas in the second combo all you do is Gurren.

[Sophisticat]

Is it possible to do the corner loop off any of these j.B j.A corner carry combos? I did it once by accident but I couldn't remember which combination of moves I used. I was just freestyling. Or maybe it was j.A j.B.

Yeah, though I think it depends on starter. If 5c, then probably 2 loops are possible. Anything else, just go for one.

Very much not a tested thing, though. Just speculating.

[Kunaki]

I never seem to pull it off but is it possible to pick up with 2B on a CH 3C from the tip? I'm too far for 2B so I have to hop but then he tech... I could be too slow on the hop too since I'm still in my pad-to-stick transition...

[SansProtocol]

Yes, you're able to connect with 2B after a 3C CH, even at the tip. You may need to give the opponent time to fall forward on the ground after the 3C so you can hit their hurtbox. However, you don't have time to do hop 2B before they can tech.

[Kunaki]

Seems I was just doing it too early. Works better that way :\ Thanks

[GNkyrios]

any tips on pressure and keeping at the corner? my friends who plays ragna can counter almost anything i do with a DP on some spacing or a 5B at mid range, not even kishu->grab works on him anymore, he has very good reflex for that, only way i can get to grab him is on a completely random aproach, my usual trap was ending pressure with 3C at mid-long range and getting another 3C as CH, now he just normal block and i get a CH from a 5B or a double hit with his 5C but that leaves me too far to 2b and do a combo. I really cant get any hit unless i play a bit defensive and anticipate something, i dont rush either, but my pressure or trying to keep him in the corner doesnt seem to do any effect.

[kotokot]

ragnas dp is designed to counter anything, just bait it and punish, if he have 50 heat you can try yukikaze if you almost sure that he will do it. 5B can be beaten by 2A/5B/5C/3C/kishuu depending on case. Try to see mixups thread. Haku isn't best char for pressing, or better to say he have very specific pressing with mix of zoning and frametraps.

[dioxideUniversa]

Block/punish ID with 5c will get you a far greater reward than Yukikaze for way less meter and less risk in any situation, especially when you have them in the corner.

But yes, the tl;dr about DP problems is that if your friend is DPing a lot, it's because it's working. If you start hitting him hard for trying it, committing to it will feel more risky and he will respect your pressure more.

Kishuu -> Throw depends on what his "very good reflex" is. Is he teching your throw? Mashing ID or 2a? If he's teching the throws, do Kishuu -> 2a -> Throw (Purple). If he reacted to your Kishuu and slammed throw, he'll get TRM'd (Throw Reject Miss) for hitting it too early. ID is the same as before--just block it. If he's mashing out with 2a, that's when you would want to use something like parries. I'd suspect that it's possible you're getting predictable with where you are using Kishuu in your pressure, so you do have to think about what you're doing and try not to stay predictable. Mashing becomes an issue if you are projecting clear patterns for where you're going to use Kishuu.

3c is -4, so especially if he's instant blocking it, he can easily get you with 5b if you decide to start up another 9 frame 3c. It's not something you want to use a lot. (I may have misinterpretted what you were saying on this part, tho...)

Hakumen is pretty dependent on meter and respect from the opponent to do pressure. A big step that will make pressure easier for you is start getting him for disrespecting you, especially if he's getting away with things like DPing a lot. Figure out where he's getting you where your pressure isn't working and try to punish him for it. Hakumen has a lot of power to do this with parries if he's getting predictable, but you have to be smart and careful about their use, as they are very unsafe.

[kotokot]

on block every Ragna will do rc if he have enough heat, so you can't punish this most of times. Yukikaze is pretty good deal for mashing dp.

after kishuu you can do whatever you wan't, can try delayed enma if he likes mashing/backdashing, block/catch for dp and mixup(5B>j.B>Tsubaki for example) if he does nothing.

[Fluck]

Yukikaze also can't be bursted out of.

[Minigrinch]

Anyone got any tips on beating Platinums 236B?

So far one of three things happens:

I Aggress it and its large hitbox, low invul and better priority annihalates me, usually leading to corner combos and death.

I try to predict it and D and just get hit by 3C or B+C leading to the same thing as above (I swear 236b breaks through his counter sometimes too, may be latency though).

And lastly I try literally anything and just get grabbed (usually into 236), is there any safe agression and movement Hakumen can do that doesn't cost gems or make you vulnerable to grabs?

It seems quite a strong move, even its recovery on being blocked is grab immune when she does the little hop, and god forbid she rapid cancels it.

[BladeOfJustice7]

If what you're talking about is "heart car", then kishuu/enma can beat/trade with it due to its head/body invincibility. I have flat out beat it when people tried abusing it against me.

[Minigrinch]

If what you're talking about is "heart car", then kishuu/enma can beat/trade with it due to its head/body invincibility. I have flat out beat it when people tried abusing it against me.

Kishuu tends to be my main way of agressing when I have the gems but it only seems to hit during the first bit of 236b, once she begins the downward half its attack hitbox is much larger than her hitbox and it just hits me anyway.

[IndigoNovember]

Minigrinch is indeed talking about Heart Car or Mami Circular if we go by the offical name. I haven't faced many Platinum's, but besides Blade's very good counter, can't you just block it and punish? Only thing to remember is that Platinum will be in the air for a while during the recovery of Mami Circular.

Kishuu tends to be my main way of agressing when I have the gems but it only seems to hit during the first bit of 236b, once she begins the downward half its attack hitbox is much larger than her hitbox and it just hits me anyway.

It sounds like you're doing Kishuu Enma too late. How about just walking forward and blocking when you see Mami Circular coming?

[Minigrinch]

The only way kishuu ever hits is if you do it before shes even started doing the animation, so its not a very reliable way of countering it, and my friend rarely does it as a straight up attack unless he has 50 heat or i'm on low guard (it takes a primer per block for some reason), any other time he just baits me into aggressing, high blocking or countering which leaves you open to her low attacks and grabs.

[IndigoNovember]

The only way kishuu ever hits is if you do it before shes even started doing the animation, so its not a very reliable way of countering it, and my friend rarely does it as a straight up attack unless he has 50 heat or i'm on low guard (it takes a primer per block for some reason), any other time he just baits me into aggressing, high blocking or countering which leaves you open to her low attacks and grabs.

No, I'm pretty sure Kishuu > Enma, without any delay in between the two, beats it out if you do it at the same time that she starts Mami Circular. If you wait any later though, then things start becoming less favorable with mostly trades occurring and eventually, if you start it very late, you get beat out. What about, instead of trying to read what your opponent is going to do, react to Mami Circular with a Zanshin? It sounds like you have the reaction time to start up Kishuu > Enma when Mami Circular comes out, so it shouldn't be that much of a stretch for you to re-train yourself to do 6D or 5D.

[Minigrinch]

I try to avoid doing D verse it because either its hitting through it or more likely the timing is off due to latency, so it ends up being a bit too risky to use. I guess theres not much I can do other than be forced into blocking, which sucks due to the primer loss but I guess I'll have to figure something out.

[BladeOfJustice7]

I don't reactively use kishuu>enma to beat heart car, I do it based off reads and anticipating it. Let alone reacting to it on netplay, I've beaten heart car before in cs2 with kishuu>enma and in csex as well. So you just need to make the right reads when you're playing a neutral game in the same scenario and don't commit yourself to anything until he makes a move and pay attention to how he sets up heart car to start breaking your primers. Lol I think this could've gone in the platinum's matchup thread too.

[TheBossGiga]

To beat it all you have to do is block it. it doesn't hit high so just block it low, it really shouldn't strengthen her mix up much outside of frame traps. its start up is like 18 frames so its not especially fast for a poke and after you block it you can punish it with almost anything you want its very negative on block i usually go for 5b>combo. if hes using it during your blockstrings start trying to fit 5c and/or 5b in em that will stop him if hes a thinking man. The move shouldnt be that strong he's probably just throwing out hard reads and i think no-one is psychic so you can and will punish him for doing it if your not obvious, he is guessing after all.

Edit-

also obviously dont try and beat it with lows like 3c and 2b. Ive also have had instances where it has beaten 4c so im iffy about that one. Also people consider it kinda scrubby but never forget that up-back Barrier kills mix-up just don't over rely on it ul get punished

[dioxideUniversa]

It's more than -frames to punish it with 5c, which will yield far greater damage than 5b (and thus be a far greater deterrent to its use.) You'd have to be sleeping to miss it.

Trying to beat it rather than block/punish is pretty dangerous and probably not worth the risk in most cases. If a Plat is very heart-car happy, just play patient until they screw up, since using Mami without meter is a pretty clear tell of an impatient player without a solid game plan. You won't see random Mamis being thrown out in high level play without rapids.