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4r5

[AC] Johnny vs May

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MAY MATCHUP INFORMATION

Poking Game

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Strategy

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Specific Punishes

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Setups/baits

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Knowledge

May's Dust Attacks

May has two Dust attacks. The main difference between the two is that one hits overhead and the other hits low. The low hitting Dust is also slower to hit. Contrary to what many believe, the two Dusts have different animations. They both start with the same animation, but they differentiate about midway through their startup. Below is an image comparing the two. The top row is the overhead Dust, the bottom is the low Dust. (I've skipped over most of the starting animation, since they're both the same and it would make the picture even longer.)

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~esara1/MayDustComparison.png

How I, personally, block the Dust is to block high and switch to a low block when I see May pull her arm in.

More to come!...? You can help!

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more random thoughts, 6p/5k at mid-range against her dolphins rush 2h during corner if u think may is gonna try dolphine xx ohk for dmg. ib her jhs during her iad pressure and u can airthrow her if u are quick enough/high enough in air guess this is more of a general knowledge but may will do 5k as oki...and it cant be grabbed! also her JH need to be blocked HIGH.... i dunno how many time i got hit blocking low thinking its the same as JO. best to jump back and foward to bait for dolphin and punish with js xx ensenga knockdown to start pressure? i saw DC doing sj pppppp a lot against may in air... mabe its actually worth trying offensively? or not as it increases the risk of eating that CH j.hs of doom...

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2h during corner if u think may is gonna try dolphine xx ohk for dmg.

No, it's too dangerous, you have to use the 2HS as a last. If you whiff the 2H you're dead. May has all option, if she do a little jump 2S, if she attack with a Meaty K etc etc.. Plus, she is very speed, she can back dash easily and run again to punish Joh and do a death combo.

The best weapon versus may on corner is the back Dash but be more careful in midscreen with that.

Also, Keep caution in air to put the FD against Vertical Iruka-San. This attack can surprise and if you whiff a strong attack like jHS/jD or jS, The May's Player can reap profit from that to gain a new Oki.

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When I played against May she was really floaty and jumped around constantly using j.2HS alot. Is there any way I can counter this with like a j.s or something?

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Kinda like facing Potemkin's j.D, I'd suggest either using preemptive j.D/preemptive airthrow or jump, IB then airthrow or land and punish if you are too late. Don't try to punish it on reaction by attacking, meaning if her j.2HS is already out and above you (why would a May player do j.2HS elsewhere than above you ?), you will get stuffed if you try to hit her yourself. In this case, the jump > IB part is better. Random note, May can use it as a cross-up tool.

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after playing against phaethonh's may yesterday, it really showed me how much i really don't know this matchup. few things i noticed: - may's 6P WILL dizzy you eventually. try your best not to get hit by it. coin sometimes works to counter it, as does 5S and 5H. - speaking of your 5H, use it alot. it keeps may at bay and if she somehow breaks through throw coin(s). also easy 6H if you land a 5H. - if may has you combo'd off screen, always recover to the opposite side. sounds obvious, i know, but if you accidentally recover neutral or to the same side may's combo will just keep going. especially if you don't want to use your burst, always remember this. - j.S works wonders against most of may's offensive and defensive tactics (see: IAD'ing all over the stage). may not be a good setup for anything but it's a damn good poke. - if you can manage to land a stun off of a j.H, for the love of god, throw her. j.H doesn't prorate the throw or the enkasu (at least not that i noticed) and it is such an easy setup against may. bonus points if you land a kj frc. - 2D -> level 3 works- if you're man enough to try it that is.

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sounds good.. especially the posting about teching to the opposite side... i really need to start doing that more :( j.s should be used discretely tho as it has slow startup and should u get CH by a random HS its a huge chunk of ur health gone. 6p works well against her iads approach. what are some instance when the may player use 6p? more of a frame-trap within a block string? random: if by any chance u are close to may (like.. c.S close) 2p5k5s2d can be gattled into coin and with it u can start a combo or.. mabe u can cancel the hs after coin into jackhound for a mist lvl3 setup?

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what are some instance when the may player use 6p? more of a frame-trap within a block string?

hard to say really. he seemed to throw it out at every chance he could get, so it's really up to chance. though if i had to guess what he used it for most it would be pressure and mixups (typical every character that isn't johnny bullshit).

if by any chance u are close to may (like.. c.S close) 2p5k5s2d can be gattled into coin and with it u can start a combo or.. mabe u can cancel the hs after coin into jackhound for a mist lvl3 setup?

when it comes to spamming normals, i usually go with 5K5S5H with maybe a 6H at the end. nice low recovery moves all around and they're all cancellable into coins.

that being said, i wouldn't recommend getting that close to may unless you have something specific in mind. and by something specific i mean an enkasu setup because otherwise the risk vs reward really isn't worth it.

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you know how sometimes when you play and lose, you end up thinking to yourself "if only i did $move" and then you end up fixating on that one move and it's applications?

i had one of those today, and it sucked.

went against a guy at some local tourney at a con today. he mained anji and i whooped his ass every time he played as him. he couldn't land a single fuujin because whenever he set it up i would get in throw range, so i had shut down one of his staple techniques and he couldn't find a way around it.

then he chose may, who he said he alted, and, well, :psyduck:.

he wasn't a very good may player at all really, he just spammed 2d, 5d, 6p and occasionally zoned with dolphins. but that fucking 2d would get me at the start of any round i tried to pressure him and the 5d hit me on rise because i didn't know how to counter it. even though i eventually found ways out of this, i wasn't able to actually counter it (mostly because i just wasn't thinking). it was so frustrating because i knew there had to be a normal that could beat may's 5d every time.

and that's when it hit me, in the final round of the last match. i should've been using 6p.

i had tried 5k, 5s, 2s, 2k and 2h, but i lost every time. i was thinking offensively and not defensively, and because of that i lost to someone who i really shouldn't have lost to.

so let this be a lesson- use your 6p against may :JO:

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6P May's 5D? He must not of been meaty'ing it properly. Anyways, by any chance was this con Otakon?

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no, it was kinyobi con. different caliber con on the other side of the country. and i really don't know very much about may in general (this is the third may i've played against) but i would be using 6P for it's upper invincibility more than anything. i haven't had a chance to test this myself yet (and i'm gonna wait until fred gets back from evo to verify this with him) but i have a feeling that if there's any move that will beat it, 6P is it.

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May's 5D hits low enough to make the above knee invincibility on Johnny's 6P irrelevant. So if you're hitting the May player out of his 5D without suffering a trade or clash, then in that same instances you could also use a move of equal speed, to 6P, or less.

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like 5K? because i tried that and the best i got was a clash (though i have a strong suspicion it was just me screwing up the timing). again, i'd like to have an actual may player to test this on since i don't know the timing, but this has just made this matchup that much more frustrating. also, i was wrong about what move that guy was using for knockdown. it wasn't 2D, it was 3K (just goes to show how much i know about may) :v:.

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I think one of the harder aspects of dealing with may is keeping her from getting too close. A large portion of her moves actually moves her entire body towards you, and many, if not all, require good timing to beat out. Trading hits are always in her favor, always; Jo's moves just don't seem to do enough damage. Also, her body is small and can run under coins if you're not careful (this might just be the cpu being the all-knowing jerk it is, but keep it in mind). And that's all I know of so far.

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he wasn't a very good may player at all really, he just spammed 2d, 5d, 6p and occasionally zoned with dolphins. but that fucking 2d would get me at the start of any round i tried to pressure him and the 5d hit me on rise because i didn't know how to counter it. even though i eventually found ways out of this, i wasn't able to actually counter it (mostly because i just wasn't thinking). it was so frustrating because i knew there had to be a normal that could beat may's 5d every time.:

Simply jump when you see May's 5D.

And versus dolphin, a simple 5P beat it.

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hah, i've actually played against many may players since then (norcal is full of mays :psyduck:).

for the most part, i tend to distance myself and do much more guarding/defense in general and much less throwing out random normals at rush in range like i used to. this has helped a lot, because now i can actually see patterns in how may sets things up from everywhere on screen.

against may, you should be keeping yourself safe at all times. mist canceling guarded normals is a must (you should avoid whiffing anything), as may can capitalize and ch from most anywhere on screen. conversely though, you can very easily punish may for moves she whiffs/you guard (coins and low level 2's work really well for this). 5H is probably your best overall poke here (ESPECIALLY ON ROUND START) with 5K and 2H coming in a close second. don't use f5S, ever; it'll whiff over her every time and isn't worth risking. even if you're going to mc it or something, you'll end up getting punished for it. so long as you keep yourself at a distance and punish her whiffs, you'll soon discover that she isn't as hard as she seems she is- she just has stronger gimmicks than you.

speaking of gimmicks, may has lots of them- and most of them are really stupid. if she's in 1hko mode (like if you struggled out of a dizzy or something), just distance yourself and guard if she comes anywhere near you. nothing you have is stronger than a full invul throw (not even wakeup super. don't ask :psyduck:). if she has half tension and is always trying to get in front of you (iad'ing all over the place in an attempt to catch you behind her), you have to watch out for that too because she's probably trying to set up a dolphin super; if you're behind her when she inputs it, it's a zero frame hit that you can't do anything about.

so in essence, just keep yourself safe even when you don't think it's necessary (because against may, it is). may doesn't really need tension to do damage, so even at round start you have to be careful of her rushdowns. past that, just stay patient and wait for her to leave openings (don't worry, she will) and capitalize on them as much as you can.

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So what's the matchup? 4.5/5 4/6 Against my friend Dogy who mains May, it's become more and more difficult to fight May as he and I learn that May has safer options than JO does. I'm having a hard time doing any kinds of approaching with his dolphin's trying to bait my approaching xD Jump... May responds with Dolphin. FastDashing... May responds with Dolphin. I've used coins against more than just may. But also her dolphins. But JO only has so many coins xD Am I suppose to IB the Dolphin's and punish with something? Sure, Enaksu setups are simple against May if you can set it up. But the hard part is actually setting it up >.>

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I'm not really one to ask about whether a matchup is good or bad. I don't pay attention to that stuff. And I'd rather steer discussion away from goods, bads, and petty matchup numbers. Knowing if a matchup is in your favor or not is fine and all, but it's really just useless talk. What's really important is how to fight the matchup, and that should be the focus of our energies. Yeah, you can IB and punish the Dolphins. With HS, if I remember correctly. But yeah, May's Dolphins are really good this game. She can FB them, to make them safe from counter-attack. Or she can FRC them, to make them safe from punish. May's kinda silly (and is part of the holy-trinity of eye-rolls: Slayer, Jam, May). Once she gets 25%, her options bloom open and you really just have to watch yourself. 'Cause any hit can become half your life. Keep an eye out for when she can charge and when she looses a potential charge. Thankfully this game has no charge-partitioning.

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So what's the matchup?

4.5/5

4/6

Against my friend Dogy who mains May, it's become more and more difficult to fight May as he and I learn that May has safer options than JO does. I'm having a hard time doing any kinds of approaching with his dolphin's trying to bait my approaching xD

Jump... May responds with Dolphin.

FastDashing... May responds with Dolphin.

I've used coins against more than just may. But also her dolphins. But JO only has so many coins xD

Am I suppose to IB the Dolphin's and punish with something?

Sure, Enaksu setups are simple against May if you can set it up. But the hard part is actually setting it up >.>

In this matchup, I suggest more than anything to be defensive, and patient because if you come in wrong even just once it is 75% damage and an Oki opportunity.

The coin is a great option but it is limited you are right so when you do use it, you have to be able to guarantee yourself at least a 70% of success on connecting.

One of the things that help me out the most with this match up is that most of her moves come in at you in the range where you can deflect it with either 6P or 5K. Honestly, though that is even pretty shaky now because of her FB capabilities.

More than anything though I should say make sure when you get her, you keep her there. Ideally this would (with most matchups against Johnny) in the corner, and keep the 5k-hs-MF lvl2 k-coin-IAD-J.k-J.s-j.D-enkasu reps going.

Most important things to worry about in my opinion would be that you should keep from getting hit with her ch J.hs, 6p, OD whale, and 5hs which should spell death for you.

The problem is more than anything that you have to outsmart her by a lot more than she has to outsmart you. Practice your combos on her, and be as safe as you can.

4r5, the Holy trinity of eye rolls; that was fucking hilarious, I couldn't stop thinking about how true that was.

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I appreciate the help. So these are the Enkasu combos that work. Corner Throw ------------------------------------------- throw, j.K-S-D>Enkasu Corner MFlvl2 -------------------------------------------- K-HS>MMF2, Coin, iad.K-S-D>Enkasu, land, Mist K-HS>MMF2, Coin, MSJH, 2D(2)>Mist Are there any others that also work well against May?

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I appreciate the help.

So these are the Enkasu combos that work.

Corner Throw

-------------------------------------------

throw, j.K-S-D>Enkasu

Corner MFlvl2

--------------------------------------------

K-HS>MMF2, Coin, iad.K-S-D>Enkasu, land, Mist

K-HS>MMF2, Coin, MSJH, 2D(2)>Mist

Are there any others that also work well against May?

Those should be just fine.

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So I find the matchup in May's favor by a small margin in my personal opinion. A lot of things trades blows or stuffs May's tools. Not only that, I've managed to bait my opponent of a 5K (supposedly has throw invincibility), SB'ed into punish. Although I think I had to learn the hard way, I think the [2],8 Dolphins are aerial unblockable unless you FD it =(

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you just never know what you'll discover in training mode. (pardon me if someone's discovered this before, but even in that case this combo is pretty awesome anyways so just read ahead) Midscreen vs. MA: 2D -> HMF2 -> coin -> KSSH -> KJFRC -> HDE 197 damage (note: you can turn this into a one hit without a roman cancel if you screw with your distancing a bit. that will lower the damage to 173, but you score knockdown) i started at one dash forward from round start distance. i got it to work two dashes from round start distance as well. at three dashes from round start distance, i end up whiffing the kj frc (perhaps this is something i'm doing wrong though). at four dashes from round start distance, the coin just goes right under may. figured since recoin combos are all the rage these days that i'd share it with you guys.

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IB 5K works wonders against Dolphin pressure, namely horizontal Dolphin, but I've managed to 5K vertical ones as well (provided you know the opponent won't FB the dolphins). This permits Counter Hit, so this is great =P Random coins has also helped me in this matchup as well for some reason xDDD Well... More or less to pay off those damn dolphins but for some reason this works, and I don't have an explanation for it :8/: Hit/Grab her before her Horizontal Dolphin Whiff -> Command grab gets you. As soon as she lands. Your grab also stops her 2D/2[D] mixups/pressure and whatnot, which is why I rely more on grabbing her than retaliating with strikes. I'm trying to see if there's something to clash the dolphin's with, or if there's even some sort of option select to take advantage of here. Fighting back on wakeup is rough =/ In the air, May has more fighting power than JO does and covers more space. JO might have more reach (j.S or MAYBE j.H), but May's j.H does a better job of controlling space and netting CH hits :mad: Fighting in the Air against May also sucks for JO. KJ and Divine Blade don't help too much, and j.S/j.H don't do much to help the matchup to much either. Perhaps j.S helps more than anything else (especially when retreating), but it's not entirely reliable ="( If May only has 25% tension and uses FB Dolphin, then you can be sure that May is going to mix it up. During this point, I look for her j.2H or more Dolphin pressure, makes life a bit easier to read dolphin whiffs -> Command Grab because she no longer has FB to work with.

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