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Shoto

Axl v. Johnny

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Ok, What's the best approach or strategy against an aggressive Johnny player in general, like anti-air, pressure,pokes, defense, zoning? Also, what are some combos that will work on him. Nothing links because of his weight.

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You should be able to use all of the basic combos against him, but I agree that they are quite harder on him since he falls faster. So try to lift him higher: If you do rensen FRC, run up, S© just make sure you don't run up as long against him as against other charas and then go on with 2S, 6K(1), 2S SJC. Through those aditional hits you will lift him higher making connecting the air combo part easier while getting some extra damage^^. For b-loops just put S© before 2S. For the midscreen throw combo just do a small dash, then do 5K. His hitbox is rather broad so you don't need to run up as much thus catching him higher in the air. (hm.. I thougt you could find that information in the first post of the combo thread as well but maybe I wasn't clear enough on JO^^)

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Ok, What's the best approach or strategy against an aggressive Johnny player in general, like anti-air, pressure,pokes, defense, zoning? Also, what are some combos that will work on him. Nothing links because of his weight.

Johnny is kind of a slowest character in the air so your AA works perfect against him, 6P is your main jump in AA it beats all johnny jump in attacks.

5P is a great tool in this match, hits johnny jack hound fb and if you know the distance for the jack hound is even better beacuse if johnny do a jack hound and you do a 5P if johnny appears in front of you he will get hit.

This is a match that you should be playing as a keep away and as a full rushdown once you get a KD, johnny doesn't have any defensive option so you should let the beast unleash.

Johnny rusdown can be a problem if you don't know where to hit him, using the 623p counter against coins and the 6H is very effective beacuse they are so slow that you can do the counter on reaction and if you really now the rush pattern S Benten works here.

Poking him with 5P is your best weapon since hits johnny jack hound and that's the only thing that johnny have to get in.

This is a "be patience match" keep johnny away and rush him once you get a KD.

Remember 2K ducks under johnny J OD.

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Johnny is kind of a slowest character in the air so your AA works perfect against him, 6P is your main jump in AA it beats all johnny jump in attacks.

Actually, a well-timed DB, j.H, Ensenga, or even occasionally KJ will destroy Axl's 6P.

5P is a great tool in this match, hits johnny jack hound fb and if you know the distance for the jack hound is even better beacuse if johnny do a jack hound and you do a 5P if johnny appears in front of you he will get hit.

Why would any Johnny do a jackhound outside of jackhound range?

This is a match that you should be playing as a keep away and as a full rushdown once you get a KD, johnny doesn't have any defensive option so you should let the beast unleash.

I disagree that this match is particularly keep-away. Johnny has a lot of tools to win far-off guessing games with (6P and misto finah can beat chains, as can coins, DB or KJ transport can both get in on lows/missed rensen pretty well, etc.), so it's more a matter of footsie than anything, since Axl and Johnny overlap a lot in effective range and need to fight over ideal spacing. KD into rush is a good general gameplan for Axl, but watch out for super, since Johnny's isn't terrible as a reversal.

Johnny rusdown can be a problem if you don't know where to hit him, using the 623p counter against coins and the 6H is very effective beacuse they are so slow that you can do the counter on reaction and if you really now the rush pattern S Benten works here.

Agreed on all points, however, housou can be risky on a Johnny that's mist-cancelling his H, because he can probably backdash out or f.S you.

Poking him with 5P is your best weapon since hits johnny jack hound and that's the only thing that johnny have to get in.

Nah, Johnny's got a lot of ways in. 6K, for example, goes straight under 5P and can CH you. DB and KJ transport are also good, as are 6K FRC and just FD dash-FD dash-etc.

This is a "be patience match" keep johnny away and rush him once you get a KD.

While this IS Axl's general gameplan, I disagree that this match plays out quite like that, as discussed above.

Remember 2K ducks under johnny J OD.

Definitely a good tool during oki

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Actually, a well-timed DB, j.H, Ensenga, or even occasionally KJ will destroy Axl's 6P.

Why would any johnny do a ensenga as a jump in?

Why would any Johnny do a jackhound outside of jackhound range?

Well :rolleyes:

I disagree that this match is particularly keep-away. Johnny has a lot of tools to win far-off guessing games with (6P and misto finah can beat chains, as can coins, DB or KJ transport can both get in on lows/missed rensen pretty well, etc.), so it's more a matter of footsie than anything, since Axl and Johnny overlap a lot in effective range and need to fight over ideal spacing. KD into rush is a good general gameplan for Axl, but watch out for super, since Johnny's isn't terrible as a reversal.

5P hits johnny before misto finah, coins, DB, KJ come out so you will not do a 5P if johnny is not in range.

Agreed on all points, however, housou can be risky on a Johnny that's mist-cancelling his H, because he can probably backdash out or f.S you.

Johnny can't mist cancel the begining of his H and that move is kind of slow so housou and benten works.

Nah, Johnny's got a lot of ways in. 6K, for example, goes straight under 5P and can CH you. DB and KJ transport are also good, as are 6K FRC and just FD dash-FD dash-etc.

Agreed, but any johnny do that to me :keke:

While this IS Axl's general gameplan, I disagree that this match plays out quite like that, as discussed above.

Well, the johnny I play is kind of agressive so a keep away game is what I use and works wonders.

Definitely a good tool during oki

Love 2K narrow hit box :yaaay:

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Why would any johnny do a ensenga as a jump in?

I'm talking TK Ensenga, or KJ Transport FRC Ensenga.

5P hits johnny before misto finah, coins, DB, KJ come out so you will not do a 5P if johnny is not in range.

Exactly what I would say. However, I would add that you should also watch out for 6K, which goes under and counterhits you.

Johnny can't mist cancel the begining of his H and that move is kind of slow so housou and benten works.

Benten yes, Housou no. Hitting housou and making it activate actually counts as a hit as far as any and all cancels and gatlings are concerned. Basically this means that if he was going to mist-cancel it anyway, Housou activation won't prevent him from doing so.

Well, the johnny I play is kind of agressive so a keep away game is what I use and works wonders.

Yeah, but it's not going to work against a Johnny that's got a bit more experience. This matchup is in Axl's favor, but space control is much more complex in this case than Axl's typical keep-away game.

Love 2K narrow hit box :yaaay:

You and me both, man.

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5+P kills johnny forever ^^

5P can be countered by johnnys 6K, spamming it is asking for a free launch for 160-180 damage. Johnny can also overdrive your 5p from anywheres on screen, or coin it.

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5P can be countered by johnnys 6K, spamming it is asking for a free launch for 160-180 damage. Johnny can also overdrive your 5p from anywheres on screen, or coin it.

That's a viable way to punish an Axl for doing nothing but spamming 5P if you're on the ground, I guess. But not if you're in the air, and even if you're on ground you still have to anticipate 5P - though it takes awhile to recover, if the Axl isn't right next to you you're still not going to hit him if you do those things since the chain isn't there.

Axl may still try to use it against you while you're on the ground, though, to shut down your approach, and that's pretty viable of him, but... An intelligent Axl isn't just going to sit there doing nothing but it. If you're trying to anticipate 5P, the risk/reward is massively in Axl's favor - With 6K/super, if you guess right, you get alright damage and knockdown, but if you guess wrong and Axl has no meter, he gets alright damage and knockdown, and that damage becomes massive if he does have meter or you're in the corner (and if both, expect to eat at good 50+%). Coin's less bad for you guessing wrong, but it also doesn't help that much guessing right and you can't exactly coin an infinite amount of times anyway.

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The more likely scenario with non-predictable 5P vs. a 6K or super in anticipation is that both whiff, which is worse for the super than the 6K, but since this scenario is likely to happen when Axl is very far away and starting the 5P first, Axl can probably get a rensen out, which you'll at least have to block.

Either way, the point is moot, and I will spell this out:

There are only three situations I, or, I argue, any Axl who's playing well will ever use 5P:

1. You are in the air.

Axl has all the time in the world to throw it out if you're in range for it, and it's a very easy way to gain advantage from a common method of approach. There are very few characters that can try to contest this, Johnny isn't one of them.

2. You did something punishable from far away

I play against a Ky and a Zappa fairly frequently, so to be fair, in my experience this applies more to short characters, but 5P is a good way to punish certain moves (A lot of fireballs). Basically, it goes like this:

Character A: Does move from far away

Axl player: "Oh, that move makes him taller for a bit. I bet I can punish him, or at least make him block" Sticks out 5P

3. The Axl player has played you a lot and is trying to do 1. or 2. in anticipation of a jump or a move

I admit I'm guilty of this a lot vs. local players, and this is really the situation where you can use these funny tricks to punish a 5P attempt. I wouldn't rely on it TOO much, however, as it's a player's bad habit, and is probably subject to change once he gets owned for it a bunch of times.

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