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Axl v. Ky: "I think twokay is a cool guy. Eh beats Ky and doesn't afraid of anything"

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Ky Kiske

General strategy:

This matchup is a little unusual, as Ky has a lot of answers that other characters don't have to your midrange stuff, which makes for some hard spacing games for both players. Meanwhile, there are a lot of things that are a lot safer for Axl here than they should be, but I'll go over that later. The point is, your gameplan in this matchup is going to involve a lot of guessing games, which you can make work to your advantage if you learn what you can do safely at what range, and how to punish Ky for basically the rest of the match once you take the offensive momentum out from under him.

Zoning:

Ky can stun-edge chains, his f.S can stuff Rensen at mid-range, and his fast, long-reaching lows (stun dipper, 2S) can be very ugly when you're stuck doing an upper-body-only reversal move. Ky's 6P is probably the ugliest AA you'll ever have to deal with besides VV, so your air-to-ground game suffers significantly. It would seem that Ky has a slew of options that just make Axl's day a lot harder. The solution: Let Ky move first, and keep him at an uncomfortable range, taking away and punishing his options until you get a knockdown. It's the same gameplan as vs. Testament, but it's harder up close and easier far away. Remember that running 2K can be timed to go under either stun edge, including HASE (Not CSE though), and that rensen is still an anti-stun-edge option from far away (outside f.S's range.) Aerial game should be mainly used to punish un-FRC'd CSEs and the like, and with normals, you should make sure you're low enough that if the move whiffs, you'll hit the ground, making 6P unable to connect with the giant-ass hitbox that is a whiffed j.S (which is mainly what I'm talking about). Basically, play it safe.

On the defensive:

There's not much to say here except LEARN TO BLOCK. Ky has to use meter to keep his rush going when you're blocking, so block low, wait for overheads, crossups, and especially tickthrows. You should really be IBing most of why Ky does, because if you do, you can pretty much punish any string-ender he tries unless he uses meter getting out of it, as Greed Sever, Stun dipper, and CSE all have either too much recovery or too much startup to be safe against Axl, even if you have to use Housoubako. Basically, be patient, chicken block if necessary (A good way to prevent tickthrows from CSE), and wait for a real gap you can get a knockdown from. Ky can't do a hideous amount of damage to you most of the time, but he can get knockdown from a lot of things and has a pretty good oki game, which will chip away at your lifebar. One of the hardest and most important things to learn to block is the ambiguous crossup that is Ky's j.D on wakeup, and all I can say is play a Ky who knows how to do it and adapt.

Dr. Strangerush or: How I learned to stop worrying and love 2K:

Ky doesn't have anything amazing to break out of blockstrings (Well, aside from a 12F DAA, which can be annoying), but he's not as vulnerable as Eddie and Axl either, so it's pretty generic stuff. What's different is your Oki pattern. Ky is simply ill-equipped to deal with meaty 2K. He literally cannot do anything. It does under SE and VT, and recovers in time to block and punish anything else he can do (This is assuming you can do a perfect or near-perfect meaty, hitting with the last few active frames). If Ky backdashes away, you have something like 10 frames up on him, so throw something out or just run up in that time. It's also an easy way to start a blockstring, so it's ideal as hell as an anti-Ky meaty. Still, your local Ky may eventually learn to block low, and it's so much more satisfying to at least occasionally go for a hit, so these other options, while less solid, are still viable:

Meaties that are less practical but more fun:

Safe air normal: This is almost as good as 2K, and is a nice option for high hits. The only reason this isn't as good as 2K is because it takes longer to set up.

2H: The 2H pullback meaty has the advantage of working from far away, and staggers too!

Housou: If the Ky just somehow isn't getting the message that VT is not a reversal anymore, a late oki Housou in the corner might be just the trick to do lots and lots of damage for no meter. Eventually, the Ky will probably wise up and start doing something low on wakeup, so try to do this as late as you possibly can if you're going to go for it.

6H: On the flipside, if the Ky is conditioned to never ever do VT ever, meaty 6H becomes an option again. Please note that if your opponent can react well, you'll probably get VT'd anyway, and I will laugh. You can also do a 6H WAY too early to meaty, recover, and block the VT for a cool AA combo.

Raeisageki H: The way Sytha describes it, "this looks like a jump." Your local Ky may not fall for it as often as he does, but I don't doubt that a lot of Kys are used to trying to VT when they see someone try to jump in on oki. Fun fact: This will also punish bursts. If you have half meter, feel free to RC and combo.

Pros:

-Rensen, Housou, and 2K form a set of options that make regular stun edges risky.

-Oki against Ky is ridiculously effective, making it hard for Ky to gain momentum

-Air to ground is a game Ky likes to play a lot. Needless to say, Hokuto Shi- I mean Axl AA is unbeatable!

Cons:

-Ky also has good AA (DGE!), which gets rid of Axl's favorite long-range pressure tool, 2 hit j.S, as well as most other aerial options.

-Ky has a ton of tickthrows, which are a huge weakness for Axl.

-Ky has a fast midscreen option against Rensen, which is completely stupid.

My opinion:

5.5-4.5 Axl's advantage. This matchup is weird for both parties, and both have to play differently, but Axl has an edge, mainly due to his ability to keep offensive momentum once he's got it.

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Can somebody tell me anything about the KY match up.

I never fight against a ky before so I can use some help here.

THX

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From my own experience: --Be patient. Ky can control space very well with his pokes, air pokes, and his air Stun Edge. If you're in the air, don't try to approach him if he's on the ground. His 2H is too strong for you to approach. If he catches you in the air with an ASE, double jump it if you can, and throw out j.S or j.6P to keep him away. If you catch him doing a HS ASE while you're on the ground you can 2K under it or try a run in (be wary if he FRC's). However, if he does the ASE low enough, you'll have to jump it. Don't try to out space him. He's shorter than your 5P, so he can hit you with CH SE's or just run in. I'm not sure about getting in closer to 2P him, instead. In my experience, trying to space him with 2P gets him a free IAD in or Greed Sever. At neutral, if the Ky is doing a Charged Stun Edge, if you can't already interrupt him with a poke from where you're at, don't try to force it with a jump in or IAD, because FRC jump CSE is quite problematic to deal with. Just avoid it entirely preferably by getting away so it dissipates, jumping if running away is not an option. Patience also pays off in his rushdown. Ky has some pretty mean frame traps, and if the player knows his character, he knows that there are holes in his offense, particularly with the opponent against the wall, where the opponent can jump out. Trying that against a good Ky like that will get you air thrown. Against the wall, his mixup isn't that strong aside from his fast dust. It's trying to get out of the position when he knows that you're trying to get out is what gets you KO'ed. He does this very well with 5S(f.), 2H, and air throw. Eventually, the Ky player will either try a dust or tick throw. Block the dust, and his pressure is over. Tick throws might be a little harder to deal with, but Ky has a slow run, and personally, I haven't played a Ky that goes for tick throws at the wall too often. --His midscreen oki is stronger than his wall oki, due to his j.D crossup games. Not much you can do here but learn how to block it. --On offense, your 2K goes under his Vapour Thrust, so that can come in mighty handy when going for frame traps if the Ky player likes to VT out of pressure, and gives you a semi-free meaty 2K. If he backdashes your 2K on wakeup, your pressure is done. That's all I got. :psyduck:

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From my own experience:

--Be patient. Ky can control space very well with his pokes, air pokes, and his air Stun Edge. If you're in the air, don't try to approach him if he's on the ground. His 2H is too strong for you to approach. If he catches you in the air with an ASE, double jump it if you can, and throw out j.S or j.6P to keep him away. If you catch him doing a HS ASE while you're on the ground you can 2K under it or try a run in (be wary if he FRC's). However, if he does the ASE low enough, you'll have to jump it. Don't try to out space him. He's shorter than your 5P, so he can hit you with CH SE's or just run in. I'm not sure about getting in closer to 2P him, instead. In my experience, trying to space him with 2P gets him a free IAD in or Greed Sever. At neutral, if the Ky is doing a Charged Stun Edge, if you can't already interrupt him with a poke from where you're at, don't try to force it with a jump in or IAD, because FRC jump CSE is quite problematic to deal with. Just avoid it entirely preferably by getting away so it dissipates, jumping if running away is not an option.

Patience also pays off in his rushdown. Ky has some pretty mean frame traps, and if the player knows his character, he knows that there are holes in his offense, particularly with the opponent against the wall, where the opponent can jump out. Trying that against a good Ky like that will get you air thrown. Against the wall, his mixup isn't that strong aside from his fast dust. It's trying to get out of the position when he knows that you're trying to get out is what gets you KO'ed. He does this very well with 5S(f.), 2H, and air throw. Eventually, the Ky player will either try a dust or tick throw. Block the dust, and his pressure is over. Tick throws might be a little harder to deal with, but Ky has a slow run, and personally, I haven't played a Ky that goes for tick throws at the wall too often.

--His midscreen oki is stronger than his wall oki, due to his j.D crossup games. Not much you can do here but learn how to block it.

--On offense, your 2K goes under his Vapour Thrust, so that can come in mighty handy when going for frame traps if the Ky player likes to VT out of pressure, and gives you a semi-free meaty 2K. If he backdashes your 2K on wakeup, your pressure is done.

That's all I got. :psyduck:

Only HOS, Jam, Millia, Chipp, Moroha mode ABA and Zappa have faster Runs than Ky. His Tick throw game in general is pretty scary. Since about half of his normals are potential tick throws. The j.D cross up games while fun. Are not all that needs to be watched for, he doesn't have to do j.D to get the mean cross up games and a lot of the time they are even better without them. The j.D is mostly to rape a wake up Throw attempt. But if your feeling like you would like a gold burst then you can gold burst that set up if Ky trys for a j.D Cross up. Your 3P, Far Slash, 2K are all pretty annoying Normals for Ky. Spaced 3P cant really be punished. Far Slash just beats a lot of Ky's pokes at the same range. With Ky's 6P being the exception altho... Ky cant get anything to connect after the 6P Blowsback at that distance really. and like you said. Meaty 2K beats all of Ky's wake up options other than Block and Backdash.

The Match is one of Ky's Worst match ups. Up there with Venom and Faust.

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From my own experience:

--Be patient. Ky can control space very well with his pokes, air pokes, and his air Stun Edge. If you're in the air, don't try to approach him if he's on the ground. His 2H is too strong for you to approach.

Nah, I'd be more worried about his 6P, as it will actually beat j.S consistently, which 2H won't.

If he catches you in the air with an ASE, double jump it if you can, and throw out j.S or j.6P to keep him away. If you catch him doing a HS ASE while you're on the ground you can 2K under it or try a run in (be wary if he FRC's). However, if he does the ASE low enough, you'll have to jump it.

Since there's a minimum height requirement on the move, the HS ASE can't possibly hit low enough that you can't run or run+2K under it.

Don't try to out space him. He's shorter than your 5P, so he can hit you with CH SE's or just run in. I'm not sure about getting in closer to 2P him, instead. In my experience, trying to space him with 2P gets him a free IAD in or Greed Sever.

What you want to do is not try to out-space him with POKES. But you CAN stay within max Rensen range and beat out his stun edges on reaction (or just 2K under them and inch closer to him. If he tries to run in, use 3P and 2H (depending on range) which give him a very hard time (2P is not so good in this match.)

At neutral, if the Ky is doing a Charged Stun Edge, if you can't already interrupt him with a poke from where you're at, don't try to force it with a jump in or IAD, because FRC jump CSE is quite problematic to deal with. Just avoid it entirely preferably by getting away so it dissipates, jumping if running away is not an option.

Well, remember that the FRC point on this move is early. If you jump when he starts the move, you should be able to decide whether you should block or IAD in before it's too late.

Patience also pays off in his rushdown. Ky has some pretty mean frame traps, and if the player knows his character, he knows that there are holes in his offense, particularly with the opponent against the wall, where the opponent can jump out. Trying that against a good Ky like that will get you air thrown. Against the wall, his mixup isn't that strong aside from his fast dust. It's trying to get out of the position when he knows that you're trying to get out is what gets you KO'ed. He does this very well with 5S(f.), 2H, and air throw. Eventually, the Ky player will either try a dust or tick throw. Block the dust, and his pressure is over. Tick throws might be a little harder to deal with, but Ky has a slow run, and personally, I haven't played a Ky that goes for tick throws at the wall too often.

Another option is to FD him out. This works a lot better against Ky than it does for other characters, as it ends up restricting his low options to 2S and Stun Dipper (Block stun dipper and you get a free combo if he doesn't F/RC) and his overhead options to just greed sever, while making it much easier to react to tick throw attempts. This also makes it more viable to try to interrupt with a f.S or rensen, or just jump out.

--His midscreen oki is stronger than his wall oki, due to his j.D crossup games. Not much you can do here but learn how to block it.

This man speaks the truth: This is the hardest Ky thing to block and this is where there's no substitute to experience.

--On offense, your 2K goes under his Vapour Thrust, so that can come in mighty handy when going for frame traps if the Ky player likes to VT out of pressure, and gives you a semi-free meaty 2K. If he backdashes your 2K on wakeup, your pressure is done.

A perfect meaty 2K is impossible for Ky to get advantage from, even by backdashing. By perfect meaty, I mean hitting on the last active frame of the move. Master it, and Ky is FUCKED on wakeup. 2K not only goes under vapor thrust, but also either beats out or gives Axl time to block anything he does instead, including RTL, Greed sever, Stun Edge (usually this one is accidental), and even stun dipper. Ky's backdash is 16 frames total, while the recovery of 2K, if you time the meaty right, is 6 frames, so I disagree that backdashing will get Ky out of pressure (Although the Axl has to be ready for it, so it's probably his best option in this scenario)

I agree with Sytha that this match is no problem for Axl.

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The Axl attacks that I have been 6P-ed out of by Ky..let me count the ways... j.S of course(full screen too mind you).. 63214S in the air will go straight through his body so you had better FRC it or just not do it at all.. j.HS..j.K...tk bomber..hmmm..do NOT do anything that causes the stick to go in the 7, 8, or 9 direction AT ALL...That seems to be the best attack.. Advice? Learn to slashback the 3rd hit of charged stun edge and learn to do it very well..

Eh. 6P is good, no doubt, but you can also fuck him up for doing it with JI raeisageki frc games, low j.S (Meaning it'll hit the ground and disappear before he can hit you) and various weird frametraps. Also, SBing CSE is cool, but not necessary, so long as you block low and watch for dusts and tickthrows.

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I noticed there was a thing on ky matchups, and I have 2 questions I can't break out of CSE FRC pressure! What can I do? D: My firend usually goes for a dust, so I just block high, but then he just does a block string like 5P 5K > ... > ... > Whatev. Second, what do I do to deal with j. D Force breaks? He sets them up whenever he can so I can't use any of my chain pokes. What can I do? D:

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I noticed there was a thing on ky matchups, and I have 2 questions

I can't break out of CSE FRC pressure! What can I do? D:

My firend usually goes for a dust, so I just block high, but then he just does a block string like 5P 5K > ... > ... > Whatev.

Just be patient. CSE FRC pressure is pretty solid, but inevitably a gap will eventually open up. I think that if you FD the dust, it can push Ky out significantly enough to make it dangerous for him to try to continue a blockstring, and IBing it might allow you to jump out. I'll pay attention to this more when I next fight Ky (Which I'm sure will be soon.) Keep in mind that Ky can also go for several low options which come out faster than dust, so you should really be blocking low and watching for the dust. If your reaction time is fast enough, you can react to dust, but 5K, 2K, and probably 2D and 2S unless your reaction time is VERY good (To get an idea, my reaction time on a good day is probably just barely fast enough to block 2D, but I wouldn't rely on it), are all too fast to block on reaction. On the other hand, Ky's Dust has 23F of startup, and thus should be easy to react to (Don't get tripped up by the CSE being in the way, you should memorize what the bottom half of the dust animation looks like).

Second, what do I do to deal with j. D Force breaks? He sets them up whenever he can so I can't use any of my chain pokes. What can I do? D:

Again, be patient. Axl will get hit by those standing, so stay a reasonable distance back and just wait it out. If Ky tries to get in, go for 2P, 2H, or 3P on the ground, and wait for him to cross over his projectile in the air, THEN throw out a poke or appropriate AA move if he's up close. If he throws stun edges, just dodge them, or kill them with rensen. If he's just trying to zone you with FB stars, you should be able to punish him for summoning them, since he won't be getting knockdown from far away unless you're being too hasty and letting them hit you.

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A good Axl should never spam chains like 5+P or 2+P in neutral situations... This is even more true against Ky, as his fireballs can kill you. Especially his random/accident ones !

So stop spaming chains, otherwise you'll finish like... This ^^

Posted Image

(Ok, it was just in order to put that picture I just find too good ^^)

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So I played this pretty good Ky player and I just have a lot of problems against him.

In zoning, he stays right outside of my range, putting up a j.D to prevent me from IAD j.S while he does his Stun Edge, and I just don't know how to close the gap. I can't run in since I can't charge Rensen at the same time to throw out and cancel the Stun Edge once I'm in range. And when he rushes in, it's either a straight dash or air dash. So I have to guess whether to use 5p or Rensen (I don't think 5p hits a running Ky), and it's especially bad if I use Rensen and he does air dash, because then he gets a free hit.

And then there's the pressure. Usually by this time I'm backed up into the wall. Aside from Dust being unblockable for me and Greed Sever being semi-unblockable, I just can't break out of the pressure. Every time I think the pressure's ended, I try to throw out a 5k or 2k only to be beaten out by Ky's 2p (I'm assuming this is a frame trap). And then there are the throw mixups, which I don't know how to deal with. And if I try to jump out, Ky jumps too and hits/airthrows me. This is the hardest part of the matchup for me (and probably in general), and I need help especially on how to break out of pressure.

And my rush isn't particularly effective because my opponent's fast reaction time limits me to 2k on oki, and Axl's somewhat slow overheads aren't hitting the mark. Should I be focusing on mixups in my rush or should I try frame traps like my opponent (that was his advice to me)?

chicken block

What does this mean?

(This is assuming you can do a perfect or near-perfect meaty, hitting with the last few active frames).

I don't think I can do a perfect meaty, how do I practice that?

The writeup at the beginning of the thread was quite helpful, and any feedback on my particular problems would help me even more.

Thanks for the help.

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Ky is one of the more common fights I have, though not as common as it used to be because the DigiPen Ky almost never plays and is hella out of practice.

Basically don't jump in. IAD jS works from some distances, but that's not really a jump-in so much as covering your approach. True jump-ins get 6Ped and then you take damage. Ky damage, but still, damage. jH can work fairly effectively in a lot of situations, but I wouldn't say to rely on it, because you shouldn't. If he tries zoning you, Rensen through his Stun Edges. You won't be able to get there in time to oki with anything but 2K, but you shouldn't oki with anything but 2K anyway because 2K is better than Ky. If you need to practice timing it to avoid reversal RTL, get a friend to get down the reversal timing and just practicing 2K vs reversal RTL. EDIT: Originally this said Greed Sever instead of reversal RTL and I don't know why because that doesn't make any sense at all

Also practice your running rensens. It's not that hard, and it's super helpful in this matchup for beating out stun edges while still advancing. If you have already committed to running too far to do a running rensen and you see a stun edge coming, FD break and slashback it, then run in. His stun edge, being an obvious one-hit projectile, can be slashbacked without too much difficulty, though this you will need to practice. Luckily it's not anything more than setting up a training dummy to spam stun edge.

As for throw setups, most of them are super obvious if you FD him out well. I personally always freaking 2K when I see a throw coming even though that doesn't work, but I can tell you that what you should do when you see a throw coming is fairly simple: If you have 25%, Benten S FRC. If it's a throw, you'll beat it (Benten is throw invulnerable), if you're wrong and it's a low he won't get much damage anyway but it still kind of sucks, if you're wrong and he blocks you have pressure and that's not a combo but it's still good. If not or if you don't want to risk anything but still see a throw coming just 1fj and faultless.

You're right about 5P not hitting him standing. If you can, try to do your spacing with fS in this fight, because if generally outranges him and if it counter hits you pretty much get a free combo (or at least pressure if you don't get there and they stagger really well) and it recovers fast enough that if he jumps it you can recover fast enough or at least not get counterhit into free damage. This is one of those fights where you should not try to guess with 5P. It's just not profitable most of the time, and being wrong hurts. 5P is something you need to react with. Same with Rensen, though Rensen's a bit better for various reasons. 2K and to a lesser extent 2H are also pokes you should be using here, and 3P to a lesser extent, but I feel fS is the main one.

I'm not sure about this, but I'm pretty sure that chicken blocking is where you 1-frame jump but instead of only tapping faultless you hold it. Air faultless defends against all hits, so basically at the cost of some tension you avoid their mixup.

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Ky is one of the more common fights I have, though not as common as it used to be because the DigiPen Ky almost never plays and is hella out of practice.

This is some good stuff, but I have some notes:

Basically don't jump in. IAD jS works from some distances, but that's not really a jump-in so much as covering your approach. True jump-ins get 6Ped and then you take damage. Ky damage, but still, damage. jH can work fairly effectively in a lot of situations, but I wouldn't say to rely on it, because you shouldn't.

You can actually fix this problem by using safe air normals and occasionally even baiting the 6P with a kokuu or just faultlessing. But yeah. DGE is dangerous and you don't want to directly contest it.

If he tries zoning you, Rensen through his Stun Edges. You won't be able to get there in time to oki with anything but 2K, but you shouldn't oki with anything but 2K anyway because 2K is better than Ky. If you need to practice timing it to avoid Greed Sever, get a friend to get down the reversal timing and just practicing 2K vs reversal RTL.

Note: Smart Kys will quickly figure out that stunedge won't beat rensen, but f.S will. Ky's f.S has hueg range and will stuff rensen clean, so you can't really rely on it too heavily. 2K is definitely better than Ky though.

Also practice your running rensens. It's not that hard, and it's super helpful in this matchup for beating out stun edges while still advancing. If you have already committed to running too far to do a running rensen and you see a stun edge coming, FD break and slashback it, then run in. His stun edge, being an obvious one-hit projectile, can be slashbacked without too much difficulty, though this you will need to practice. Luckily it's not anything more than setting up a training dummy to spam stun edge.

Again, f.S is a big problem, as it gets really far, really fast, and beats rensen clean. It's also notably harder to slashback.

As for throw setups, most of them are super obvious if you FD him out well. I personally always freaking 2K when I see a throw coming even though that doesn't work, but I can tell you that what you should do when you see a throw coming is fairly simple: If you have 25%, Benten S FRC. If it's a throw, you'll beat it (Benten is throw invulnerable), if you're wrong and it's a low he won't get much damage anyway but it still kind of sucks, if you're wrong and he blocks you have pressure and that's not a combo but it's still good.

The best way to get out of a throw is still jumping, benten can work, but only if you're 100% sure, and that's not a risk I'm usually willing to take. FDing Ky can also be very bad, as a lot of his pokes have good range and he can lock you down pretty bad if you let him. Just learn to spot a tick-throw, rather than relying on FDing.

You're right about 5P not hitting him standing. If you can, try to do your spacing with fS in this fight, because if generally outranges him and if it counter hits you pretty much get a free combo (or at least pressure if you don't get there and they stagger really well) and it recovers fast enough that if he jumps it you can recover fast enough or at least not get counterhit into free damage. This is one of those fights where you should not try to guess with 5P.

Note: Other fights where you should not guess with 5P:

ABA, Anji, Axl, Bridget, Baiken, Chipp, Dizzy, Eddie, Faust, I-No, Jam, Johnny, May, Millia, HOS, Pot, Robot, Slayer, Sol, Testament, Venom, and Zappa.

f.S is a good option against Ky, yes, but it's a good option against most characters, and it's actually slightly less viable here, as Ky's f.S outranges it.

It's just not profitable most of the time, and being wrong hurts. 5P is something you need to react with. Same with Rensen, though Rensen's a bit better for various reasons. 2K and to a lesser extent 2H are also pokes you should be using here, and 3P to a lesser extent, but I feel fS is the main one.

2K and f.S are pretty mainstay in this match. 5H can also be good

I'm not sure about this, but I'm pretty sure that chicken blocking is where you 1-frame jump but instead of only tapping faultless you hold it. Air faultless defends against all hits, so basically at the cost of some tension you avoid their mixup.

Yep, that's right.

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Note: Other fights where you should not guess with 5P:

ABA, Anji, Axl, Bridget, Baiken, Chipp, Dizzy, Eddie, Faust, I-No, Jam, Johnny, May, Millia, HOS, Pot, Robot, Slayer, Sol, Testament, Venom, and Zappa.

Not really seeing the problem with guessing with 5P vs some characters, as a few characters have to see your move coming and do very specific things to get advantage off of it. You should never spam 5P because that takes out the opponent's guessing game, but there's still several characters where anticipating a jump and 5Ping will not particularly hurt you if you're wrong. Johnny comes immediately to mind. Definitely not something to do in most matchups, and this is clearly one of the ones you shouldn't do it, but...

Admittedly I just kind of forgot about Ky's fS. :vbang:

I also was pretty sure I mentioned something about jumping to avoid throws. That was supposed to be in there, so I just edited it in.

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Not really seeing the problem with guessing with 5P vs some characters, as a few characters have to see your move coming and do very specific things to get advantage off of it. You should never spam 6P because that takes out the opponent's guessing game, but there's still several characters where anticipating a jump and 5Ping will not particularly hurt you if you're wrong. Johnny comes immediately to mind. Definitely not something to do in most matchups, and this is clearly one of the ones you shouldn't do it, but...

Okay, you and I might mean different things by "guess." If you're pretty sure they're jumping, then yeah, it's a better idea some times than others.

But just stabbing in the dark in the hopes that it works (whether or not you do it predictably or often) is always a bad idea. You should think about what you're doing, and have a reason for doing it.

Admittedly I just kind of forgot about Ky's fS. :vbang:

f.S is a dirty, dirty move in this match for Ky. Any Ky who hasn't made you wary of it doesn't have Axl experience under his belt.

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