Axl v. Order Sol

[Digital Watches]

Order SOL (stands for Shit Out of Luck)

General strategy:

Order Sol is probably the best example of why Axl's zoning capabilities can be a bitch for close-range characters. He has no viable tools to get in on you, and his real guessing games start at about five character widths closer to you than you ever have to let him get, so this is pretty straightforward. If he does get in, be patient and push him out. If you land a combo, continue your rushdown as long as you can, then run away and zone him some more. Simple.

Zoning and RAPE:

When I say Order Sol can't get in on Axl, I say it with one caveat: The Axl has to be smart. This means you don't throw things out randomly. While SV isn't the world's best DP, it can still beat out chains if you whiff with them, and that can mean you've temporarily lost the ability to keep HOS out. That's why, like I-No, you should employ RAPE (Reactionary Anti-air Poke Entrapment) wherever possible. Lucky for you, HOS gives you ample time to react to anything he can try to do to approach. Throw out 5P only as a reaction to a jump from mid-to-far HOS (BRP counts as a jump). If you time this properly, even if he predicts you and SJIADs over it perfectly, you still have time to block or even punish before he gets in. Use f.S as your primary tool against run-ins, with the occasional 2H or 2P thrown in CAUTIOUSLY as a low from far away (He can punish 2H with a jump-in). Your only real worry should be gunblaze, which is hardly an issue, as you can throw it when he tries to cross you up, or just hit him out of it with 2K or 3P if he doesn't. Other than those specifics, just wait for him to do something, and throw out the right poke at the right time. You won't have much problem keeping him out...

Defense:

...But no one's perfect. Either by being psychic or just catching you at a weak moment, there's a slim chance that a good HOS will somehow be able to get in once or twice per match. Fighting HOS up close is not a cakewalk, but it's nowhere near Axl's worst matchup. The usual "try to FD him into optimal f.S range" works decently, but you can also do some specific things to beat him out: First: Watch his strings and see where he has to do a special to continue. Any LV 1 special can be beaten out with Housou, so IB and try to punish with either that or, in most cases, 2K. Lv. 1 BRP in particular is a bad move for HOS. Even if it connects, you can usually throw him if it's not CH, and if you IB it, it's even more sure. Once you get a throw, I'd go for a knockdown variation, to get some Oki-->Pressure going.

"Runaway" HOS:

It's kind of laughable to say that HOS has a keep-away game, but a lot of HOS players will try to get out of your range and charge up, and since level three is more problematic for you than level one, you should know how to deal with this. Basically, HOS will probably think he's being very smart, because if you try to get him, he can just charge burst and CH you for knockdown, right? Your job is to make him wrong. Go for an IAD j.S, but make sure it's low enough that if he charge bursts, you won't get hit. If he does charge burst, land and rensen immediately. The better option is to run in, but you need a little less distance between you and him to do so. When running in, watch for the charge burst, and if it doesn't come by the time you're right up to him, hit 5K. If the 5K doesn't connect (Meaning he charge-bursted), you have time to recover, block, (Try to IB) and sweep to punish. If he charge bursts before you get close, just FD break the run, and block. From there, do a combo and start your rushdown. The only reversal you need to worry about is SV, which is risky. His supers are either too slow or not invincible enough to work in that capacity.

Pros:

-HOS has few if any approach tools that make Axl guess.

-Normal jump is too low to force Axl to use pokes other than 5P as AA in most situations

-Very vulnerable to Housou

Cons:

-Close in game forces Axl into hard guessing games, since he doesn't have anything fast enough to exploit natural gaps into lows.

-Can do large damage off of throws, which is harmful because Axl is very vulnerable to tickthrows.

-SV is a decently invincible reversal, and Axl's offense can contain gaps large enough to be punished by it.

My opinion:

6-4, Axl's advantage. HOS has a slight advantage once he gets in, but it isn't as noteworthy as Eddie's, Millia's, or Jam's, and getting in in the first place is almost impossibly hard for him, arguably as hard as it is for I-No. 6-4 is a bit generous, but I don't want to call it quite 6.5 either.

[shyo]

I'm having trouble against Order-Sol. The one I'm playing basically spams his specials over and over and when i finally get some ground he knocks me down and starts it all over again. Hitting him while charging doesn't work either, he just makes himself invincible via HS. The only matches I win are either the ones I get a bomber loop off (but most of the time I only get one chance and he just bursts out) or i manage some weird 15 hit combo only using his pokes.

[pbjmixxa]

Which specials are your opponent spamming? - If BHB, use 623P counter. - If Rock-It, use 214P counter and combo off it with 6K-2S-623H-623H for knockdown - If SV, carefully place 623P to catch him in the air so you can dash in and continue the combo after the wallbounce. - If BRP, use 623P counter and continue the combo after the wallbounce. - If Gunblaze, guard and use 623S if he tries to rush in. For opponents who luv to charge-H counter, dash in and FD brake. It's very easy to punish Order-Sol once you block that because of his recovery time. So, basically, when fighting Order-Sol, counters are your best weapon. Once your opponent understands that he can't just rush in and punish it'll force him to be a little more defensive which'll give you a slight advantage.

[shyo]

Hmm. I never really tried the counters as I had some bad experiences in the past with them, I'll give it a try though, thanks! Well, he likes his gunblaze and BHB :\

[Digital Watches]

Um. Sorry PBJ, but, I'd disagree entirely with that solution, or at least say it'll only work once in a while. Who are you playing that this is working against? 623P is great against HOS compared to other characters, but it's still something you don't want to spam. And just DO NOT USE 214P. 214P is, in MOST situations (Potemkin's (4)6H, Faust's Scalpel pull, Sol's VV, and a few others are rare exceptions), a terrible, terrible move. Spamming counters will work against completely inexperienced players, but anyone worth their salt will figure it out and punish the hell out of you for it if you start relying on it as your only option. If anything, use 623P, and only try it if you're doing it on reaction (which is entirely possible, since the move comes out after one frame). One thing is for sure: Counters will scare some people, but most people will realize that they just need to do lows (don't even get me started on the 214K counter). So use counters sparingly, and really, the only time they'll gain you a lot of ground is when you get the 623P to wallbounce into combo, or you're feeling fancy and want to go for the FB. The wallbounce is only going to happen on counterhit with the opponent in the air. In the meantime, most of those can be solved by other means. Some notes: 623S is not a reliable solution to HOS's rushdown (it trades with most things he can do. Axl is too defensively weak to afford getting knocked down every time he tries something.), but can be a good close-in anti-air when you just need that 4-frame startup. It can also be FRC'd for a fairly damaging combo. BRP Lv. 1 is a free throw if you IB it. You can also AA it with 6P, 2S, 623S, or 6K. This is actually a great one to use 623 on, but only once the move is started. Again, if you can't do it on reaction, don't do it. Rock it is almost always beat out by 2K. If you can catch it early enough, you can also beat it with 3P, 6P, f.S, 5H, 2H, or even TK Kokuugeki. Gunblaze is easy to deal with. I usually just jump in the direction HOS is going. That gets you out of the way of the fire, and also, if you're quick enough, you can often hit him with a j.D into combo on your way down before he recovers. If HOS ever gets close enough to hit you with BHB, you're not playing the matchup right, but you can usually see it coming and beat it with 2K or raeisageki. The startup on the move is super-long. Storm Viper is a no-brainer. Block it and aircombo with 6K, 2S or 2S or 5K, 2S. If you can predict it, you can even go for the wacky 63214H, land as quickly as possible, RC into combo. The charging shouldn't even be an issue. You should be throwing 2H, 2P, Rensen, Rashousen, or j.S into that shit. If you want to turn it into offense, run in and throw out a 5K to test the waters (if he hasn't already started the burst. If he starts it while you're running in, FB break and try to IB). If the 5K goes through him, you have well over enough time to block before the burst hits you. His recovery on that move is so long that you basically have a free counterhit anything at this point, so do whatever combo you feel like. This match is easily Axl's, in my opinion, because between his chain pokes, 2H, Rensen, and f.S, Axl has an easy as hell time keeping HOS out, and HOS can't do shit to him from far away. It should be incredibly easy to keep HOS on his toes while not letting him get any good attacks in. Any time he tries something should be an opportunity to nip his attack in the bud, use the counterhit to get a free, easy combo, and then decide between keeping the offense going or just running away and zoning him out some more. Cake, really. Also: Confirmed: 6H v. Crouching eddie will ALWAYS combo into 5K.

[Digital Watches]

Posted this in the Order-Sol forum:

http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showpost.php?p=197819&postcount=137

It's basically a few notes on Axl v. Ordersol, mainly tips for HOS. I'm going to write about this matchup here later, but this is a good thing to read up on. Keep in mind that I would consider this one of Axl's best matchups by far.

[reaVer]

Special spamming OS? If Axl has a low profile low hitter: use it. Ri can be countered by 5K ,5S,2H if timed right. GB is countered by any low move, SV is evaded by lowprofile. Your only problem then would be fafnir and BRP, now you have no reason to let OS reach lvl3, so BRP has -4 on SD, this should allow you to either take action against OS or backdash out of his reach. Fafnirs are reasonably annoying especially because they reach rather far, if you suspect one of those, you might as well do a backward jump, usually fafnirs aren't use in close range meaning that with a backward jump you'd keep the advantage.

[Digital Watches]

Special spamming OS? If Axl has a low profile low hitter: use it. Ri can be countered by 5K, 5S, 2H if timed right. GB is countered by any low move, SV is evaded by lowprofile.

True. The only caveat I'd add is that Axl's low-profile 2k does a terrible job dodging SV. Rock it can also lose to 2K.

[Shoto]

I just checked: Storm Viper doesn't seem to be a move that Axl can evade with a meaty 2K (like for example Kys Vapour Thrust or Jams uppercut).. but you can do a late meaty 3P, which will whiff and allow you to block again should HOS do a reversal SV (if 3P is done near max range SV will even whiff), but if he just blocks it will still hit allowing you to work from there..

[Digital Watches]

Alright. Wrote that up.

[Maniak]

Sure is alot of posting for something that is simply summed up as, Axl > OS the end. That matchup is worse than Chipp vs. Potemkin

[Digital Watches]

Sure is alot of posting for something that is simply summed up as, Axl > OS the end. That matchup is worse than Chipp vs. Potemkin

But I don't look as smart if I just say "lol HOS."

[Hintalove]

Sorry to necro bump, but something on the first page was marginally incorrect. You can safely bait SV with 2k, just not in the same way you bait the lesser dps. If you do it meaty enough you should recover in time to block, it's just not something you can do if you have to close a lot of ground after the kd.

[Digital Watches]

Woah, you're definitely right.