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Digital Watches

Axl v. Axl (mirror match)

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Axl Low:

Overview:

This match is all kinds of stupid. It's worse than Baiken v. Baiken in terms of sheer raw banality. Whereas Baiken v. Baiken is like setting two rocks down and waiting for them to fight, Axl v. Axl is like giving large spears to two hobos and putting them in a sumo ring blindfolded after spinning them around a couple times. Your gameplan is to dick around trying to outpoke this guy until someone gets a knockdown, then rush like there's no tomorrow, since there's not much he can do about it.

Long range:

Axl is a hard character to zone out, as he can cover any range you can. Try to predict what he's going to do and beat it. If he throws out a 2P or 2H, you can IAD or raeisageki in. If he throws a 5P, you can run in or try to tenhouseki it. If he throws out a rensen, go for raeisageki or some other tomfoolery that'll go over or through it (just watch out for the 8 followup.) If his rensen whiffs, just run forward and be ready to FD break. If he tries to jump in, AA him with something. If he tries to run in, hit him with a low. Most of his shit gets beaten by rensen, but be careful about whiffing it, and it'll trade with his dumb green projectile (I think it's called rensen or something). Remember, your AA is better than his Air-to-Ground, so use that. If you can get him blocking or knocked down, you can start your rush.

Rushdown:

Axl's main weakness is his lack of good tools to break out of pressure with. His DAA sucks, and his weak excuses for reversals (some weird projectile counter thing and that terrible DP) get beat out by any low, so go for a lot of those. His high startup on most normals (6+) and 4F jump make him especially susceptible to tickthrows (Or tick-rashou), and it also makes it difficult for him to break out during gaps. Just be careful doing overheads, as your overheads are kind of slow, he has good AA options, and he has a low-profile move that'll go under Bomber. Either way, he's pretty much the best character to rush down, even easier than Eddie, so try not to let up.

Defense:

That dick Watches down at the Axl forums has been telling all the Axl players our darkest secret: Axl has a hard time breaking out of rushdown. So if anyone reads his guide on this matchup, expect them to be riding you pretty hard when they get the chance. To get out of Axl's rush, you need to be able to see his overheads (Bomber, IADs, 6H, and the occasional 5D) and IB like a mofo. FDing isn't that useful, since Axl has a lot of ways to get back in or just attack from a range, such as Rensen FRC, and various gatlings into 2H, 2P, or 5P (His long range moves, in case you didn't know). He even has a long range command grab, which can be hard to get out of if you can't 1FJ. I know it's a pain, but you should really familiarize yourself with Axl's gatlings and J/SCable moves, since that'll clue you in on when there might be gaps. Most of the time, the gaps are largest when Axl tries for an overhead. If you're IBing, you should be able to see it coming and beat it out, depending on what the overhead is. For 6H, 6P and Housou should both work (Benten is a little risky, as if you do it too late, it'll just trade.) For Axl Bomber, you can go under it with low profile 2K, or, if it's not in an air blockstring, just beat it before it starts up with c.S, 5K, or 6P. For IADs, go for regular AA options if you have time, but a good Axl can make it so you just have to block. Raeisageki might be thrown in from time to time, and depending on the preceding string, you might not be able to AA it in time, so block it. Just watch out for the FRC, since that's a common throw setup.

Pros:

-Axl has to think carefully about his zoning in this match, since Axl can punish him at the same range.

-Axl is defensively weak, which makes Axl's usually mediocre-to-moderate rushdown capabilities much more effective.

-4 frame jump makes tick throws and Rashousen setups harder to escape.

-The Axl player might have an aneurysm and die because of how completely stupid this match is.

Cons:

-Axl has to think carefully about his zoning in this match, since Axl can punish him at the same range.

-Axl is defensively weak, which makes Axl's usually mediocre-to-moderate rushdown capabilities much more effective.

-4 frame jump makes tick throws and Rashousen setups harder to escape.

-You might have an aneurysm and die because of how completely stupid this match is.

My opinion:

10-0 Axl's advantage. Axl wins no matter what. :vbang:

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How do I deal with 2H, 6H? this combo is pretty annoying, because it's tough to mash out of and 6H is frame advantage on block. I can jump out before the 6H, but then how should I punish? Is it possible to stick a catch somewhere in there? I always mess it up and get hit with 6H after blocking 2H. Also, should I cut by blockstrings short for a mixup or frame trap, or should I drag them out?

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The best way to deal with it in my opinion is to throw out 214P for the 6H on reaction, which will also catch a dust if it gets thrown after 2H. Also, don't throw out the 214P catch out too early, because it is possible that the opponent could be expecting a catch after 2H is guarded, then you kind of just got baited for punishment. It is best to grab it on reaction instead of throwing it out as the 2nd hit of 2H is guarded. 6H and dust have plenty of start up, giving you just enough time to react to them. I am not sure if the case is the same if it is fairly close range 6H. I haven't messed around with it too much and I haven't been in many axl battles, but I do know that will work vs 2H, 6H.

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I think he is talking about getting hit by 2H, not guarding it. I would just try to mash out of the 2H and then try to guard the 6H. After guarding 6H you can either backdash, jump or try and counter his move if he is predictable with his follow ups after 6H.

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A. If you block 2H, DO NOT THROW OUT TENHOUSEKI. Remember that 2H is cancelable into 6H at any time during the move, including between hits. If you're able to IB the second hit, just IB the 6H as well, and you get a free punish with 5K or whatever you want, really. Throwing out a tenhouseki can give Axl enough time to go for 2K, which means you're eating another combo. If you're talking about 2H-6H as a hitting combo... it's almost a real combo, meaning that at stagger level 3, you're not getting out of it. Good news is, that's the end of the combo unless they decide to RC. If you CAN stagger out, just IB the 6H. It's fairly punishable if it's not done either from a distance where it can't be followed up, or made meaty somehow, which you can't do in the middle of a combo anyway, so just IB and throw out 5K.

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Also, should I cut by blockstrings short for a mixup or frame trap, or should I drag them out?

Either way. If you think you can mix them up, by all means go for it. If you're going to drag them out, though, try to go for cool stuff that builds up guard bar, as that's the best way to get good damage later, and can also make your opponent a bit antsy. Maybe cut the whole thing and just go for a tick throw.

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For my experience vs AXL, while blocking 2H you need to be aware cause 6H can come out at any moment during the 2 hits, if they throw a 6H I do a Houso counter because it's a 1frame counter and give me the time to see if the 6H is coming or not.

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For my experience vs AXL, while blocking 2H you need to be aware cause 6H can come out at any moment during the 2 hits, if they throw a 6H I do a Houso counter because it's a 1frame counter and give me the time to see if the 6H is coming or not.

I'd still say just blocking is safer, but at least that's not completely stupid. :yaaay:

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I wasn't implying that you would throw out 214P counter during 2H and assume the 6H is coming. I am saying there is plenty of time between the two hits of 2H and the 6H hitting you to throw out 214P counter on reaction (depending on the distance between the two of you, I suppose.) and I still hold my ground on thinking that is a viable solution to the attack, resulting in a nice chunk of damage (depending on screen positioning.) or a knockdown, giving you the advantage again. Now I realize you can turn 2H into 6H at any time during the hits, but the fact is unless you RC the 2H, the only options they have is to either do 6H, dust, or nothing. Houso counter and IBing are also viable solutions, especially when there is a shorter distance between you and the 6H. Its all opinionated in the end, but I would not call my solution a bad idea.

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I wasn't implying that you would throw out 214P counter during 2H and assume the 6H is coming. I am saying there is plenty of time between the two hits of 2H and the 6H hitting you to throw out 214P counter on reaction (depending on the distance between the two of you, I suppose.) and I still hold my ground on thinking that is a viable solution to the attack, resulting in a nice chunk of damage (depending on screen positioning.) or a knockdown, giving you the advantage again. Now I realize you can turn 2H into 6H at any time during the hits, but the fact is unless you RC the 2H, the only options they have is to either do 6H, dust, or nothing. Houso counter and IBing are also viable solutions, especially when there is a shorter distance between you and the 6H. Its all opinionated in the end, but I would not call my solution a bad idea.

I dunno, if you insist on throwing out a solution dependent on 6H coming out, do something for more damage, like 5K or something. That not only is a solution that nets you more damage if successful, but doesn't leave you a sitting duck if they go for recover-->Something else. This is especially true in meaty 2H setups wherein the attacking Axl would be at frame advantage on block. There's also the fact that if you DO throw out 214P, and it turns out they're not going for 6H or 5D, there's ample time for them to recover and throw out something else. Even if they don't have time to hit you, you've now lost the frame advantage you might have gained from blocking 2H, and end up having to block more. I don't mean to insult you or anything, but any way you look at it, it's really a sub-optimal option at best.

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Agree with DW argument, if you know that you got better things after a blocked 2H don't try the other things, the more damage you do the more scarier you'll be

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What about Axl's late 6H on wakeup. It beat reversal Benten (S and H) and Housubako. Is it usefull? sorry for my english. :vbang:

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What about Axl's late 6H on wakeup. It beat reversal Benten (S and H) and Housubako. Is it usefull?

sorry for my english. :vbang:

Well, useful, yeah, but no moreso than against anyone else, so it didn't deserve a special mention.

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