[CS2] Lambda vs Bang

[kenja0]

Matchup: 4-6

"Are you what they call, 'com-pew-tur?'"

-Bang

One of the biggest changes in match-ups since CS1 (the other being Litchi). Bang got smacked with the combo nerfs- now he is less noob friendly, but that doesn't mean he isn't one of Lambda's biggest threats.

Bang is a highly mobile character, similar to Taokaka: he has 2 jumps and air dashes, nails that grant him screen control and additionally faster 8-way air dashes, Burning Heart that gives him teleports, and Fu-rin-ka-zan which grants him up to 3 attack cancelling air dashes in the air and infinite attack cancelling dashes on the ground. He is maneuverable. It takes skill and mastery to utilize all of these tools available to him, but when you come across one, it's scary.

Bang's Rushdown

Bang has possibly the best mix up of the cast. He carries multiple normals of varying speeds that can hit (2) overhead or (5, including 6D) low. He has a good cross-up move (j.4B) that he can use with his two air dashes, usually used after a jump cancelable move as on option. He also has a command grab in the air and on the ground (623C) that can be used after staggering some normals, nails or punishing premature aerial techs. It's a daunting task to defend against, but it is possible to block all of his pressure.

The big overheads are his 6B and his 5C. 6B is a flip kick that gives him lower body invincibility. This kick can't combo unless Lambda is CH with it. 5C is a shoulder that forces Lambda to crouch when hit and can combo well after it. Bang can gatling 5C into 6B or a low, so watch out.

This Burning Heart

Burning heart is Bang's drive. It gives him various guard points in specific parts his body that allow him to teleport after successfully absorbing a hit, including projectiles. This makes a joke out of a lot of Lambda's moves, especially 214D which is usually used as screen control. A full screen Bang, BHing a sword can put him right inside Lambda's defense. The best advice for this is to simply be cautious of it. Bang has to time these Burning Hearts to get in and luckily, if we punish him, we can score free combo damage.

One thing to be aware of is to never let Bang get 4 Burning Hearts...

Nail Throws

Bang carries 12 nails at the start of every round to work with. He can throw 4 different types of nails:

j.236A: Poison Nail. This is a common nail for Bang to randomly throw out. If he hits, he deals some damage and poisons the character for 1200 damage over a 10 second period. If you hit Bang, the poison automatically goes away. One thing to note is the angle that the nail is thrown out is much more horizontal than the others.

j.236B: Explosion Nail. This nail hits coming down, bounces up and explodes momentarily after. The only time you would actually see this nail come out is during pressure against jumping or a combo. Travels at a 45 degree angle.

j.236C: Web Nail. This nail traps the opponent in a web that stuns them for an extended amount of time. This is used in combos and can possibly lead into supers... Travels at a 45 degree angle.

j.236D: Multi-Nail. This is Bang's most used nail. Bang throws 3 nails of varying angles at the same time. The nails bounce off the ground and angle upward. During Bang's blockstrings, he can jump cancel into this nail to reset his pressure. He can also use this for massive screen control that can also crush Lambda's swords (each of them can crush 1 of her projectiles). Luckily, it's pretty hard for Bang to combo after a hit from 1 of these nails and it costs 3 nails for him to use. Lambda is also maneuverable enough to go through a sweet spot in the nails by jumping and delay an air dash back.

Nail Dashes

Fu-rin-ka-zan

Lyrics: Bang, bang bang bang. He's a super ninja guy. He's gonna f*** your shit up all day long...

I'll update with feedback

[toanenadiz]

If the Bang player is getting cross-over happy with doing blockstrings and jump-cancelling it to a j4B, you can jump and air throw him out of it.

Be mindful of Bang trying to drive his way out of 236D oki. Punish him accordingly so he starts respecting our oki.

And I would recommend bursting to prevent Bang from getting 4 seals if you have to. Unless some great Lambda has come up with a plan on dealing with it.

[cookiehours]

Argh, still have issues with this matchup. His freaking crossups annoy me. D:

[someonewhodied]

Ok. I think I've gathered enough info for this matchup from battling a very good bang player and getting my ass kicked across the pacific. (I'm SOOO close to beating him sometimes)

Just 6A Bang's aerials and then you can combo 5C>2C>Air Ender.

When you are on the ground blocking, Mash Block and 1A(2A but with blocking still). You can knock bang out of some of his C and D attack segments of his blockstrings.

Bang teleporting to you using your sickle? Follow up sickle with 2C.

Nails? Space yourself and 5C the nails.

[tuka]

Ok. I think I've gathered enough info for this matchup from battling a very good bang player and getting my ass kicked across the pacific. (I'm SOOO close to beating him sometimes)

Just 6A Bang's aerials and then you can combo 5C>2C>Air Ender.

When you are on the ground blocking, Mash Block and 1A(2A but with blocking still). You can knock bang out of some of his C and D attack segments of his blockstrings.

Bang teleporting to you using your sickle? Follow up sickle with 2C.

Nails? Space yourself and 5C the nails.

You are playing some horrible players online.

[ktx1]

Ok. I think I've gathered enough info for this matchup from battling a very good bang player and getting my ass kicked across the pacific. (I'm SOOO close to beating him sometimes)

Just 6A Bang's aerials and then you can combo 5C>2C>Air Ender.

When you are on the ground blocking, Mash Block and 1A(2A but with blocking still). You can knock bang out of some of his C and D attack segments of his blockstrings.

Bang teleporting to you using your sickle? Follow up sickle with 2C.

Nails? Space yourself and 5C the nails.

So you just mash 2a when getting pressured by bang and this works? I knew i was doing something wrong.

[toanenadiz]

Ok. I think I've gathered enough info for this matchup from battling a very good bang player and getting my ass kicked across the pacific. (I'm SOOO close to beating him sometimes)

Just 6A Bang's aerials and then you can combo 5C>2C>Air Ender.

When you are on the ground blocking, Mash Block and 1A(2A but with blocking still). You can knock bang out of some of his C and D attack segments of his blockstrings.

Bang teleporting to you using your sickle? Follow up sickle with 2C.

Nails? Space yourself and 5C the nails.

Bang has multiple ways of baiting out Lambda's 6A, so I find it better to use the time he is in the air to maneuver into a position where his stuff would whiff and go from there.

Mashing against Bang is a very bad thing. He has very good frame traps and gets good damage from counter hits.

5C'ing nails is just asking to get punished. 5C should always be making contact with the opponent if you throw it out. It has far too much recovery and too small of a hitbox to use any other way. It is a much better solution to end up in the holes of the D-nails and use swords to hinder his approach.

[atdsutm]

i find it annoying usually when bang jump cancels into j.4B, and usually ends his blockstrings into firepunch. how do you usually get out of his air pressure j.5B.

i also block string my way out his pressure with 5a into 236A

[toanenadiz]

When Bang jump cancels into j4B, just air throw him out of it. You can also 236A out of there.

Firepunch is minus on block so his pressure is over. Always IB it in case the Bang was stupid and did it within 2B punish range.

Not quite sure what j5B pressure you are talking about. Could you elaborate on that?

[atdsutm]

it was j4b mixup sorry for typo, when he does jump cancels from his pressure and into it but he usually also sometimes hits me out of the air when i try to airthrow him. etc. i thought i needed to 6A the j4b thing. could i backdash it too?

in most of his combos when do i optimally use burst? including when he obviously RC his command throw.

and what in general should i do to outzone him, since he has some ranged tool to counter me and plays differently from the usual ragna, noe andl makoto running that im used at.

[toanenadiz]

I don't know if you can backdash j4B. I have never had an issue throwing Bang out of it. If he is hitting you out of a throw, you are either throwing too late or he is using a different move to stop your throw. In the 2nd case, you can just escape on the ground.

Fire Punch is always a good place to burst. He would have to RC it in order to do anything about your burst.

It is hard to give a general strategy to zone Bang. It would be easier if you could give a situation that you are having an issue with.

[lilseph]

You SHOULD be able to just dash out of Bang's j4B. I've never had a problem with it so i can't really give an specifics because when i see it coming my fingers kind of just move accordingly. Its really tough to zone him due to the fact that he has two air dashes, he can teleport to you with his D attacks, and his nails are a pain.

I agree with pretty much everything Toan has said so far. Can anyone throw out a situation their having trouble with? That would help a lot because Lambda for the most part in on the back foot.

OH and one last thing, you can throw out a 5D and catch bang before he techs on the ground (assuming he doesn't automatically tech) and you can start up an air combo (maybe 5D > 236C?) its surprising how many people don't know about this.

[someonewhodied]

I just block low, wait for a 5C and Mash 2A out. (or 2B if hes too far) OR 6A if he tries to aerial overhead me.

And yeah. 6A didn't always work for me. When it does though, I get ~3K and get Bang across the stage into the other corner. (I normally have 50% heat by then)

Clashing 5C with nails leaves me open though when the bang is too far and tries to cross over and hit me, he just gets hit. (Airhit 5Cx8>4B(2) anyone?)

But yeah, the few times that those things I stated work is enough to net me enough damage to win. (2C CH=Big damage as you all know)

OH and one last thing, you can throw out a 5D and catch bang before he techs on the ground (assuming he doesn't automatically tech) and you can start up an air combo (maybe 5D > 236C?) its surprising how many people don't know about this.

The most you can do is 5DD.

Most people I play know never to forward or backward roll against lambda.

[toanenadiz]

He isn't talking about forward/backward roll(right?). He is talking about when the person refuses to tech. and stays on the ground. Bang has had a fat hitbox since CT when he is knocked down and could always be picked up with 5DD into air combo. Tager, Rachel and Valk can also be picked up with 5DD->236C if they refuse to tech as well.

[lilseph]

He isn't talking about forward/backward roll(right?). He is talking about when the person refuses to tech. and stays on the ground. Bang has had a fat hitbox since CT when he is knocked down and could always be picked up with 5DD into air combo. Tager, Rachel and Valk can also be picked up with 5DD->236C if they refuse to tech as well.

Yeah this is what I was trying to say, couldn't quite word it properly.

[someonewhodied]

Oh. Well I knew that much, but anyone that I play does a normal tech when I shoot 5D so I never gave the pickup much thought.

[atdsutm]

It is hard to give a general strategy to zone Bang. It would be easier if you could give a situation that you are having an issue with.

-situations where he could throw a D nail and forces me to block into a mixup.

-situations where he could double dash and its hard to decide to 6D and 2D (6A or dashing forward/backward solution?)

-situations where he is very far and what Drive move should i use to be able to block his guard point drive

-should i use gravity seed for zoning and against command throw?

-how to specifically counter/interrupt/punish each of Bang's drive move

-what do i usually do when Bang jumps against my spike chaser

[lilseph]

-situations where he could throw a D nail and forces me to block into a mixup.

...Well we are talking bout zoning here, so if you are mid screen i find that his D nails are most effective for him. At mid screen I'm fairly sure you can crouch under the top two nails and only be in block stun for the nail lowest to the ground, from there you can bash dash it. Full screen is easy, just find a gap in the nails and proceed from there, the nails will fly further apart from each other so the gap will widen. D nails are one of his best options to get in so there really is no clear cut way to get around them, just find a gap or just try and block only one of them. As a quick side note, most Bang players will run in a straight line towards you because its the fastest option towards Lambda, maybe you can use that bit of knowledge to your advantage such as... when you find a gap j.2D.

-situations where he could double dash and its hard to decide to 6D and 2D (6A or dashing forward/backward solution?)

I'm assuming you mean double air dash, and if that's the case then again there are no real clear cut indicators to use 6D or to use 2D. You can spot little things such as if he super jumps in the air, maybe you want to 2D instead of 6D (and if he regular jumps 6D instead of 2D in most situations). This is a guessing game for him just as much as it is for you, make him feel insecure about what hes doing. What i like to do is back dash , which will bait out either another forward air dash to gain even more ground on you, then act accordingly, OR if you back dash he will dash backwards in the air because he wont feel safe to further approach you. Another thing i really like to do is just simply dash underneath him, most Bang players will chase after you with their second air dash so just be ready to 2D or 6A or some sort of AA. All in all I find it to risky to just throw out a 6D or a 2D, I'll go for the safer option of just dashing or back dashing.

-situations where he is very far and what Drive move should i use to be able to block his guard point drive

After your basic B&B aerial combo, you should knock him away to the other side of the screen with J.214D. Sometimes Bang will quick get up and 2D or 6D(?) and teleport towards you. IIRC correctly it beats every D attack you can throw out which is why it can be a pain in the ass. But at the same time its extremly easy to bait and punish for a huge damaging combo. Which is why i said sometimes Bang players will use it because its a whole, high risk high reward situation. Don't quote me on this but i think if you 214D or 236D on his wake up and he guard points it you can probably jump and punish it, as long as you jump his 2D and 6D wont hit you(?).

-should i use gravity seed for zoning and against command throw?

I stay away from using gravity seed for zoning, just a personal preference TBH. I can't really see it being all that useful to zone him but at the same time I've never really experimented with it before so by all means go for it. Against command throw, again I've never tried using gravity seed to stuff it because I almost always use 5A or 2A to stop that damn command throw. I'm sure there something in the frame data that says yes you can use it against Bang's command throw, or no you cannot, but I'm way to lazy to actually look at those numbers;)

-how to specifically counter/interrupt/punish each of Bang's drive move

Bangs 5D hits mid and covers mid and high but does not cover low so you can just 2B or 3C him when he 5D's. His 2D hits mid(?) and covers mid and low but does not cover high so you can hit him with a high attack (lol 632146D). I won't even go into his other D attacks because quite frankly i don't know much about the others so i don't want to give you false information. General rule of thumb against Bangs D attacks are just to bait them out and punish, as I said before its a high risk high reward situation for him so he won't throw them out every single time just because it will get predictable.

-what do i usually do when Bang jumps against my spike chaser

2D? I very rarely spike chaser against Bang because of his D attacks and his D nails clash with it, i just find that your time spent using spike chaser can be better used positioning yourself to react to whatever he is doing. That's purely my opinion keep in mind so if you want to use spike chaser by all means go for it, its an amazing zoning tool and should be used accordingly, but at the same time it could potentially put you in a bad spot so i really like to play it safe, its just the way i play lambda.

I hope this helped in anyway, please feel free to ask any question about what i said. Also take this with grain of salt, I'm not the greatest player around but i know my fair share about the MU so I'm just throwing this out there.

[someonewhodied]

-situations where he could throw a D nail and forces me to block into a mixup.

236A out to under him if you have time and follow up with 6A. Or 5C clash the nails if you are full screen away. Dunno what to do midscreen

-situations where he could double dash and its hard to decide to 6D and 2D (6A or dashing forward/backward solution?)

6D if he is far, 2D if he is close, 6A if he is right next to you.

-situations where he is very far and what Drive move should i use to be able to block his guard point drive

Use a wheel, and follow up with 2C(3 to 5 hits only, the guard point will make it easy to count) and then if you gatling into 5C, you will get a guarenteed counter hit. If he blocks instead of using drive, you still have time to get him into a 5A>followup blockstring.

-should i use gravity seed for zoning and against command throw?

Use it for big damage and to counter command throw. Its useless for zoning since Bang can teleport out if you hit him on a guardpoint or make it dissapear by hitting you with a nail

-how to specifically counter/interrupt/punish each of Bang's drive move

When I am up close (When bang has under 50% heat) I ALWAYS go 6A>2B>2C because then I can get a counter no matter which drive he uses, or I can go 5C>4B for high, 2147D for high, 3C for low, or 236B for low if he blocks.

-what do i usually do when Bang jumps against my spike chaser

Don't use it outside of combos. Bang can safely teleport to you and get a free CH or he can poison nail you and run all day for ~1K damage.

[atdsutm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29htvsytqHI&list=PL97FDCC6CE23F7474&index=3&feature=plpp_video

heres a vid fighting a bang player, pls rate and comment and HELP ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

anyways what are lambda's optimum combo punishes for each of Bang's drive?

[someonewhodied]

Shorthand terms only i use because im crazy and lazy:

TK: TK crescent/2147D

Low gravity combo (When opponent is close to ground): 6A>TK>66A>6C>236C OR 2DD>TK>66A>6C>236C OR Back up>4B(2)>2DD>TK>5D(wait)D>236C

High gravity combo (When opponent is higher up after gravity): 9j.5C>j.2C>j.214D>5B>6A/2C OR 2DD>TK>66A>6C>236C OR TK>5Cx(three to 5)>6C>236C

Ender: (2DD)>j.5DD/j.5C>j.2DD/j.2C>dj.5DD/dj.5C>j.2DD>j.2C>j.214D/j.632146D

Corner Loop: 5CxN>6C>236C

Corner Ender: Dash under>214D, Dash under>2147D~C>[44/wait 664B/wait 662B/66j.5B), 3C>236A>4BC

Air drive:

6A(CH)>Dash>3C>214A>Low Gravity combo>Ender/corner loop+corner ender

or

2C(CH)>214A>High Gravity Combo>Ender/corner loop+corner ender

or

2D(CH)D>214A>High Gravity Combo>Ender/corner loop+corner ender

Ground Drive:

6A(Guardpoint)>2C(CH)5Cx8>4B(2)>2DD>214A>High Gravity Combo>Ender/corner loop+corner ender

2Cx3(Guardpoint)>5C(CH)>236C>2DD>wait>214A>Low Gravity Combo>Ender/corner loop+corner ender

Theres better ones but these are easy and you almost never screw them up.

CS Extend will be so awesome with the 2C buff. Head invincibility will make this matchup so easy. And the Tao matchup will be better

And 2C will be able to stop all of Jin's ice cars.

[atdsutm]

CS Extend will be so awesome with the 2C buff. Head invincibility will make this matchup so easy. And the Tao matchup will be better

And 2C will be able to stop all of Jin's ice cars.

it will still depend on how good 2C is in terms of invincibility frames

[someonewhodied]

From what ive seen it isn't THAT much better, but its enough to replace 6A for anti-airs.

[atdsutm]

how about its proration?, how much damage could we do out from it?

[someonewhodied]

I've heard its 80% now instead of 100% so i doubt we can do as much as in CS2