Anji vs. Axl Low

[TheSlyMoogle]

Reserved for later

[Dawnbringer]

This matchup rating used to be 7-3 Axl's favour,but it's really not.However,this does test the Anji player's patience. My rating: 6-4 Axl's favour. Axl's pokes is where this gets hard.His 4P pokes doesn't allow you to jump in without FDing and will hit a standing Anji,although you can Fuujin through this to get in his face (you don't necessarily hit him,but at least you got through his crap).1p hits low,thus allowing you to IAD in.2S nets him an axl bomber combo,so avoid double jumping towards him(AND ALWAYS FD).[4]6S will ruin most attempts to get in (even if you IAD,the 8 or 2 extension protects him).Don't even try to autoguard against axl at long range. However,once you get close.This is the part where Axl struggles a little more.He does have several options still,he can try to counter,use a shoryuken,or just plain block.This gets a little messy if the axl you face likes to spam counters.Stomps aren't exactly the best move of choice here since it's more easy to react to than most of anji's moves(unless you cross him).If axl jumps in on you,and you sense him trying an aerial 623HS,pull out a 2S immediately.YOU WILL DOUBLE WHIFF IF YOU USE 2S A FEW MOMENTS BEFORE HIS MOVE,but you recover faster.YOU WILL CH IF YOU USE 2S ON THE SAME STARTUP(and get a juicy combo)!AND YOU WILL EAT THAT IF YOU START LATER THAN HIM.But...you can also autoguard if you want tension instead of raw damage. When in an Axl blockstring,he will usually continue with a 6HS (laggy,but since he has frame advantage in that blockstring,it won't matter) or end it with a [4]6S.You can punish the 6HS with HS Fuujin OR 6k autoguard.Also,look out for a [4]6HS.That's an unblockable,he can also fake it to bait a jump in,so jump FD!

[Tiamat]

I still say 7-3 or 6.5-5.5 at best. As dawnbringer said, lots of jump FDs and dash brakes would be helpful as well. At far distance you can use zoning butterfly without much risk and it may help you get in. If you bore axl enough he may try to come in on you so keep your eye out for when he tries to do that. Otherwise you'll have to get in on him sooner or later, which is a pain.

[Digital Watches]

Yeah, sadly, I agree. I've never felt threatened by an Anji, and there are several good reasons this matchup is still probably one of the worst in the game (up there with eddie-pot). Frankly, an Axl who can block properly has nothing to fear from Anji, even up close, since shitsu gives Axl time to poke, and Fuujin is easy to block on reaction regardless of which followup you use, and can be punished if anticipated. You can actually fuujin through rashousen (Which will also beat the fake version before Axl recovers) if you get the timing down, and discouraging Axl from using it breaks one of his more common mixup games, but that's pretty much the only edge Anji has. I wish I could say more about how to win this besides just being really solid and not making any mistakes... but I'm at a loss. It's a REALLY bad matchup . Also, to dawnbringer: Real Axls will often mix in other specials (Raei?), normals (2H, 5D, 2D) and IADs instead of always going for 6H, and a rensen will almost never be the "end" of a blockstring if the Axl has meter.

[Tiamat]

that's helpful about the fujin through rashousen/fake rashousen. sadly I don't play against axl enough to build up a reflex to start doing that. >_> patience is a virtue. also switching characters for this matchup is a virtue. lol

[Makubex]

walk and block dun really have another way to explain it just walk and block dun run stick to walking be safe and block well hell run out of stage soon enough and once ur in he should have trouble getting out he doesnt really have any special ways of dealing with u once ur in so just mixup away

[Tiamat]

the very few times I've played vs an axl he did have a lot of trouble getting out once I got in but I'm aware he has some options, I just don't know the weaknesses of them i know he has those counters and he has that DP esque move. do they activate from frame 1? cause that would matter when he's waking up especially. is there some sort of problem with his DP that im not aware of? cause I don't hear it mentioned much

[Digital Watches]

Axl actually has two DPs, but neither is fully invincible. They're just throw invincible, and one is upper-body, the other is lower-body. So it's a guessing game at best a lot of the time, and not really worth trying. Meanwhile, I'd like to know from makubex why running is such a bad idea. Why not just FD break the run? And also, what mixup would you use once you're in?

[Tiamat]

oh I see, I always wondered about that. agreed about the FD braking, you could walk too but doesn't cover as much ground. does axl have anything he can use as a wakeup reversal that goes through butterfly? maybe his upper body invulnerable DP? I assume his counters dont activate instantly so you wouldn't be able to do that, but I could be wrong.

[Digital Watches]

oh I see, I always wondered about that.

agreed about the FD braking, you could walk too but doesn't cover as much ground.

does axl have anything he can use as a wakeup reversal that goes through butterfly? maybe his upper body invulnerable DP? I assume his counters dont activate instantly so you wouldn't be able to do that, but I could be wrong.

Well, the main thing is that he just has a lot of tools to hit anji out of whatever he tries to pressure with along with the butterfly, not the least of which is 2K, which also buys him some time before the thing hits him. But no, no real reversals to speak of (although if your meaty isn't perfect, the counter is active on frame 2).

[Makubex]

his pokes vary in speed so i find it annoying sometimes when ur not moving around much and they notice they are not gonna get you to run into their pokes they start becoming frustrated and start throwing out alot of stuff at the same time and about covering space ur in no hurry most of the time hes gonna run out of stage in just a while lol . I dont see what the issue is when it comes to pressuring him lol is just like pressuring any other character except this one has a horrible dp that has absolutely no range lol to hit u with it he has to move forward and do it cuz otherwise it just wiffs you cant even argue that he has stuff to hit u out of butterfly cuz everyone does and his are just pokes just like everyone else lol thats like saying that eddie is hard to pressure becuz he can do 2s and it might hit u if u dun stop running into it just about everyone can do this depending on what move u used to put out the butterfly

[Tiamat]

agreed:toot:

[JinSaotome]

Just a thought: Would sj.D be an effective tool in this matchup? I know Axl has issues with characters being directly over his head, so can you sj.D into his blind spotand land with something like j.S into pressure?

[Digital Watches]

Just a thought: Would sj.D be an effective tool in this matchup?

I know Axl has issues with characters being directly over his head, so can you sj.D into his blind spotand land with something like j.S into pressure?

That could work. I'd test it though: Do both c.S and 2S fail to hit him after the j.D and before the j.S? If I saw an Anji doing that, I'd try those two, as well as 5H and a plain old airthrow, but since I haven't had an Anji try that against me, I don't know how viable those options really would be. Just know that getting in the air is risky business as a general rule.

EDIT: Oh, and Mabubex: If I'm reading what you're saying right, you're exactly right. Axl doesn't have anything in particular to get out of pressure that's better than anyone else agaisnt Anji, so pressure game should be the same as it is against anyone else. The problem is, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's not exactly Anji's strong suit. I've never seen an Anji player keep up pressure on block for long without doing something risky and beatable or landing a hit and restarting with oki, and frankly, Anji's mixup isn't that terrifying. The problem with the Axl-Anji matchup isn't that it's particularly hard to pressure Axl, it's that Anji isn't that good at keeping up pressure, and keeping up pressure is exactly what most characters should be doing to beat Axl.

[Kyoku]

From what I've seen of this match Axl does actually have ways to deal with some of Anji's tricks in ways other characters don't. Axl can easily react to Fuujin mid pressure and Rins with 214P turning into momentum lost and a chunk of life lost. Pressuring without use of Fuujin is a bit harder to do. You have less mix up options and are fairly predictable at that point. Using Fuujin during pressure is usually where you can catch your opponent by doing the risky things Anji is all about, but if you are just fishing for a counter with normals or a 2D than its unlikely you will get anywhere. Axl players tend to be patient and would likely rather wait for you to do something risky and counter you or go for a DE than try to poke out. As for butterfly, I don't believe Axl has much to work with that other characters don't. I'll add more later, I'm going to be late for work :O

[Digital Watches]

Er... What's DE? Also, replace 214P with 623P.

[Klaige]

I think there may be some misunderstanding about "pressure" and it's usage here. Anji has decent pressure that relies on taking some lobsided risk reward options to maintain it. Where his strength is, is in the okizeme/mixup area. Anji's mixup is really good on Oki, and Axl is easy to handle with it because he lacks a reliable reversal move. The problem in this match is that when it's played right Anji may never get in close enough to knock axl down in the first place. Make no mistake, this is anji's worst fight in this game. Argueably one of the worst matchups in all of Accent core.

[Kyoku]

Er... What's DE?

Also, replace 214P with 623P.

Opps, I meant DA :P

I've actually played a few Axls that catch me with 214P consistently out of my Fuujins AND Rins. Non FB Rin is a terrible terrible idea against Axl from what I've seen because of how slow it is and easy to catch or stop, but even FB Rin isn't too fast to catch. The damage/knockdown options seem to be better from 214P anyhow, though 623P is faster. I suppose it all depends on the player. But I have been caught quite a bit using both.

[Klaige]

Regular rin outside of a combo for knockdown is pretty much always a terrible idea. The risk/reward for using it is very very rarely in Anji's favor. I won't call the move useless, theres always a situation that it can be handy, but it honestly has become one of the most laughable moves in the game. And yes you do have to use some caution dealing with axls catch counters. In general just don't get predictable or cute with your frame traps and such, and don't be blatently obvious about throwing fuujin.

[Harem]

I think there may be some misunderstanding about "pressure" and it's usage here. Anji has decent pressure that relies on taking some lobsided risk reward options to maintain it. Where his strength is, is in the okizeme/mixup area. Anji's mixup is really good on Oki, and Axl is easy to handle with it because he lacks a reliable reversal move. The problem in this match is that when it's played right Anji may never get in close enough to knock axl down in the first place.

Make no mistake, this is anji's worst fight in this game. Argueably one of the worst matchups in all of Accent core.

Hmm, I'd def agree that it's bad for the butterfly man but worse than Jam or May?

[Digital Watches]

And yes you do have to use some caution dealing with axls catch counters. In general just don't get predictable or cute with your frame traps and such, and don't be blatently obvious about throwing fuujin.

Well, that's exactly why I advocate 623P over 214P. If you're using the former, 90% of fuujins should be reactable. The ones that aren't would be S Fuujins in blockstrings.

[Klaige]

Hmm, I'd def agree that it's bad for the butterfly man but worse than Jam or May?

May is nearly as bad.

Jam is bad, but is easier to get the big hit on compared to May/Axl. Sweep can actually shut down puffballs to an extent.

And watches, I agree a catchcounter going in 3 frames is huge, especially for a flowing trap/pressure character like anji. I don't play axl much but I would assume there are lot of places where you can throw a poke, make it look punishable with HS Fuujin and then cover your ass with the counter.

[Sking]

From my expeirence fighting anji(very good anji player)anji can't do blockstrings and mixups that well cause axl got an answer to it: If anji uses a stomp I air thow it ALWAYS even if is FRC'ed. Rin= to Death. Oki Butterfly, not a problem: 623p when the butterfly comes down/ Raei S if anji waits/backdash/Run and throw/ S(f). FD make space and axl can use 2 hits chains to kill him. So I said anji has to be very very carefull about what he does cause axl can make him pay very hard if he try something risky, so this match is all about mind games and make things safe for anji he wants to win. P.S.: I wonder how Lime key managed to beat Shuuto in SBO, I still have nightmares thinking about it.

[Dawnbringer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXCU-dBOejw

Maybe it's similar to this match...?

[Digital Watches]

LOL. Who is this Kiabui guy? Even his basics are questionable.