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Dusty

[CS2] Hazama vs. Jin

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Matchup Ranking:Even, Maybe slightly in Hazama's favor.

Recommended Playstyle: Defensive, Play really good neutral game and run away.

General Strategy:

DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT FUCK WITH HIS AIR NORMALS. Jin's J.B, J.C, and J.2C have some sort of voodoo magic behind them which makes them shit all over your air normals and 5A anti air. Jin's J.C has alot more range and has a better hitbox than Hazama's J.B and he will beat you CLEANLY out of the air alot. Jin's jump ins, J.B and J.2C can only be beaten by Hazama's 2C and 214D~B but these will only work with you do them preemptively as they are quite slow. Play the match slow and run away alot, they way you're going to win this match is by making Jin impatient and waiting for him the make a mistake. Jin's pressure is not very strong so don't worry about it, just watch out for throws.

Your Best Tools (For This Matchup):

Chains,chains,chains, run away alot.

Has A DP?:

AMAI! C uppercut and D uppercut are very strong but Jin will usually be spending meter so it is not likely you will see one unless he's feeling ballsy.

Things To Look Out For:

Fly around his Ice swords and punish for throwing them as they have 45 frames of recovery AND 11 frames of landing recovery so make him stop throwing those dam things.

Pay attention to your position relative to Jin in the mid range don't do anything stupid if you are within Jin's 2D range, bait it out and punish him for wiffing it.

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Jin's pressure is not very strong so don't worry about it, just watch out for throws.

I think it should noted that when he has 50 heat you also need to watch out for his overhead (6A)

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Like Dusty, I feel this matchup needs the most defense and baiting out of the rest. Don't get bold and wait for your punish. Be aware of 6B, like yours it has 3+ advantage, but it also has some low invul. It can punish a low approach.

J.D and J.6D can be your buddies in this one, just keep your patterns and fly-ins fresh.

His pressure is good. With some meter its gets even BETTER... :psyduck:

Beware of a random distortion when you throw those chains, sometimes a neutral jump can bait it.

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When baiting out Jins 2D what options do you use? Forward/Back Dash, air dash, all three? Most of the time I just block the 2D and try to react to the follow up because I don't know a reliable way to avoid it.

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If you IB the move before his 2D you can probably dash Jayakou it. Other than that, if gatling'd to, just IB and read the followup. Thrown at neutral, you want to go over it if you can, because he's committed to it for a massive amount of time on whiff.

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Jin's pressure isn't very strong? What O_O

Are we playing the same game

It's not, sure Jin has + on block moves, but barrier and back dash will get you out for almost free, Jin gets pushed out too easily.

When baiting out Jins 2D what options do you use? Forward/Back Dash, air dash, all three? Most of the time I just block the 2D and try to react to the follow up because I don't know a reliable way to avoid it.

5D~D(immediately) to move out of range instantly then throw a chain to punish his recovery, and 6D~B preemptively to end up in his face and punish the wiff. These are just some notable ones you can use pretty much any chain movement option that QUICKLY moves you to a different spot on the screen.

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Is there any way to punish Ice car? it seems to me like it's safe on block, (sometimes i'm able to get 5B connect but it dosen't counter... so they just didn,t block after it, it's a shame because in CS I could CH with 3C, god I want that back, the uge damage I could do if that was still true XD) tried the command grab, but get counter 9 times out of 10... I read somewhere it isn't safe on block but i tested on training and nothing will counter it except Jayoku...

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does it CH on every Ice car versions? (since I don't play Jin I can't difference the besides the A one) does it require IB or something? because most of my 5B either get blocked or hit regularly (dosen't CH thus meaning he could have blocked)

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Depends on ice car version. No one does A version to hit someone. So assuming they do B or C version, you can punish with 5A or 5B. The D version is easier to punish but good Jins only use it in combos. And no Jin uses ice cars as part of their pressure because that's fucking stupid. So it's really nothing to be concerned about.

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I see spammer occasionally and everytime they do the most i can do is about 1400 damage w/o meter and evantually the break my primers and I gets lot of damage since they can do the only combo they know freely, for the A version I only said it's the only one I can recognize (besides the D one who is almost never used and requires mter so not spammed) if my 5B dosen't counter does that mean I did it too late, or is there some frames at the end of Ice car, that Jin can't block, but he is no longer in CH state?

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Yes, your opponent is not in CH state for the entire recovery of the move, except for certain special cases. Ice car is punishable but you won't get a CH.

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It's not, sure Jin has + on block moves, but barrier and back dash will get you out for almost free, Jin gets pushed out too easily.

I don't think that's true, but I would really love to be proven wrong. Maybe I'm just biased because Bang's backdash really sucks against Jin in particular..

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I don't think that's true, but I would really love to be proven wrong. Maybe I'm just biased because Bang's backdash really sucks against Jin in particular..

i disagree, i feel like it is extra strong vs jin :3

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What can i do to punish full screen air-ice swords consistently? It always feels like he can get away with em for free

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Movement is the key. The recovery on ice swords is really bad so you could just do the simple dodge it and shoot a chain at him in his recovery. Or you could be baller and fly around the ice sword and end up in his face when he lands. My suggestion is go into training mode practice his movement options. Have the mindset "Hazama's position is here and I want to be there NOW" and figure out how to get to that part of the screen as fast as possible. I guess I could make a video or write a guide about MOVEMENT, not just zoning. I've got some cool stuff that I figured out which I'd be happy share, but it will have to wait until after evo.

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What can i do to punish full screen air-ice swords consistently? It always feels like he can get away with em for free

Doesn't 6D work?

EDIT: Dusty covered it very well.

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Doesn't 6D work?

Yes if they're are shooting the ice sword really badly. Remember your chain will stop if it hits the ice sword.

Note: It is waaaayyy late here in the Fabled PNW srry about all the errors and spelling mistakes.

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Movement is the key. The recovery on ice swords is really bad so you could just do the simple dodge it and shoot a chain at him in his recovery. Or you could be baller and fly around the ice sword and end up in his face when he lands. My suggestion is go into training mode practice his movement options. Have the mindset "Hazama's position is here and I want to be there NOW" and figure out how to get to that part of the screen as fast as possible. I guess I could make a video or write a guide about MOVEMENT, not just zoning. I've got some cool stuff that I figured out which I'd be happy share, but it will have to wait until after evo.

Dood thanks! I really appreciate what you've done recently. I honestly think you need to be the next Hazama mod.

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Yes, your opponent is not in CH state for the entire recovery of the move, except for certain special cases. Ice car is punishable but you won't get a CH.

ok thanks I though that he just didn't block after his Ice car it is still a shorter recovery than CS1 though...

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i disagree, i feel like it is extra strong vs jin :3

Then I look forward to you teaching me Bang v Jin, because I literally do not even understand what you guys are saying right now :sweatdrop:

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Fact: Bang's backdash >>>>>> Hazama's backdash. Other than that, I dunno what you guys are talking about. lol

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They're different. Bang's is very unique, it has a lot of Iframes, but it commits for a disturbingly long time, which makes it worse than many for dealing with jab pressure but better for escaping meaty overheads or highly active moves.

That's part of why I actually don't see how Bang's BD is so good for Jin, but there must be something I'm missing. I trust Huey's judgment on pretty much anything defense.

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What can i do to punish full screen air-ice swords consistently? It always feels like he can get away with em for free

Super Jump J6D-InstantD/ J4D-instantD to jB will get you over and around his ice swords and in his face pretty easily if he's doing the air versions with the exception of D version.

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