AchedSphinx Report post Posted February 10, 2012 So what if you do an air BnB and end it with Calamity Sword? When you land you do 236D on him and he techs and does that dodge thing. Can you punish with 236C in that situation? Because I think by the time he techs to do the dodge Lambda will have recovered enough to follow up with 236C. I really don't know how the dodge works so I'm curious about these things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenja0 Report post Posted February 11, 2012 Think of it like Jin's Gale. Completely invincible to everything, but vulnerable at the end. And as for punishing it, that dodge is 37 frames in total, including the 4 frames of recovery. 236C has 30 frames of startup while 236D has 62 frames of recovery. If Relius dodges 236D, he will be 37 frames into Lambda's recovery. Lambda will have 25 frames left to recovery from while Relius can dash in and CH her. 236C is not even an option... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted February 11, 2012 Okay I think I get it. I was thinking that when Lambda did 236D he'd block the first few hits and then dodge and since 236C has the perfect amount of frames to take advantage of it she could beat it out that way. But if he phases through it entirely it's basically like a whiffed attack. So for this match up do you just want to rushdown then? Seems like the easiest way to win if he lacks a real DP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toanenadiz Report post Posted February 11, 2012 And as for punishing it, that dodge is 37 frames in total, including the 4 frames of recovery. 236C has 30 frames of startup while 236D has 62 frames of recovery. If Relius dodges 236D, he will be 37 frames into Lambda's recovery. Lambda will have 25 frames left to recovery from while Relius can dash in and CH her. 236C is not even an option... That's not true. If Relius's uses the dodge against 236D, he can't punish it unless he has Ignis out. You will never see a Relius dodge 236D and then dash forward to punish it. For projectiles, I'm pretty sure what is put in the recovery column of the frame data is how many frames in total the move takes, not the actual recovery of the move. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenja0 Report post Posted February 13, 2012 That's not true. If Relius's uses the dodge against 236D, he can't punish it unless he has Ignis out. You will never see a Relius dodge 236D and then dash forward to punish it. For projectiles, I'm pretty sure what is put in the recovery column of the frame data is how many frames in total the move takes, not the actual recovery of the move. Regardless of how they do the frame data, 236C still has 30 frames of startup. I doubt it can be used to punish. But that frame data makes me curious nonetheless... everything I knew was a lie?!? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toanenadiz Report post Posted February 13, 2012 Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can't punish Relius when he twirls through 236D but I haven't actually tested it yet. I'm not one for actually using training mode... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AchedSphinx Report post Posted February 13, 2012 Well it would be fun to have some unusual gimmicks against this guy to punish him for doing it all the time. But if you can't punish it. Seems like it'll be as annoying as Carl's version. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kurushii Report post Posted February 13, 2012 All projectiles in frame data is TOTAL frames of the move as Toan stated. In a match start distance doing 236D against Relius he can't punish you if he Led Ley it without Ignis active. If she is active he can punish with a 6D barely, but the followup after that isn't anything because of the range. At best he'll be able to start his own pressure. Now if i'm reading this discussion right you were wondering if he Led Ley Lambda's 236D will a 236C punish him quick enough. The answer to that is no. He can beat the 236C with a easy 5B or a Throw after his Led Ley. If you are wondering how much of a punish he can get off of it here is some meterless numbers from testing this situation: Without Ignis: 2102 With Ignis: 2849-3612 Now if you guys are doing your 236D as a oki then he won't have Ignis anyway to assist in his punish. If you don't time your 236D well and with a good distance he can punish it with a wake-up Vol Tedo distortion (the one where Ignis grabs you, puts you into a energy ball, and explodes) clean for a easy 2364 damage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
someonewhodied Report post Posted March 26, 2012 I did a bit of testing, Relius has pretty awesome tools here. If you try to use drives to zone relius, he can 214B you, and your options are to: Guard (Letting relius get closer) or 236(A/B/C) to try to get him. His 214A ruins most of your tools. Since Lambda doesn't have a meterless DP, he can keep doing unblockables. In short, you want to use your counterassaults and bursts. But be smart about it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toanenadiz Report post Posted March 26, 2012 You can dash 5DD Relius's 214B on reaction so it isn't that bad unless he is yomi punishing your whiffed drive moves. 214A is tough to deal with though. I've found dash 2B can be used to hit Ignis out of it and she seems to go back to Relius instead of staying there to do more stuff, which is good (although the Relius player I used this against may not have had Ignis try to do anything else) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kenja0 Report post Posted March 31, 2012 Unblockables shouldn't be that much of a problem in this match. Unless he's doing a reset on a grounded Lambda, all we really need to do is pay attention to our tech timing. Too early and we'll fall into his hands, too late and he'll continue/start a combo. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legacy Edge Report post Posted December 19, 2012 Stupid me fails to understand, why is this matchup in our favour? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
someonewhodied Report post Posted December 20, 2012 Every time relius tries to bring the doll out, we have enough time to nail him with a 3C or drive attack before he can actually attack, and hitting him makes the doll disappear. Rinse and Repeat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legacy Edge Report post Posted December 20, 2012 Ah i see, seems i was playing this way to defensive. His wafu gets on top of you=bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
