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pktazn

[CP1.1] Tsubaki Yayoi General - Gameplay Discussion

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How is this useful exactly? It seems like there's a pretty substantial amount of time between when you cross them up and when they actually have to block the right direction (thanks to superflash and slow startup).

I was hoping this was some way you could cross them up WHILE the swords were hitting so they'd have to switch block directions, but I don't know if that would even work because they might just be locked in blcokstun at that point...?

You are forcing your opponent to block and you can mix him up freely, and he can't escape this.

That's huge.

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Wow, Tsubaki got put through the ringer. I think I like her changes more than not so far, but... my 22C. ;_;

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So I got a chance to mess around with CP yesterday evening, and while it's going to take some adjusting to, it doesn't actually seem as different as I was afraid it was going to. Sure, I'm going to have to practice pretty much all my combos again (seriously, WTF, how am I dropping 5BB > 5CC > 6BB on a croucher?) but the pace of the game didn't feel unpleasantly different like I was afraid it was going to.

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I swear practically every move seems to have foot attribute and I'm having a real hard time using 214D invincibility to my favor.

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I swear practically every move seems to have foot attribute and I'm having a real hard time using 214D invincibility to my favor.

Really? I thought they had cleaned up a lot of the extraneous attributes - Inferno Divider doesn't have foot (Or head!) anymore! Though it seems like all projectiles now have ALL properties, so only moves that specifically beat projectiles work against them now. (WTB CS1 22B back.)

OTOH, WTF is up with Agito? It's an AIR MOVE with FOOT properties? Presumably because it's a 'projectile', and I cannot make the air quotes around that emphatic enough. Someone F-d up on that, as far as I am concerned, because there is NO reason that move should be what it is.

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There aren't overlapping attributes except for projectiles now really.

Basically the end result is that 214x doesn't work on air moves anymore, but it works on more grounded moves, and it doesn't work on any projectiles. some chars just use a lot of low moves. good luck using 214b against nu ever, she pretty much never sticks out anything it will work against in this matchup, and there are enough other characters that mostly use lows against us too because if you low profile 5b the only thing tsubaki can do is try to 5a you first.

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Despite what I have said in the strategy guide about air and ground enders, I have come to find that ending combos with j.236A > j.214A in the corner gives you some mixup opportunities as they are falling. You could for a command grab like I did in my combo movie here.

You can opt for other things such as a low, but if you're gonna opt for something like CT or 6A you need to make sure your opponent is committed to block because it will lose to mashing. The ender is fun to use, you guys should try it.

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there's so much time there. people I play do not let that pass. if you're going to try that I think you need to do it earlier and lower in the air really.

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Despite what I have said in the strategy guide about air and ground enders, I have come to find that ending combos with j.236A > j.214A in the corner gives you some mixup opportunities as they are falling. You could for a command grab like I did in my combo movie here.

You can opt for other things such as a low, but if you're gonna opt for something like CT or 6A you need to make sure your opponent is committed to block because it will lose to mashing. The ender is fun to use, you guys should try it.

Most max damage combos end with that ender so I've been using it more frequently than than the ground ender.

Maybe like 60-40. However, I've noticed people not emergency teching as they land sometimes in the corner and then using forward roll to get out but if they start trying that too often, you can pick them up with 2B > 2CC for a full combo of just back dash real quick if they seem like they're not teching immediately to still keep them in the corner.

Also, on a sidenote, while it sucks you still have to use 5A in extremely close range situations(damage/combo potential off this is extremely limited) where you don't have the distinct frame advantage. Everyone practices 5B/5C starters but I recommend just learning to end combos early when starting with 5A enders that puts you at an advantage and then go from there. Don't be in another character's 5A/2A range without advantage and think 5B/5C is getting you anything other than being CH.

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there's so much time there. people I play do not let that pass. if you're going to try that I think you need to do it earlier and lower in the air really.

Yeah so basically use 5C > 2CC > j.CC > j.236A > j.214A. It's down to the opponent to be committed to blocking, or if they're new to it. You're gonna have to get real creative when they start learning about the setup though.

Most max damage combos end with that ender so I've been using it more frequently than than the ground ender.

Maybe like 60-40. However, I've noticed people not emergency teching as they land sometimes in the corner and then using forward roll to get out but if they start trying that too often, you can pick them up with 2B > 2CC for a full combo of just back dash real quick if they seem like they're not teching immediately to still keep them in the corner.

Also, on a sidenote, while it sucks you still have to use 5A in extremely close range situations(damage/combo potential off this is extremely limited) where you don't have the distinct frame advantage. Everyone practices 5B/5C starters but I recommend just learning to end combos early when starting with 5A enders that puts you at an advantage and then go from there. Don't be in another character's 5A/2A range without advantage and think 5B/5C is getting you anything other than being CH.

Yeah I don't really use the air ender in the corner but it's nice to catch people that try to roll out. Then again I probably wouldn't use it unless I have to against characters like Valkenhayn, because if they get out I have to start all over again and I don't really want to make that mistake. Looking back on my gameplay I do let a ton of people get away with roll outs though and that needs to change.

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Yeah I don't really use the air ender in the corner but it's nice to catch people that try to roll out. Then again I probably wouldn't use it unless I have to against characters like Valkenhayn, because if they get out I have to start all over again and I don't really want to make that mistake. Looking back on my gameplay I do let a ton of people get away with roll outs though and that needs to change.

2B > 2CC works for punishing roll outs but the best use of ground ender in the corner is that it leaves you at the perfect position so if they try to roll out, they'll just be right in front of you with their pants down.

Got any other roll punishes outside of 2B/3C that might have some practical use?

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2B > 2CC works for punishing roll outs but the best use of ground ender in the corner is that it leaves you at the perfect position so if they try to roll out, they'll just be right in front of you with their pants down.

Got any other roll punishes outside of 2B/3C that might have some practical use?

5A. I usually mash 5A on someone's wakeup to stop them from doing quick getups or roll outs. However, the hitconfirm is extremely demanding and it doesn't always work from rollouts.

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5A? It doesn't have the best active frames for a meaty if that's what you're looking for, no? Mashing it makes it harder to confirm off of it too, I think.

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backdash>command grab

Yup. Disencourage this with 5CC, though.

They get hit with that and you have a charge, they're in for like 3-4k damage, easy.

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Yup. Disencourage this with 5CC, though.

They get hit with that and you have a charge, they're in for like 3-4k damage, easy.

say what, translate

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They try to back dash on wake up looking for command grab in the corner -> nail them with 5©C and profit.

so what I was saying was after a J214A, you backdash and if they roll you punish with a command grab. you can only block for a good period after a roll so you can 100% punish it with a command grab.

command grab vs 5c mixup on normal wakeup is good though.

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Hum? Aren't you in a state where you can't block at all during and slightly after roll?

there's a period after a roll where you can block and do nothing else. it can be tight to pick someone up during a roll and it's harder to punish at the end of a roll with a normal than with a command grab, again, timing. if you backdash and they roll you won't be able to punish with a normal I believe, but you can punish with a command grab. if they don't roll you can 5b.

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Hum? Aren't you in a state where you can't block at all during and slightly after roll?

There's a period of time where the only thing you CAN do is block.

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there's a period after a roll where you can block and do nothing else. it can be tight to pick someone up during a roll and it's harder to punish at the end of a roll with a normal than with a command grab, again, timing. if you backdash and they roll you won't be able to punish with a normal I believe, but you can punish with a command grab. if they don't roll you can 5b.

There's a period of time where the only thing you CAN do is block.

So if you can't punish during the roll, you punish it with a command grab since they're in forced block status.

Neat.

So there's no period of time where they are unable to block after the rolling animation has ended but only during?

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So if you can't punish during the roll, you punish it with a command grab since they're in forced block status.

Neat.

So there's no period of time where they are unable to block after the rolling animation has ended but only during?

correct

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So if you can't punish during the roll, you punish it with a command grab since they're in forced block status.

Neat.

So there's no period of time where they are unable to block after the rolling animation has ended but only during?

For reference, see the "Ground Rolling" section HERE.

Rolls are wacky. Forward roll starts off completely invulnerable, for like, 3 frames, then becomes throw invulnerable (but hittable with strikes) for 14 frames, then you get the 'you can only block' time for 12 or 13 frames after that. It's complicated. x.x

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That's hilarious, that means that all this time I've caught hundreds of opponents on what I thought was "roll recovery", they were just mashing something during what was their block-only state.

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