Zappa Vs. Sol

[Oiboi]

I suppose I'll start this subforum off. I'll throw in my 2 cents on as many characters as I can, and any suggestions are, of course, welcome. For organization and the like, I'll separate each match by character. Obviously, this thread will be about Sol. I'll also organize by summon strategies, and then make an overall strategy. Naked/Unsummon: -Very important you don't naked summon. Always, ALWAYS summon from combos or as a countermeasure. Sol can very easily punish, and most good Sol's are good are grabbing you out of the summon, So be sure not to make silly mistakes. Don't go for the summon in pressure strings either. -Get a summon as soon as possible against Sol. Some characters you can stand a chance against without one, but it's even riskier against Sol. -Watch your defense and get a grab when you can. Grab = Free summon. No need to get too fancy without summons. Ghosts: -Keep the pressure going. FRCing Ghost tosses from pressure strings keeps you safe from counterattacks, as well as allowing you to continue your pressure string if you choose to. Watch out for DP's and gunflames; Volcanic Viper can be punished with a ghost toss, but a gunflame will just stop the ghost. -Try to get a haunting on them and keep your distance. Don't worry about damage with the ghosts; Just keep your pressure and poke them when you can, the Ghost's pokes are pretty good against Sol if you use them right. -Once Sol makes a mistake, take your opportunity. Get some ghost tosses on him, but don't waste all of them; In some matchups you can throw out all the ghosts without too much concern, but Sol can pressure pretty fast, and the ghosts don't put on a lot of untechable time. Keep at least one for a f.S poke at all times. -Get Orbs. That's the only real use for Ghosts other than pissing Sol off in this match. Sword: -Sol will hate the sword. Poke intelligently, and maximize damage off your pokes. -Don't do 236S too often. Sol can hit through it without much difficulty, and it's not safe in pressure strings. It does work when he's coming down from VV, though, and if you have tension, theres not much he can do. -Know your FRC's. Sol can't do anything if you can DP and Swordswipe every poke attempt, even on whiff. Scare him into the corner and mix him up. -6HS is a good move if he's jumping in. c.S or f.S works if he's on the ground, 2S in some cases. 5HS also works well if your not sure what he's going to do. -j.HS isn't a good option on Sol. This is one of those NO-NO's in this matchup; He can simply DP Zappa if you jump in. It's good for Oki crossup, especially if you FRC to keep yourself from wakeup DP. Once the VV whiffs, you can punish. -"jH is still good zoning move against Sol for defense since it's like a wall when you jump back with it, usually it will clash if he does VV in a situation like that, otherwise he'll probably get hit. crossup jH after knockdown does not need frc to be safe from VV. just do the dash jump crossup (which sadly does no damage but whatever) and you'll be totally safe" --Tiamat Dog: -Nothing too fancy here. 5D to poke him if he tries to pressure you, if he throws out a DP punish with 8D. BR or BB can be punished hard if you let the dog get eaten and instantly resummon. -Poke him open and go for standard dog combos. Sol has to get close to hurt you or the dog, so keep the dog close. Bait him by staying far away and spamming 2D, 2HS; One will hit, almost no matter what he does. Watch out for DP, VV is multihit and will hit you and the dog if your not careful. Raou: -Pressure, Pressure, Pressure. Force an opening and KILL. -Watch out for Grand Viper counter when you throw out 6HS. Goes right under it. Same with Darkness Anthem, Toss K DA's until you get a confirm hit. If your fast enough, you can catch them if he gets cocky. -Edguy beats all. There is nothing Sol can't do against it if you use it smartly. Example, if he VV's, Edguy. DON'T Edguy in pressure strings unless you can RC it to play mindgames/get chip damage. Even then, Darkness anthem is much safer. -2D can beat Edguy, or sometimes whiff through, but it doesn't leave Zappa in a good spot. Likewise, watch out for Grand Viper here too. Overall: Just play smart. Keep your defense up and counter as efficiently as you can. Don't fall for Wild Tosses, backdash if he gets too close, and keep in mind that 6P and 5k go through most of his pokes. Be careful if he starts spamming gunflame, he's probably planning to Wild Toss or try a mixup. Overall, this is a tough fight, but it's not impossible if your careful. As stated, feel free to add any thoughts you may have. I'll try to do more matchups as I can.

[Tiamat]

Sword:

-j.HS isn't a good option on Sol. This is one of those NO-NO's in this matchup; He can simply DP Zappa if you jump in. It's good for Oki crossup, especially if you FRC to keep yourself from wakeup DP. Once the VV whiffs, you can punish.

Raou:

-Edguy beats all. There is nothing Sol can't do against it if you use it smartly. Example, if he VV's, Edguy. DON'T Edguy in pressure strings unless you can RC it to play mindgames/get chip damage. Even then, Darkness anthem is much safer.

jH is still good zoning move against Sol for defense since it's like a wall when you jump back with it, usually it will clash if he does VV in a situation like that, otherwise he'll probably get hit. crossup jH after knockdown does not need frc to be safe from VV. just do the dash jump crossup (which sadly does no damage but whatever) and you'll be totally safe

Edguy loses to Sol's 2D all day long, be wary of that

It's been a while since I played the matchup but I'm pretty sure about those 2 things.

[Oiboi]

jH is still good zoning move against Sol for defense since it's like a wall when you jump back with it, usually it will clash if he does VV in a situation like that, otherwise he'll probably get hit. crossup jH after knockdown does not need frc to be safe from VV. just do the dash jump crossup (which sadly does no damage but whatever) and you'll be totally safe

Edguy loses to Sol's 2D all day long, be wary of that

It's been a while since I played the matchup but I'm pretty sure about those 2 things.

Yeah, J.HS is an amazing move lol. Still risky, but I'll add that to the first post.

If you time it right, 2D whiffs through edguy, but it doesn't leave you in a good spot. Also, if he's going for a 2D you shouldn't be going for Edguy anyways.

Thanks for the more info.

[Phrekwenci]

If you time it right, 2D whiffs through edguy, but it doesn't leave you in a good spot. Also, if he's going for a 2D you shouldn't be going for Edguy anyways.

Smart Sol players will always 2D when they think a Edguy is coming. I suggest adding a 2S first (to get the low hit) and then the Edguy.

[Oiboi]

Smart Sol players will always 2D when they think a Edguy is coming. I suggest adding a 2S first (to get the low hit) and then the Edguy.

That's kind of what I meant, I rarely use edguy as a counterattack, especially against sol. If anything, I'm using it in combos or a punishing tool. Still, 2S into edguy is hilarious because it can enfuriate your opponent :3

[Tiamat]

why not just do 2S 5H 236S-K combo? and if 2S is blocked you can try for 2H/5D mixup

[Phrekwenci]

why not just do 2S 5H 236S-K combo? and if 2S is blocked you can try for 2H/5D mixup

Really, Raoh's game (IMO) should be all about the 2S. All you should do for those 16 seconds is have your left hand ready to hit down and the right hand ready to hit slash. What you do from there will win the match. It's fast, it's got good range and it's low.

[Oiboi]

Don't mean to be rude or anything, but these threads are for matchups... Strategies should go into the respective threads. Sorry for me being anal retentive lol:v:

[aaronyu2]

:V yesterday I played a sol and~ sol combos take off like, half of zappa's health :X also, sol's got some insane corner pressure~ any tips on what to do against sol in the corner? it really feels like zappa is too slow for the corner~ also he had an interesting way of baiting the dog. he would spam 2P with sol, and when I tried to do the dog overhead, he'll suddenly do a 5p and kill the dog :V then he cancels into something else making it quite safe for him :X

[Phrekwenci]

:V yesterday I played Veteru's sol and~ sol combos take off like, half of zappa's health :X also, sol's got some insane corner pressure~ any tips on what to do against sol in the corner?

Uh, he does? I don't think I've ever had a problem with Sol in the corner. All I think he can really do is FRC the gun flame a few times with a rush down. FD that guy back and get out.

also veteru had an interesting way of baiting the dog. he would spam 2P with sol, and when I tried to do the dog overhead, he'll suddenly do a 5p and kill the dog :V then he cancels into something else making it quite safe for him :X

So that's when you bait him. Either run in and FD to stop or jump overhead and bait an uppercut. When he does the move, hit D and start whippin'.

[aaronyu2]

hm~~ but the this sol didn't constantly use constant frc rush down :X and, sol can combo into clean hit grand viper from so many hits, which resulted in sol's forcebreak, followed by at least 3 sidewinder loops T_T also, if I was to run in and FD after the dog, All I really manage to do is get my dog killed and sol's got the advantage. This sol player also uses VV pretty smart :X

[Zoogstin]

Anti-2P strats: -4D D (wins almost everytime due to angle) -let the dog die and 236P the sol -spit on him. f.5S will either hit him or clash leaving him open to get hit by a 5D. If sol has you pressured FD him away. The hard part is looking out for throws. But seriously that is just about all the mixups he has besides a random overhead like dust. Don't freak out, because Sol has you cornered. His pressure in all actuality sucks. He needs tension to do gunflame pressure. If he does bandit revolver you can summon or sword uppercut him out of it. You just have to look out for wild throws.

[aaronyu2]

the wild throws are what's getting me really badly because this sol really knows his distancing :x 4D D against him spamming 2P and suddenly he goes 5P and the dog dies :/ and then he gets to cancel the attack into something else~~ I guess a dash summon right after it may work once in a while. it was really difficult for me to spit on him too~~ I can't remember a lot about it since I only played like 4 matches against him~~ but yeah.. before I went on hiatus for two months I never had this much trouble against him. It really feels like the sol has stepped up his anti zappa play :x

[Phrekwenci]

also, if I was to run in and FD after the dog, All I really manage to do is get my dog killed and sol's got the advantage. This sol player also uses VV pretty smart :X

No.

You don't run in after the dog if all he does is 2P.

66 FD (stop at the dog's position)

From here depending on what he's doing you'll want to spit (if he continues 2P), or attack with the dog and then 66 combo.

The idea is to get him to stop doing the 2P and do something else with more frames and THEN use the dog. If the dog dies who cares, just make sure you follow-up.

[Oiboi]

Got some more practice with a pretty damned good Sol lately (2piece), so I'll add a bit more. He has some deceivingly good pressure strings, but it's not completely unbeatable if you watch. He would often do a 6HS into gunflame after generic gatlings; there's a very tiny time frame in which you can summon when he goes for 6HS (the first hit will whiff, the second hit never connects). IB if your unsure of your execution times. FB's are good too, but don't get to defensive or he'll go for a command grab. Most Sol's will do gunflame FRC command grab; if you anticipate this, jump and FD; the gunflame will likely be blocked and you'll drop safely to the ground, ruining the grab attempt. Sol really only has Volcanic Viper to deal with pressure (you can even 6P tyrant rave), but don't get too predictable or he'll anticipate what your going to do. Go for grabs and punish whiffed moves (running under attacks is a good way to avoid hits like BB). Practice airgrabbing Sol whiffed/gaurded VV until you can do it reliably enough to use it as an option (This is really good for free summons). Zappa doesn't have too many combo openers unless he gets a counter hit off, particularly on Sol, but anything helps. Also, don't make the mistake of getting too close for f.S Wakeup pressure... VV's hitbox is huge.

[4Corners]

How do I punish gunflame spam? Just IAD over and air-to-ground combo, or what?

[JinSaotome]

if non FRCed, just IAD over it and punch him in the face. If you have Raoh out and he messes up the FRC its GGPO Sol. CH j.H into death. Not much you can do with Dog though, maybe 8D-6D? if its FRCed, better to block and punish when he runs in

[4Corners]

Any really good jump in combos to make him wish he never did a non-FRCed one again?

[JinSaotome]

uh... Naked: j.P x N land 2P 2K 2D summon Dog: j.P x N land 5P 6P 5S 6D? Iunno, I suck with dog. :p Sword: j.H land 5S 2D 236S FRC 2S 2HS(1) JC j.K j.S JC j.S j.D 236H Ghost: you could just throw a K Ghost, or you can do a standard combo. Iunno, i suck with Ghost combos. :p Raoh: j.H 66 dashjump j.H land follow into the corner and EDOGAI him to death. Iunno, I very scarcely use Zappa, so I'm not really good with any combos involving anything but sword, Raoh and naked :p

[JinSaotome]

On that note, I think with Sol at the corner you could do some more stuff in the corner. ex. Naked: IAD j.D 5S 236P (RC into 5P 236P a few more times for Raoh, if you have tension!) Sword: IAD j.D 2S 2HS j.K j.S j.S j.H 236H Raoh: j.H EDOGAI x N Ghost: j.D K-ghost. j.D land 5p j.P x N jc j.P x N D-Ghost Dog: I don't know, I fail at Dog.

[Phrekwenci]

Generally speaking, I'll send the dog into the flame and have him take the hit. Combo into summon.

[4Corners]

Thanks. I'll mess around with these. Dog combos are situational anyway. <3

EDIT:

Generally speaking, I'll send the dog into the flame and have him take the hit. Combo into summon.

You're heartless.

[Phrekwenci]

No, just dogless.

[Zeero]

Naked zappa can't do j.P x N, so you'll hafta do iad jp js or jp jk js (forgot which one works better) land and so on sword, try iad jpsd 669(dash jump) sks dj s d/hs spin (making this up in my mind) ghost, iad psd 669 ppp dj ppd, if iad psd doesn't work, do ppd dog, depends on where your dog is, too situational to list, but generally iad ppps 2k 6p (something) i guess... Phrek's idea is usually what i end up doing tho. raoh: iad s hs death

[Phrekwenci]

With the ghosts against the gunflame I'll just tigerknee a straight ghost over the gunflame, so 2369S. If you want to be really slick, you can FRC it and IAD in behind it with a jP, jD etc. Careful IADing and following up with the jS, the ghosts may trail. Sword, I just backdash. Naked? Pfft, I'm never naked! I'm just that good! (ok no not really)