Zappa Vs. Slayer

[Oiboi]

After fighting many of Slayers (As I'm sure nearly anyone has; He's quite popular now) I've got some strategies, but not all is failproof, so with this matchup particularly tips and comments are appreciated.

Naked/Unsummon:

-It is imperative that you do not get hit. Slayer can punish very easily and very fast, and absurdly hard. Do not make mistakes.

-Do not summon if he tries a dandy step move. Whether it's a feint or not, you won't win.

-5K and 6P are your friends, especiall because Slayer's 2H is deadly stuff. You can catch him out of his dash with a summon, though, even if he attempts to dash through it.

-I said it before, but I have to say it again: Do NOT make mistakes. Many Slayer's can kill from a single poke, regardless of how much health you have. Very rarely do I ever win a match once I get under 50% health.

-Get pressure and keep it. Don't give him a chance to turn the tables.

Ghosts:

-Slayer will get very annoyed at these. These are the only summon that Zappa has that can outzone Slayer's ridiculous pokes.

-Stay away and throw ghosts, but don't throw them all at once. Again, keep a ghost on at all times if you can, and make him scared to get close. Watch out for his dash and punish him as soon as he tries to avoid a toss with it.

-You won't deal a lot of damage, but you'll deal enough. Take it slow and beat his gaurd down until he either dies or you get another some.

Sword:

-Poke away. Most of the Sword's moves are fast enough to beat many of Slayer's Normals, but watch out for feints (sometimes a quick 236S will beat a dandy step, but not always. Even a swordswipe is risky).

-Once you get a hit in (most likely from a DP or swordswipe), Combo for all it's worth.

-Slayer has scary anti-airs. Stay on the ground if you can, but if you HAVE to get into the air, use J.HS as needed. It won't keep you entirely safe, but it'll help.

Dog:

-Risky business, but great damage. Dog can eat most of Slayer's moves for you to punish (However, some will simply hit the dog then you).

-Keep your guard on but watch out for grabs. Hit him out of pressure and really hurt him.

-This is when you put on the damage. Smack him up and take away his health. Get some orbs while your at it.

Raou:

-Even with this guy, this match is hard stuff. Slayer is like a smaller Raou, both in speed and damage output, so this is the only time your fighting on even ground.

-Pressure and wait for him to try to hit you. Careful that he doesn't actually hit you though... Edguy will help with most of his moves, but it's still risky. Darkness anthem will hit him too if he tries to use a move to come in on you. If he Dashes through DA, That's when you can punish for all it's worth. Make sure theres a giant 6HS Raou fist as soon as he comes out of the dash.

-Don't get stupid. Slayer's priority is terrifying stuff, so don't go running in with Edguy expecting to win the match.

Overall: This match is pretty obviously in Slayer's favor, but I've won before, and I know it can be done. You just really have to be careful; Slayer's pressure strings are hard to counter and they seem to go on forever. Watch out for 6K feints on wakeup, and careful of how decieving his 2D is, the range goes forever. Zappa doesn't have many pokes that work well here, but perseverance and good countering will win the match. And again, Don't make mistakes. Really, if you plan to win this matchup, you need a lot of experience and a lot of practice to become flawless enough to win.

Things 5K works against:

2HS

2D (Must be anticipated, can't do it on reaction because 2D's startup is too ridiculous)

2K

Things 6P works against: (Pretty much everything else but I'll detail a few good moves it works on)

5HS

6HS

5K

Any dandy step (Chase him and 6P, none of the followups except K will touch you and you wanna hit him before he comes out anyways)

Mappa's

Dead On Time (Must be preemptive, but works so well; close range, you have to hit the 'effect' around his feet)

Things to look out for:

6K

2S

Pilebunker (beats summon)

Throws (Reload people know how stupid slayer's throws are against zappa)

Any air moves (Only the sword and dog will be safe against these)

Any of his other supers besides DoT

BBU (despite appearances, beats 6P, summon, etc...)

Most importantly of all: If Slayer has 50% tension, DO NOT perform a ghost throw or Darkness Anthem with Raoh. You will eat a Dead on Time easily. If he gets you pressured. FD like crazy to get him off then jump aways.

Do not perform sword rush if he has 25% tension or more UNLESS you have the tension to cancel the immediate followup. You're asking to get hit by a Big Bang Upper or Dead on Time.

This matchup is hard because Zappa has a lot of unsafe stuff against a character (being Slayer) who has an incredibly amount of great pokes. I have a hard time with this matchup because I will make one mistake and lose despite how safe I was during the rest the match.

With the sword 5HS stuffs most of Slayer's ground moves, but you have to hope that he doesn't instead decide to jump and come down on you with a jHS. Have a 2HS or 623HS ready for Slayer because many Slayer players love to use this move.

The dog is you best bet in this match up easily. Most of the moves that makes slayer great only hit once. This is perfect for have the dog take a hit and you getting inside.

And like Oibi mentioned, 6P and 5K are your best pokes against this guy.

As usual, any tips and comments are welcome.

[Zoogstin]

Most importantly of all: If Slayer has 50% tension, DO NOT perform a ghost throw or Darkness Anthem with Raoh. You will eat a Dead on Time easily. If he gets you pressured. FD like crazy to get him off then jump aways. Do not perform sword rush if he has 25% tension or more UNLESS you have the tension to cancel the immediate followup. You're asking to get hit by a Big Bang Upper or Dead on Time. This matchup is hard because Zappa has a lot of unsafe stuff against a character (being Slayer) who has an incredibly amount of great pokes. I have a hard time with this matchup because I will make one mistake and lose despite how safe I was during the rest the match. With the sword 5HS stuffs most of Slayer's ground moves, but you have to hope that he doesn't instead decide to jump and come down on you with a jHS. Have a 2HS or 623HS ready for Slayer because many Slayer players love to use this move. The dog is you best bet in this match up easily. Most of the moves that makes slayer great only hit once. This is perfect for have the dog take a hit and you getting inside. And like Oibi mentioned, 6P and 5K are your best pokes against this guy.

[Oiboi]

Yep, pretty much my exact same experience. I remember matches where I made one mistake and got comboed for a while and barely lived because the slayer made a mistake. Thanks for the info, I'll add it to the first post (I wanna keep these tidy for people to read without too much searching)

[Tiamat]

Because we were talking about 2S in the Sol thread, it might be a good idea to mention that you shouldn't spam it on slayer like against Sol. you can probably use f.S a lot more safely for mostly the same results

[Phrekwenci]

Because we were talking about 2S in the Sol thread, it might be a good idea to mention that you shouldn't spam it on slayer like against Sol. you can probably use f.S a lot more safely for mostly the same results

Actually I'd probably want something with some delay like 2HS that he'll want to dash (and use invul frames) and get hit anyway.

[EasyModeNub]

Coming from slayer's point of view, this match up is obviously in my favor. Learn to space the 6P and you'll fall in love with it though. A well spaced 6P is almost uncontestable. It's definitely a harder fight for Zappa than it is for Slayer, but if you keep your spacing tight and use every summon to the best of it's abilities... you can hopefully pull through. Don't get predictable at all though, if you eat one CH combo.. it's your ass. If you see Slayer 6HS, 6P his out and combo/summon. Sadly however, I've actually never won this match up... mainly because the only Zappa I ever play against is Fubar Duck. lol I remember the good old days, back in XX when I was the only Slayer I knew. lol

[Tiamat]

why is 6P so good on slayer?

[kanom]

personally against slayer i think 5k is good

[Phrekwenci]

Ha yea, playing fubarduck back then would definitely turn the tables a bit.

[Zoogstin]

5k and 6P go hand in hand. 5K beats out Slayers 2K and 2HS, 6P goes against much of his other pokes. Tiamat: 6P has upperbody invinciblity (Zappa's hitbox during this move is one of smallest in the game next not having a hit box at all). Also it hits low where slayer is usually vulnerable (with an exception of his 2HS but that's what 5k is for). 6P is a good anti BBU move because BBU has upperbody invincibility as well but since your 6P hits low, you'll knock him right out of it. =) 6P will also beat out Mappa's and Slayer's Force break punch thing after his dandy step.

[MacArthur Blunts]

Don't forget about SL's god poke 2S. It's huge, it's active for a long time and it beats lots of stuff and on CH it gives me a free 2H BBU or 2D RC. 2S can also cancel (with proper timing) into: Mappa Dandy 2H 6H 6K 2D DOT It's like they gave him a move that's huge, awesome and has EVERY option SL wants on block.

[Zoogstin]

Yeah I would tell anybody fighting slayer to not jump in on him. One of the reasons Slayer's 2S is so beast is because it has upperbody invincibility so I was told.

[MacArthur Blunts]

Yeah, it's got good upper body and it's also his most damaging move to hit as an AA. It leads into j.K and on CH leads into 6H->5H aircombo for retarded dmg. I don't think Zappa has any moves reliable enough to beat 2S in the air. 2S also has amazing ground properties. Watch it hit from a little less than SL 5K range. Also meaty 2S will combo into 2H on normal hit and tag backdashes (though I do not know about tagging Zappa backdash since it's so damn good). Very good move.

[Oiboi]

Yeah, it's got good upper body and it's also his most damaging move to hit as an AA. It leads into j.K and on CH leads into 6H->5H aircombo for retarded dmg. I don't think Zappa has any moves reliable enough to beat 2S in the air. 2S also has amazing ground properties. Watch it hit from a little less than SL 5K range.

Also meaty 2S will combo into 2H on normal hit and tag backdashes (though I do not know about tagging Zappa backdash since it's so damn good). Very good move.

I know that in most cases, Zappa's Backdash can mess up Slayer's pressure, particularly on wakeup.

Really, it's all about waiting for Slayer to make a mistake...

Edit: Oh god, what happened to my avatar. BRB, KILLING AOL FOR BEING A VIRUS :<

[Oiboi]

Ok so here, I'll start with slayer for this stuff: Things 5K works against: 2HS 2D (Must be anticipated, can't do it on reaction because 2D's startup is too ridiculous) 2K Things 6P works against: (Pretty much everything else but I'll detail a few good moves it works on) 5HS 6HS 5K Any dandy step (Chase him and 6P, none of the followups except K will touch you and you wanna hit him before he comes out anyways) Mappa's Dead On Time (Must be preemptive, but works so well; close range, you have to hit the 'effect' around his feet) Things to look out for: 6K 2S Pilebunker (beats summon) Throws (Reload people know how stupid slayer's throws are against zappa) Any air moves (Only the sword and dog will be safe against these) Any of his other supers besides DoT BBU (despite appearances, beats 6P, summon, etc...)

[Zoogstin]

Actually both 6P and summon beat BBU you just have to do them as late as possible. Also something to add (which I think is Slayer's deadliest move) that 6P beats is Slayer's j.HS. You have to do 6P as late as possible. Aside from Slayer's aerial super if 6P can beat jHS, then 6P can beat any of his aerial moves. Other than that, you're good.

[Oiboi]

Really? That's good to know. I think I've beat BBU with 6P before but I think I was deep inside when it happened, which hit his feet (where the hitbox is) instead of whiffing on the front. And I'd imagine 6P would beat j.HS, just wasn't sure.

[Dangief]

Why not just block BBU?

[HellSap]

2k beats BBU as well, and basically dangief - if you can get a deep CH you can do more off of it...

[Oiboi]

Well, I'm simply listing things that 6P/2K CAN beat and primary moves you need to look out for from the enemy. That's why I originally put BBU in that section, since it's such a dangerous move that can really mess you up if your not careful.

[4Corners]

Odd, I just do 6p on reaction to BBU, and it always scores a nice little CH. And by little, I mean it nets me that 6p, 2hs jc jk, js, jc js, jD for enough damage to make me smile. Unless people have something that does EVEN MORE DAMAGE OMG?!?! Or Phrek's sword CH combo. With dog I just 6p and set up the dog, and ghosts I just 6p, haunt, and wish I could do more damage. ;_;

[Phrekwenci]

Or Phrek's sword CH combo.

I have my own sword CH combo? ...which one is this?

[JackG]

wait, you can do a move on reaction to BBU, a 10 frame startup?

[Zoogstin]

Maybe I just suck but if you can 6P BBU on reaction then that Slayer player is doing it waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.

[Oiboi]

Well, People reaction to summon if you throw it out when they aren't attacking. The trick is that doing it when they are attacking, there's nothing they can do against it. I suppose BBU can be treated similarly except it's invuls aren't as good as summon. Still, I would think close range BBU can be easily reacted to with 6P since it has upper invul from then on, and reaches above knee invul shortly thereafter, allowing zappa to get under it. That's just my take, anyways.