Zappa Vs. Potemkin

[Oiboi]

Potemkin is a very tough matchup for nearly any character, but since Zappa doesn't have many throw invincible moves and Potemkin has Potemkin Buster, He's forced into a tight spot. Naked/Unsummon: -This is one of the only matchups where it's advisable to free summon (without hitting/from a combo). This is because getting close to Potemkin is a dangerous endeavor, and even more difficult is landing a combo and summon. -That being said, if you can manage it, hit him with a summon. f.S Will open him up on many occasions, and some of his long reaching moves can be countered with a summon. -Without a summon, don't even think about standing a chance against Pot. If he gets in your face, start poking, but only to open up to get a summon. Ghosts: -This should be obvious: Zone him. Avoid him like the plague. Careful he doesn't try to F.D.B. your ghost tosses. -It's possible to get in close somewhat safely with the ghosts, but it's not advised. Don't jump in, even if you throw a ghost; He'll just Heat Knuckle grab you out of the air (The range is ridiculous, jumping in the air is only safe if your on the other side of the screen completely; I've seen crazy stuff). -These are the most reliable summon, but not necessarily the best. The damage is useless against Pot, but you can stay pretty safe for a while. Sword: -Risky, but great rewards. Most pokes are beyond his grab range, but he still has Hammerfall and Judge Gauntlet to combat the sword. -LOVE THE DP. It's Zappa's one useable grab invincibility move (I believe he has another? But it's not as useful) and it can put Pot in the air, allowing for a combo. -Pot is ridiculously easy to combo because of his size and weight, so pummel him non stop. -The swords pokes are fast enough that you can pressure him, wait, and then continue your pressure again and sometimes catch pot trying to counter. The timing is less than a second, but it's enough to trick a Potemkin into thinking he can hit you. Dog: -Great, great summon. I can juggle Potemkin across the screen with the dog and have a legitimate combo the whole way because he's so heavy. -Get the dog behind him and wait for him to start an attack. The moment he does, that's when you take it to him and really beat him up. -Dog combos can be infinites on Pot. If your so inclined and have the endurance to hold up such a feat, be my guest. Raou: -Obviously the best summon for this matchup, or so you'd think. If you don't get a hit in, your going to be in trouble. You can't exactly opt for a tick throw because Potemkin players will instinctively Pot Buster your as soon as your close enough. -Darkness anthem spam will work great. Watch out for an F.D.B., and you can block it and Edguy whatever he tries to follow it with. -The standard 6HS DA K toss loop is tricky on Potemkin because when he groundslides, most of his hit box is off the screen. It will only work if your at a certain range. However, his size is so huge that you can smack him with Edguy more times than most characters with the right setup and timing. Overall: I can see why a lot of people have trouble with this matchup. His grabs are a huge pain for Zappa because that's one of Zappa's biggest weaknesses, and his new slidehead into ridiculous combo stuff will catch any sloppy Zappa player. 5K, backdash, or jump over Slide head NO MATTER WHAT THE COST. Potemkin's 2S is an annoying move as well, and beware of his 6K overhead. Don't get in the air, just don't. There is nothing Zappa has that will beat Potemkin's anti-airs. Instead, get some pokes in and play mindgames. This is a tough matchup, but you can win despite all of Potemkin's insanely broke stuff. (Yeah, that's a personal opinion, but you can't exactly argue against it.) As usual, tips and comments are welcome.

[lymevirus]

this is zappas worst match in my mind. i think the biggest reason is the basic nullification of the triplets. the fact that theyre damge is crap is fine against most, but not pot. i actually dont like raou in this match. having him out forces you to play pots game. with the gog you can suround him and actually make jumping "safe", and the sword hurts him alot and the ghost are at least good zoning, but raou has none of that(well the hurts him factor) but in this match, raou just isnt that great. so i guess the nulification of the triplets is the second reason this is his worst match.

[~Généràl~]

, this is the best match for zappa IMO- i love this fight..i agree with what Oiboi says ..as long as u 5K, backdash slide head..pot cant advance w/o superjump or Hfall break. 6P/summon works well on those moves. but from the start of the match is when zap is in danger. naked is death. but can still win with nakedness. on zappa, most pot's will strike first, so watch for this and summon , u may get hit but you will have orbs.. im not gonna go over everyting cause Oiboi has done that for us but here is my mission with zaps vs potty sword has good range on all pots moves sept for pots 5H . its long, so watch for that..zaps 5H/2H is good keep away from Hfall and air attack moves if timed right. poke the shit out of him and don't use sword rush without a RC/frc..i rarely use that but have done it from time to time.. ghost are a pain in the ass for pot cause he's so big..he can only FDB them, so don't just throw them out there....once u haunt him, then u proceed to mind game mix up ..note.. if he's haunted. keep him that way but stay out of his PB range. he can FDB every thing that haunts him sept for the banana...but the pots and rocks will be FDB'd if your are not pressuring him. rush rush caution rush!!! Dog-yes. now this is where it gets confusing for pot..once pot see's dog, he gonna try to get away if he's to close with a DJ/SJ or Hfall. air grabs are your friend in this summon state. he will be focused on escape rather than attack..thats when u air grab to keep him right there.this is for when u are at midscreen and dog/pot are close together..he'll try to escape with jumps or Hfall/break or kill the dog..if he's trying to kill the dog -dont attack with dog..instead make an attemps to run up or IAD twards pot. this will cause pot to react to your IAD/run-with a move to punish u for IAD like 6P thats when the dog punishes pot for trying to punish u ..haha and your left with pot getting hit and you have the space to combo off the dogs hit which will force pot into the corner.then u hurt him bad for being in that corner--never let him out ..watch for the jumps and grab his ass, right back where he started.. O while in corner pressure watch out for FB at least let the dog take the last hit for a combo summon.. now-- if you and dog are together then thats diff, cause pot willnot attack much cause he waiting on your 6D to kill doggy. at far range dont do 6D by itself unless your advancing, if thats the case pot will kill the dog, and u get a free summon combo for advancing behing dog..IMO dog kills pot. cause pot will play cautious, or he's supposed to.. try to keep dog close to u unless u,pot,dog are near corner.. this way pot cant hit u without being hit.. if he does a air attack, block it and 8D into air combo..sometimes pot will fake an attack to PB once he hits the ground..especially if he's been hit with the dog and air comboed a few times..thats the time to air grab him and start block strings. If pot is infront of u and dog is behind pot u need to block his strings while advancing the dog or if dog is close enough to attack then attack pot when he attaks u ..haha i could wright a book lol.. but i'll stop there cause it will become natural to u to do these thing. and im tired of typing.... hit pot when he hits you, protect the dog at all cost and the dog will protect u at all cost..then u'll be zappa, and not zappa with a dog summon... ROAH!!!-pot fears him..dont let a pot player destroy this beast of blue thunder..once summoned..pot will completly stop or slow his movements cause the uppercut kills all..i like this mode cause you can pay pot back for all the PB's u may have taken..grab grab grab him..cause first he'll block all the strings you throw and FDB Anthem.. so grab his ass and do something damaging to him..he won't just sit there anymore...he'll try to attack u now cause that grab fucked him up and he don't wan't another 1 of those,,now the uppercut is morelikely to hit..cause he's out of that ima sit still and 44 PB his ass mode. any attack that hit pot will mean almost death for him. ..5H is GL because it knockdown and low anthem will relunch for more damage..some1 might say sum of this is wrong or unsafe ,im not a chart/data readers but i would like their oppinion 2 because this is where learning takes place.. think im done for now but hope this helps my fellow zappa players..edit-love vodka..mmmmmmm ice!! the right pot player will still beat the hell out of u even if u know everything bout zaps...sigh...all cause of the IFFY buster,,

[Phrekwenci]

I played Grygwyn Blood in NEC a few years ago. He doesn't like Zappa and it was close but he put me in the losers bracket (to fight 4 Ky's in a row... ugh). Pot isn't too much trouble now in AC. Keep hovering over the HS button with the summons to keep him at bay and you should have the upper hand.

[Oiboi]

This is probably the only matchup for zappa where I'll say your playstyle is the major factor. The reason being, in most every other matchup I can think of, just playing Zappa has advantages and disadvantages immediately. However, with Potemkin, it's very dependant on your playstyle (and subsequently your opponents, but most pot's have a more or less 'uniform' style of play). If you LOVE to zone and turtle, Pot's in trouble unless you make a mistake and he gets a pot buster. If you LOVE to rush... Good luck. You better be damn good to rush on pot. That's not to say rushing doesn't work. In fact, I love to rush, and I'm terrible at anticipating throws when I'm on defense (one of my biggest faults ), but I can usually keep a safe distance if I pay attention during rushdown. The trick? Naked/Unsummon: -f.S! This is your go-to poke vs Pot PERIOD. ALWAYS throw this out full range. Throw it out past full range to bait 5HS from Pot. Throw it out when he starts going for Hammerfall (at full range, you'll be able to count it as a hit and connect with another to counter it). -f.S! AGAIN! Yes, it really is that vital. The range will keep you safe from Pot buster. Unless he's in block or hit stun, you better be near or past full range. -After f.S run in for BnB into summon combo. Ghosts: -Not sure why you guys say ghosts are bad for this matchup, unless you refuse to zone with them... Alternatively, you can use a mix of rushdown and zoning (There's a certain distance that Potemkin can't exactly do much to you when you have the ghosts). You can toss ghosts and use f.S and 5/6HS to play with his head/hit confirm into a combo (Yes, the ghosts have combos, and they actually deal decent damage). Sword: -5HS. 6HS to an extent as well. Swordswipe, DP. -That's pretty much it, aside from combos. Dog: -It's been said. Raou: -LOLWUT. All pot players think there invincible (not exactly, but you get my point). Defense isn't exactly there strongest point, as they'll always go for a Pot Buster if they think they see an opening. Bait it with Edguy (wait) RC. It's hilarious to see a Pot players face when they get tricked into a counter hit off pot buster ("OMG RAOU IS SO BROKEN WTF!!!!!") -While Raou has a limited mixup, it will often catch most Pot players anyways. Regardless, Chip damage is always nice, and he's huge, so Bellow's Mallice is definitely an option (What's he gonna do, hammerfall? Judge Gauntlet? Seriously, Pot can't get away from that. Even FDB gets beat since it takes too long to start up on reaction). -Raou works splendidly with this matchup. Just get creative: tick throws, trick them with a really fast j.P, whatever. Misc: Did I mention combos? Combos are vital to Pot. Milk any hit for all it's worth. Again, this matchup is very player dependant. I saw first hand how differently Zappa can be played at FRXI, so it's also unlikely for any players to learn how to fight you specifically just by seeing other zappa's playing.

[4Corners]

Hey, I have a Pot up next for my "beat everyone in Colorado" challenge. What are some good dog combos, what moves should I NOT be doing, and how can I train myself to avoid buster set-ups? Also, for his 6HS>Slidehead unblockable, do I just backdash to avoid it? What are some good grab combos with Raoh?

[Dangief]

DON'T FDTHE 6HS. As long as you just normal block it you can backdash or 5k over Slidehead no worries. Don't rely on DA with Raoh, it's super easy to flick. It's mostly about spacing, stay just outside of Potbuster range.

[4Corners]

Wait... REALLY? I was told that you can't do anything on blocking the 6HS. Wtf. Now Imma practice. So I really should be puking my heart out? Guts... whatever. EDIT: WTF? YOU CAN BACKDASH OR 5K IT! I'M SIMULTANEOUSLY HAPPY AND ENRAGED! SUPER EDIT: Any good Zaps v Pot matches I should watch?

[Oiboi]

Wait... REALLY? I was told that you can't do anything on blocking the 6HS. Wtf. Now Imma practice.

So I really should be puking my heart out? Guts... whatever.

EDIT:

WTF? YOU CAN BACKDASH OR 5K IT! I'M SIMULTANEOUSLY HAPPY AND ENRAGED!

SUPER EDIT: Any good Zaps v Pot matches I should watch?

Try to IB the 6HS, or if your at a decent enough range, just backdash away, and you'll be fine.

Combos against pot are basic stuff + 20 more hits because he's so big and heavy. Mixups and spacing is VITAL though, because of how dangerous his pot buster is. Protip: NEVER GET IN THE AIR HOLY CRAP Heatfist seems to grab zappa no matter what. Dog is good, really good, try to get the dog and own him into the ground.

[Zoogstin]

Yeah any and every character can get out of the 6HS-> slidehead thingy. Spread the word. You can safely spam jS with the sword and ghost throws in the air and be out of Heat Knuckle and Heavenly potemkin Buster range at the same time. Staying in the air with ghosts I feel is a great strategy. You'll be on the other side of the screen out of any of Pot's throw ranges as well as be immune to slidehead. Throwing ghosts on the ground with the chance of slidehead CH'ing you is not worth it.

[Oiboi]

Yeah any and every character can get out of the 6HS-> slidehead thingy. Spread the word.

You can safely spam jS with the sword and ghost throws in the air and be out of Heat Knuckle and Heavenly potemkin Buster range at the same time. Staying in the air with ghosts I feel is a great strategy. You'll be on the other side of the screen out of any of Pot's throw ranges as well as be immune to slidehead. Throwing ghosts on the ground with the chance of slidehead CH'ing you is not worth it.

Not bad, but watch out for flicks. He'll use them to advance safely even if it doesn't connect. Trick to this? Bait it by doing P toss FRC Throw setups and stuff like that.

jS with the sword is safe against heat knuckle/heavenly pot buster? Not that I recall... Do you mean j.HS?

[JinSaotome]

At certain ranges, couldn't you prevent flicking with ghosts by doing air 236P FRC 236H? I figure if he flicks the HS ghost, he eats the P ghost

[Zoogstin]

jS with the sword is safe against heat knuckle/heavenly pot buster? Not that I recall... Do you mean j.HS?

Well yeah that too, but the thing is you won't be jumping towards him, or going near him at all for the matter. You want potemkin to come to you. Basically you're just making it hard for Potemkin to approach with a good poke such as j.S. It reaches out far. Honestly if you close enough to get hit by heat knuckle or HPB, then you should probably be using jHS but I don't think that will save you x_______x

[Oiboi]

Well yeah that too, but the thing is you won't be jumping towards him, or going near him at all for the matter. You want potemkin to come to you. Basically you're just making it hard for Potemkin to approach with a good poke such as j.S. It reaches out far. Honestly if you close enough to get hit by heat knuckle or HPB, then you should probably be using jHS but I don't think that will save you x_______x

Ok, that makes more sense. I suggested j.HS cuz I know there are weird instances where it'll beat heat fist but aside from that you shouldn't be jumping that close anyways.

[Phrekwenci]

Seconding the jS with the sword. Along with the any grounded HS move, just watch out for the slide head here with the recovery.

[4Corners]

Hey, I'm reading more about Potemkin now, and I'm learning a lot of things. Still, I am curious, when I block 2s, what do I do? It's obvious that he's going to Pot Buster (at least the one I'm challenging this weekend is), but is there any way to stop it?

[Chomite]

Backdash or 1f jump. I don't know but possibly try sword uppercut or doggy 8D. Pot buster is never a guaranteed move so you just gotta watch out and stay out of his range.

[Phrekwenci]

Backdash or 1f jump. I don't know but possibly try sword uppercut or doggy 8D. Pot buster is never a guaranteed move so you just gotta watch out and stay out of his range.

8D isn't fast enough, I've been caught before. Just get the hell out of there.

[4Corners]

After reading a few things, it seems like I can also grab him. I tried messing around with Pot's 2s>PB tick throw, and found out that (unless I'm doing it wrong) you can squeeze in a Raoh upper, or grab him, or do your naked BnB combo. Hrm...

[Zeero]

After reading a few things, it seems like I can also grab him. I tried messing around with Pot's 2s>PB tick throw, and found out that (unless I'm doing it wrong) you can squeeze in a Raoh upper, or grab him, or do your naked BnB combo. Hrm...

you must be trying to do pot's 2s at a very close range

generally pb range > your grab range

definately wouldn't recommend trying to grab his PB its not worth it. A lot of the options you listed isn't worth it except for Raoh upper. if the pot you're fighting know what hes doing, it means PB frc 2s heat into pot's 50000 painful mixups options.

Backdash is the safest thing you can do because if the pot does 2s 2d instead of 2s tick throw, then you'll get hit by 2d if you try to jump after 2s.

[Chomite]

You can throw Hammer fall and FB judge guntlet.

[Oiboi]

If all else fails, Dead angle or super. Likewise, if he's throwing it out for spacing and not blockstring, you can do f.S and interrupt it.

[Umareru]

Up till yesterday, i used to think this was the worst matchup possible for Zappa. But after some experimenting with different options (an expensive thing to do, seeing as how i did this against a pretty experienced Pot at my local arcade) i found that its not so bad after all. First off, zappa's backdash is short. As such, backdashing away from the dreaded slidehead is often a difficult endeavor. Wait a split second before backdashing, or you'll be in for a helluva ride. I like to start the match by running forward. running 6p will beat his double-fisted long reach punch (6HS, i think?), and hit under his hammer fall. Also beats slide head. Needless to say, if he goes for the heat knuckle hes in for it too. You will also out prioritize him on most of his ground normals, so if he tries any of the above its a free summon for you. Forward mega fist will probably go over you, but its best to FD if you see him start with mega fist. Same with the flick. jumping p is a lifeline in this match. j.p will beat and out prioritize many of his air options, and punishes any slidehead attempts. Watch out for his deadly 6p (the Buddha clap), though. The potemkin i fought was very good with flicking the ghosts back at me. However, there is a way around it. First off, always jump before firing ghosts, for obvious reasons. I usually fire off the standard S toss, baiting a flick, before firing off a P toss. Naturally, if he goes for the flick he will flick away the S ghost toss, but leave himself wide open to eat the P toss. The K toss is pretty good if you think hes gonna try to heat knuckle you, as all he'll be grabbing is a handful of POSSESSION. The damage is pathetic, but pile on the pressure and farm orbs. Dog and sword have already been covered very well, i have nothing to add on those fronts. When using Raou, this is my favourite combo against Pot (and ky and sol and may and a few others): HS, K darkness anthem, j.S, j.HS, Edguy. If he is in the corner, RC and continue Edguy-ing until you run out of tension (2 Edguys per RC). So yeah, he'll be pretty much dead if he tries to burst anytime after the first Edguy, because he'll just be giving you a free Edguy in the air. Stay grounded. When he corners you, don't jump out of the corner. It is instinct to do so, but he will probably be waiting with a heat knuckle or a heavenly potemkin buster. IAD or K if you see a slidehead coming.

[KatanaDash]

I'm not sure if this is common knowledge or not, but I thought I'd also point out that when doing Raoh's 6HS loop on Pot you don't need to put darkness anthem in there, his sliding pose is so tall you can just link 6HS over and over again (you can also do this on eddie with the right spacing btw)

[Phrekwenci]

Zappa forum gets trolled, film at 11! And double negative is a mathematics term, not a grammatical one. A double negative enforces the negative.