[CSE] Iron Tager Combo Thread

[DJ Koopa]

In the corner, with NO magnetism.

FC2C > (j.2C > 5B)x4 > 5C > ASledge> Followup > j.2C > 2B > 2C > AC > j.C whiff > j.2C > 5B > 5C > SB > 6C > j.2C > 3C > GF - 4362dmg, 100+ heat gain.

Also, magnetized 150heat combo from mid screen

2C > MTW > 3C > AC whiff > j.2C > 2B > 5B > 2C > AC > GF whiff > 6C > j.2C > 5B > SB > 6C > MTW > TB > GF - 7311dmg, gains 55 heat over the course of the combo.

not sure if mentioned yet but it seems to can do a 4b+c>6b>AC>whatever follow-up on this you like as far as I can see. Not sure if it's worth anything but it's a combo none the less.

Yeah, that's my default reflex on backgrab, the 6B AC. Just like I autopilot forward grabs with Bsledge > 5C > 6A > AC because...well, I haven't really looked into what might be more optimal for either grab starters. <_<

[NumeroGaijin]

I think we should like have a weekly quota type thing that we Tagers should participate in. For example, I challenge all Tager players to find as many optimal heat gain and damage combos with a 2D starter. Practical, impractical, and situational counts here. I found one (bare in mind I am going by memory because I am at desk at work) that goes something like this: (Your back to the corner) CH 2D>2C>MTW>3C>AC (whiff)>j2C>5B>5C>asledge>followup>j2C>5B>5C>AC>GF (whiff)>6C>j2C>3C>SB>6C>MTW>TB>GF 7935/1 (if you 5B or 2B after the 2nd 3C then SB with whiff...this has only been tested on Ragna but I am sure it works on some others) On some characters such as Lambda/Mu you may have to walk forward ever so slightly then 2C after 2D. It is really hard though but possible.

[A.X.I.S.]

CH 2D>2C>MTW

You just blew my mind how dare you.

Seriously 7.9k is the highest I have seen so far without gold bursts.

[Osuna]

While I do like the revelation of 2D 2C working I don't really care about super esoteric elaborate combos like that (Hitting someone with CH 2D while You're in the corner?). I think the most efficient combos and new combo paths should take priority over that.

So certainly I wouldn't mind people combo smithing on ways to squeeze more damage out of collider into the corner or something. Something worthwhile.

[A.X.I.S.]

He did give us a new idea though.

Stuff>2C>MTW>3C>j.2C>5B>5C>Asledge>Hammer>stuff

This is definitely useful even if it is a bit situational.

I applaud his efforts for this and greatly approve of things like this.

For if the idea is impractical, find ways to make it practical.

[NumeroGaijin]

Well did I mention that it also works outside the corner. You just omit the sledge>followup and do the normal stuff and you still get 7.9k or 7.8k either way it goes. I just told you of only 1 combo not all of them.

[NumeroGaijin]

not meaning to double post but what about CH 2D double burst 2C>MTW stuff....have fun (if possible)

[Manta]

7.6K Variant for when you hit them with 2D CH at a distance:

2D CH, 3C > (AC), ...Wait for it... 236236B, 5B > 5C > 6A > 2C > AC, (22D), 6C, j.2C, 5B > 41236D, 6C > 236236B > 236236B

The trick to getting it to work is to delay the first MTW so that it hits the top back corner of the hitbox so that when you groundbounce them, they hit bounce off of the floor behind Tager, landing close enough to 5B

[Osuna]

He did give us a new idea though.

Stuff>2C>MTW>3C>j.2C>5B>5C>Asledge>Hammer>stuff

This is definitely useful even if it is a bit situational.

I applaud his efforts for this and greatly approve of things like this.

For if the idea is impractical, find ways to make it practical.

I do appreciate his contribution, but what he contributed wasn't a combo, if you get my meaning.

I'd much rather what he did contribute be the focus of our efforts.

Edit:Gold burst has way way too much start up to fit in gaps that small. Just as a general rule you need plenty of untechable time to get one off mid combo. Like off of 2C Fatal or 6C.

[NumeroGaijin]

I do appreciate his contribution, but what he contributed wasn't a combo, if you get my meaning.

I'd much rather what he did contribute be the focus of our efforts.

Edit:Gold burst has way way too much start up to fit in gaps that small. Just as a general rule you need plenty of untechable time to get one off mid combo. Like off of 2C Fatal or 6C.

I understand what you mean Osuna but in all honesty all I am trying to do is maximize heat gain and/or damage combos off of everything. I only started with 2D just to start some sort of trend off for us to find out as much optimal combos be it easy or hard....practical or impractical so we can open our minds to ALL new possibilities and paths instead of the usual this should always be this or that you know. I may not have just as much exp as most of you yet but if it is ok with you Osuna could you support this even if it deviates from the standards of what we all truly deem as a combo.

[Osuna]

I understand what you mean Osuna but in all honesty all I am trying to do is maximize heat gain and/or damage combos off of everything. I only started with 2D just to start some sort of trend off for us to find out as much optimal combos be it easy or hard....practical or impractical so we can open our minds to ALL new possibilities and paths instead of the usual this should always be this or that you know. I may not have just as much exp as most of you yet but if it is ok with you Osuna could you support this even if it deviates from the standards of what we all truly deem as a combo.

I know what you're trying to do. There was no misunderstanding there. I just personally really do not like it. There is potential to gain something, but in this example there was a lot of unimportant(to me) stuff mixed in. When you make your goal different from what is actually useful it just hinders my own goals.So I find my self in opposition out of my own interest in being good at this game.

You could have much sooner and easily have talked about new combo paths and put together new bread and butters, or tested which characters it works on or in what situations it is a punish. It doesn't seem to work on everyone (I don't think it works on Jin at all, his crouching getting hit box seems weird), and Ragna can eat it after a backdashed ID for example. You can do stuff like CH2D 2C ACx2 6C J.2C walk 5B 236A 3C ACwhiff J.2C 5B J.A J.B J.D for over 4.5k meterless using only the mag from the combo. That's just my first draft after messing around for a little bit, but it is all relevant.

By all means play this game however makes you happy. I'm just not approving because something else makes me happy.

[mAc Chaos]

What exactly are you against? Is it too impractical, or is the combo just not a real combo or something.

[NumeroGaijin]

I know what you're trying to do. There was no misunderstanding there. I just personally really do not like it. There is potential to gain something, but in this example there was a lot of unimportant(to me) stuff mixed in. When you make your goal different from what is actually useful it just hinders my own goals.So I find my self in opposition out of my own interest in being good at this game.

You could have much sooner and easily have talked about new combo paths and put together new bread and butters, or tested which characters it works on or in what situations it is a punish. It doesn't seem to work on everyone (I don't think it works on Jin at all, his crouching getting hit box seems weird), and Ragna can eat it after a backdashed ID for example. You can do stuff like CH2D 2C ACx2 6C J.2C walk 5B 236A 3C ACwhiff J.2C 5B J.A J.B J.D for over 4.5k meterless using only the mag from the combo. That's just my first draft after messing around for a little bit, but it is all relevant.

By all means play this game however makes you happy. I'm just not approving because something else makes me happy.

It's ok I understand. You have made your point.

[Osuna]

What exactly are you against? Is it too impractical, or is the combo just not a real combo or something.

When you make the absolute highest damage with unlimited resources your goal, you end up with a combo that starts with tons of meter and a CH 2D with your back to the corner. The thing that makes me object is that on the way to this combo that will never ever help me in a match he passed by tons of stuff that would and only posted the least relevant (to me) information.

He said he had more stuff in his notes too, and I'm pretty sure those notes have a lot of really useful stuff in them, but because his goal wasn't to find useful stuff it gets pushed aside for CH2D out of the corner with lots of heat. I personally think that is a waste.

To each his own as they say.

[NumeroGaijin]

The combo was meant to be an example of what we could do to get some creative juices flowing. I didn't post any of the specifics behind because of what i mentioned in the sentence before this one. That is why in the first post where i put in the actual notation I just wanted to see if I could even spark some sort of interest in the idea of finding out more ways to combo for damage and heat gain off of specific moves. Its sort of similiar to how some posts here way back by Axis (I think ) were see if we could find a legit way of comboing in a fully charged 6A mid combo.

[Osuna]

We're on the same page but you list the goal as finding a combo without any limits to impracticality or resources. There's a difference between finding a new combo route and finding a hyper situational 150heat combo. You certainly can do both at the same time, but I don't really need one of them and if we focused on the other one then we'd get further, faster with it.

Like, Ok, guys raw collider into a corner. No mag, but you have meter. Spark if you want. Special points for unused resources. The answers to that could be super relevant. Or even the opponent has no bursts and you just backdashed Hazama's super mid screen max damage you can get, 100 meter and 1 burst available. Bonus points for starting without mag. Oh hey I just discovered a use for that one combo.

The situation, you need to be in the corner, they need to have no bursts and for them to have 79% life for some reason even though you have a ton of meter (probably getting beasted) and you need to backdash ID and 2DCH for the win. But then he'd probably have a burst if you were getting beasted so hard. And to call an ID out you'd need to probably knock him down. So it'd be like a running it back from there. And then it isn't really a good move for him with a massive life lead to throw high risk moves a lot. Backdash is dangerous in the corner VS ragna when you're low on life too.

It'd be a real long shot call out, but how cool would that be?

[Manta]

Well let's roll with the raw collider into corner thing then. Combo calculator time:

No mag, heat or spark:

623C, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 3C > 22D (3504, 50 heat gain)

623C, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 5B > j.A > j.B > j.D (3517, 47 heat gain)

Skipping out the 6C using j.c whiff is less damage and heat

With heat:

623C, 6C > 23623B, 22D (4129, burst safe -33 Heat)

623C, 236B > 236A, 5B > 5C > 236236B, 3C > 22D (4496, 25 heat gained before MTW, -19 overall)

623C, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 236236B, 3C > 22D (4478. 41 heat gained before MTW, overall -3)

623C, 236B, 5B > 236A > 236A, 5C, 236236B, 3C> 22D (4572)

Sparky:

623C, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 5B > 5C > 41236D, j.2C, 3C (AC), j.2C, 3C > 22D (3983, 67 heat gain)

Both:

623C, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 5B > 5C >41236D, j.2C, 5B >5C > 236236B, > 22D (4672)

WiP...

[Osuna]

AC 236B 236A 5C 236A 5C MTW 3C GF 4744 Just needs 19 heat. 5B before one of the 5C's adds some meter, but drops the damage to only 4599. Builds 31 before the MTW and averages minus 10 overall. It's a little bit tight because the sledges ha to keep the opponent high enough for the manetech wheel so being very fast at some points and a little slow at others makes it work easier.

Also, if you're like me sometime you rapid a MTW overhead only to find it actually hit them>.>. If you have your witts about you, you can confirm into some nice combos to help build back some meter and add onto the damage.

MTW(last hit RC), 6B 2C AC J.C J.2C 5B 5C SB 6C J.2C 3C ACwhiff J.2C 3C GF is 5059 damage and 48 meter back with spark and no mag.

In the corner you can easily get over 50 heat back with the same resources.

Even without spark or mag you can add on 2Kish damage as long as you're paying attention.

[Manta]

When I was doing that 236B variation I found it was pretty tight to get the 5B in after hammer. Am I missing something that lets you do 5C instead?

Also for that RC combo, can't you start with 5C > 236A > 5C > 623C...?

[Osuna]

When I was doing that 236B variation I found it was pretty tight to get the 5B in after hammer. Am I missing something that lets you do 5C instead?

Also for that RC combo, can't you start with 5C > 236A > 5C > 623C...?

You can, but because The last hit doesn't have good proration it changes some of your options post collider.It is also harder to do, strictly speak Bsledge 2C is better, but also much hard to time on the fly. It's mostly that I prefer the other combos. At least I think so I'm running off of memory since I don't take many notes.

The reason the 5B is tight is because if you do it too early it causes problems. 5C after hammer is easy.

[Manta]

You can, but because The last hit doesn't have good proration it changes some of your options post collider.It is also harder to do, strictly speak Bsledge 2C is better, but also much hard to time on the fly. It's mostly that I prefer the other combos. At least I think so I'm running off of memory since I don't take many notes.

The reason the 5B is tight is because if you do it too early it causes problems. 5C after hammer is easy.

So yo need to delay (or charge) Bsledge after the AC a little to knock them higher? Odd but okay.

[Osuna]

So yo need to delay (or charge) Bsledge after the AC a little to knock them higher? Odd but okay.

No you just don't wait. You just do Bsledge hammer 5C. There's nothing tricky about it. Just link hammer to 5C. To reiterate, you don't need to charge or wait for anything, just Do it. There's no trick to change height. There's enough time. It just straight up combos. You could probably mash out the whole combo.

Edit you can also end it with 5B J.A J.B J.D for more damage/heat.

[Manta]

Looks like I need to tighten up my links it seems. Need to spend some time in the lab.

[Osuna]

Maybe if you delayed the hammer too much it'd become impossible, but if you just go for it without hesitation it should work fine.

Edit: Exploring that combo I get 4049/68 with spark by doing AC 236B>236A 5C 236A 5C 5D SB 6C J.2C 3C GF...or was there and AC whiff J.2C in there? I don't remember, looks possible, but little tight given the numbers. Probably'd be easier if I just took out the 5D, but I was in the mood to try and use 5D in a combo.

But with some meter and a sb you can also do AC 236B>236A 5C 236A 5C 5D SB 6C J.2C 3C MTW TB for around the same damage as 720 (5625) add 100 for GF if they aren't dead yet and like 4 if you used 3C GF. I think that's pretty meaningful in a clutch situation. Being able to run it back with less than 50heat and a sparkbolt off of an AC while you're in the corner. It's more than a half life combo on the majority of the cast.

To keep them deep in the corner, in the even you can't kill them, with meter you can do AC 236B>236A 5C 236A 5C MTW 5B 5C MTW and then whatever. Keeps them very deep in the corner for slightly less damage than 720C.

[Manta]

Just tried the link again.... wasn't even hard. I have no idea why I never did it before. Maybe because I was too busy looking up 5B jump cancel combos, who knows?

And there was a whiff AC j.2C in that combo you posted. Just did that and got the exact damage you stated. If you include that, you can't then do, 5B > j.A > j.B > j.D since they'll tech the j.B

If the combo starts with 5C you have to skip the AC fling, but you get 600 more damage overall (4623 with no heat use but with spark) so it's no big loss.

The totally magless, heatless and sparkless combo 5C > AC, 6C > j.2C, 5B > ~5C > ~236A > 236A, j.2C, 3C > GF gets 4229 damage. 5C really is incredible.