Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Toasty

[CSE] Relius Clover Q&A Thread

Recommended Posts

Is the 632146C(Gear super) worth using as a reversal super, or should you save that heat for CA?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it really depends on the situation. as with all reversals, using it too much or being predictable with it is going to cause you a lot of pain. gear super has a really low hitbox so if someone senses it they will just block/safejump on your wakeup to bait it. however, the amount of time it gives you to do w/e (switch sides, setup UB's, recharge ignis, get dmg) makes the risk worth the reward.

while ca is more reliable, you lose a primer in doing so, and more often than not ignis will not be out to combo from it. it can still be baited as well.

best thing to ask yourself with 50 heat: 'will my opponent bait my reversal?'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure if this is entirely the right place for this question, but hey, here goes.

Everyone says Relius' 2C is a bad anti-air. (This is not my experience, but my Relius experience is super limited, so ignore that) Everyone says Tsubaki's 2C is a great anti-air.

Why? These two moves have the same head invulnerability (7-14 frames). They have what look like pretty similar hitboxes (a sort of diagonal upforward sort). Both moves stagger on ground counterhit (Which is handy if your opponent's jump-in whiffs due to the invulnerability and they try another attack anyway on landing) Relius' 2C is actually 1 frame FASTER than Tsubaki's, and can fatal counter.

So... what is it that makes Relius' 2C bad, when everyone seems to regard Tsubaki's as "one of the best anti-airs in the game"? Is it the hitbox? The followups? The fact that he can't jump cancel it on block? What?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's a hitbox difference. tsu's 2c hitbox is similar, except theres a rather large hitbox (about halfway up the wing extension) that is not hittable at all. this is the area falling air-to-grounds, IAD attacks and the like hit, so thats a really good hitbox to have. also the hitbox in the lower wing area extends a little to the left, above tsu's head, so it also works as a situational aa for those directly above her.

relius's hitbox is a little more thin, and his hurtbox extends up the arm. a mistimed 2c will get beat by early air-to-grounds /deep jumpins. relius 2c is -15 on block with limited options after for safety besides lanto/hopefully 3c, whilst jump cancel alone is good for tsu and she has other options for safety as well. plus, with less active/recovery frames than relius', and a follow even on whiff (for those aa baiters) that works even without head invul, tsu's 2c has alot more utility use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
it's a hitbox difference. tsu's 2c hitbox is similar, except theres a rather large hitbox (about halfway up the wing extension) that is not hittable at all. this is the area falling air-to-grounds, IAD attacks and the like hit, so thats a really good hitbox to have. also the hitbox in the lower wing area extends a little to the left, above tsu's head, so it also works as a situational aa for those directly above her.

relius's hitbox is a little more thin, and his hurtbox extends up the arm. a mistimed 2c will get beat by early air-to-grounds /deep jumpins. relius 2c is -15 on block with limited options after for safety besides lanto/hopefully 3c, whilst jump cancel alone is good for tsu and she has other options for safety as well. plus, with less active/recovery frames than relius', and a follow even on whiff (for those aa baiters) that works even without head invul, tsu's 2c has alot more utility use.

Ah, that makes sense! I'd ignored the importance of the lack of hurtbox figuring that the head invulnerability would make that irrelevant, but the lack of hurtbox on most of the wing means that even if it's NOT timed quite right, things work out in her favor.

Thanks for aiding my understanding!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to put some numbers behind what TD already said, Relius' 2C has 25 recovery frames, whereas Tsubaki's has 18, so whiffing Relius' 2C can result in getting hit pretty hard (not to say that you wouldn't for whiffing Tsubaki's, but due to the aforementioned lack of hurtbox, you have less reason to throw it out there as early as Relius would and its hitbox will aid you far more than Relius' would for a mistimed anti-air).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

barely. his mixup is very limited.

unless you do ghetto unblockables in the middle of pressure or something else highly punishable, you're not really looking at much for mixup.

thats why i'm dropping him for his more adorable son and 10 ton daughter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Does Relius has any form of mix ups other than the jump in mix up after 3c>6d?

Mixups after that setup are probably the most common one you'll be doing, but using 6A in a blockstring (with Ignis out) can still be useful for opening your opponent up. It may not be the fastest overhead, but it will still work from time to time as long as you're not being predictable. You can also incorporate delayed throws after 5/2A for a similar effect. Unblockables can also be used, but far less often because they are very slow and can be obvious if your opponent knows what to look for.

Other than mixups, going for seemingly risky pressure with Ignis out can let you CH your opponent with Ignis if they try to punish you (something like doing 6C and then going for a delayed Ignis attack to cover you as you recover would be good example of this).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is what I thought too.

I have an idea about a mix up but didn't test it yet. It is something like gattling > 236D and J.C unblockable. I know it can be easily be punished and reacted to due to the flash ignis makes when doing the move, but what if we summon/un-summon Ignis to fake that same flash then immediatley press a button before getting hit by the opponent? anyone have an idea about this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I can't seem to get 236c to connect with 214b. How do i do it?

Could you please clarify what you're asking? Are you referring to a specific combo or the followup to 236C?

If it's the followup to 236C that you're trying to get, it only works in the air.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm asking about the followup to 236c.

Do i have to do 236c then 214a then jump and then 214b because you can't jump after 236c unless you cancel? It doesn't connect no matter what i do against Carl.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm asking about the followup to 236c.

Do i have to do 236c then 214a then jump and then 214b because you can't jump after 236c unless you cancel? It doesn't connect no matter what i do against Carl.

You have to be in the air and do j214B after j236C. On the ground, you can only follow up 236C with 214A, but in the air you can choose between j214A and j214B.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are some good/tight blockstrings that Relius has? Also, if I can ask a second question, what's a good way to set up the Geara Act unblockable?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What are some good/tight blockstrings that Relius has? Also, if I can ask a second question, what's a good way to set up the Geara Act unblockable?

As far as blockstrings go, your most basic ones would be things like [5B > 2B > 6D > dash 5B > 2B > 6D]xn and [5B > 2B > 3C > 6D/2D > falling jC]xn but with Relius you generally want to leave slight gaps in your pressure to act as frame traps if your opponent tries to poke out. A simple adjustment to the above blockstrings to make frame traps would be to simply slightly delay the 6D and/or the next move you do afterwards. You also want to go for seemingly risky or reckless moves and then cover yourself with Ignis when your opponent tries to punish you. To use that first string as an example again, doing 5B > 2B > 6C > (slight delay) 6D (or an immediate 214A, but you can be punished for this if your opponent is observant, so use it more sparingly). If anyone tries to punish you for using 6C, the 6D will CH them. Basically, the first two blockstrings are a very good place to start, and they both allow for slight variations to give you frame traps and mixup.

As for blockstrings with 236D, you could just gatling into it from a normal, but that's very slow and your opponent will almost always see it coming. 214D as corner oki can actually be set up very easily, however: xx > 236C > 214A > 6B > j236C > 2C > 6C > 4D > backdash 3C > 214D > 3C (as 214D hits). This setup will beat everything except for a delay tech or reversals, so it can be very useful as well as allowing you to go right back into a combo (the combo I listed is a good choice for such a setup because it used minimal IC for its damage and should allow you to go for the same combo after the unblockable hits if you weren't too low on meter going into the first combo). If you're still looking for a 236D unblockable, you could do: 632146C (ground hit) > 6C > 236D > jA (~2 hits) > jC (as 236D hits). It's pretty solid, but it's also more situational than the first unblockable and it takes 50 heat.

This ended up being a bit longer than I intended, so sorry if it feels a little tl;dr.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Relius, your BNB blockstrings are

[with Ignis]

-stuff>3C~D jc airdash mixup

-normally unsafe move>6D

-stuff>214A

-[normals>6D>dash] x N

-stuff>6A>2D/6D

[without Ignis]

-stuff>D

-stuff>3C jump cancel shenanigans

-2A x N

-stuff>214A

214A is really plus, 2a is +1, 2D is advantage if respected (there's a gap between the two hits), 6D can be advantage if done late enough after something

Make sure you can do staggers with proper timing, i.e., when you do things like [5B>6D] x N make sure the 6D is delayed enough to give their normals time to come out but not so delayed they get to active frames and hit you. (Basically, just make sure it's actually a frametrap when you do it.) You can practice this in training by either recording a dummy mashing 1A and playing it back while you blockstring against it or setting the opponent's block to whatever the setting that isn't all, random, or only after first hit is. If they get hit by your 6D when you do the blockstring, you're using the right timing.

Learn when to desummon Ignis in pressure and back out. Make a judgment based on whether or not you'd be able to follow up your next mixup with a combo if it hit given the amount of Ignis meter and regular meter you have.

Don't do unblockables unless your opponent is respecting hard or it's an okizeme situation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A neat little left/right mixup, requires some respect

2A 3C 866 j.2D or 2A 3C 766 j.2D

Done at the proper spacing, it can be quite ambiguous, as Ignis will hit the opponent right as Relius is about crossup to or after he crosses up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×