VR-Raiden Report post Posted March 31, 2012 Block Punishes vs Tager: Guaranteed: j.2C (anywhere but right above ground) - (dash) 5B 236A - IB > 5A (also CH out of Hammer) 236A/B > 236A - (dash) 2C Magna Tech Wheel - FC 2C (also FC out of immediate Terra Break, barely) - During flash BK > FC 2C (also FC out of Terra Break) - Before last hit BK > FC 2C (also FC out of Terra Break) - After last hit BK > 2C (also beats Terra Break) Magna Tech Wheel > Terra Break - dash 2C - During flash BK > FC 2C Not Guaranteed but Good to Know: *3C - IB > ID© *5D - IB > ID© *Notes: IB > ID© beats cancel to any special except Voltec Charge, which will autoguard it. Anyone let me know if something isn't true or feel free to add anything I miss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
floatwater Report post Posted April 25, 2012 My neutral game is asss. the only time i ever tried that shit it was with rampage chuck and my god the sledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godlike Assault Report post Posted April 25, 2012 6D still one of the best move against him if he don't do a goddamn backdash Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-Kid Report post Posted May 24, 2012 6C is very good for catching tager's back dash. Pay particular attention to the fact that the second hit of 6C will hit him while the first hit whiffs. If you are also good with your spacing, you can get a lot of 6C starters at neutral. Don't do this too often though, just when the tager least expects this at neutral. I've gotten a lot of 6C starters from neutral since tager's most likely won't be blocking low, the match will sometimes bs spent with both players waklking back and fourth. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MashThat5A Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Ragna vs Tager [General Thoughts] 5-5. Both characters are stronger in this version. Don't be stupid and Tager won't touch you. --- [start of the Match] Air dash back j.C. You're now around half a screen away from Tager. Get comfortable here. --- [Fullscreen Neutral] - At this range, Tager is either charging Spark Bolt, jumping, or walking forward. You don't want any of these to happen, so move closer. Ideal positioning is tip of 5C range. - If he has Spark Bolt, be careful. You can Carnage Scissors through it, but don't try. It's a waste of meter and insanely risky. --- [Midscreen Neutral] - You should be spending most of the match here. [Tager's Super Jump] - If Tager does super jump immediate j.C to try and gain more ground, jump up and hit him out of the recovery / pressure him. - During a regular super jump, you can back dash > Dead Spike and force him to block. - You can go for an anti air, but make sure to watch out for j.2C. 6A is fine so long as you time it correctly, but less conventional anti-airs like 5D > Dead Spike can also be okay since Tager doesn't have the mobility to avoid it. - If they're being super respectful and doing super jump > barrier, jump up and pressure / throw them, or run under them and try to cross them up / create more space. [Tager's Normal Jump] - 6A is a lot stronger for dealing with this. - Going air to air to generally not recommended because he'll likely be already pressing a button by the time you react and you'll get hit. - If you react too late, don't risk getting 360'd and just back dash to reposition yourself. [Ground to Ground] - Tager eats footsies for free, so poke at him with 5C and 2D. Counter hits with either of these are easy to confirm into at least some damage. - If the Tager start playing more patiently, as in, he starts blocking mid-walk to bait 5C/2D, run up and attempt to score a mix-up on him. Be careful here and be sure to get out quickly if his blocking is good. [Air to Ground] - A well spaced j.C can be a great poking tool, since Tager doesn't have a way to reliably anti-air it. [i Got Magnetized] - Run, run far away. 5C is no longer safe on block unless you cancel into Gauntlet Hades or DP, which are both extremely risky. 6A will eat 5B and 5C for free and pull you in for a combo. You're better off waiting full screen for the magnetism to run out. - Make sure to punish any whiffed magnetism moves he uses to try and get in faster. - If you need to poke with something, 2D is still good, since it beats 6A and has great range. Just be sure to hit with the tip. --- [Tager's Back to the Corner Neutral] - Be patient, but now that he can't back dash as easily life becomes a lot harder for him. Pressure him with well spaced normals. - You still want to be extremely careful because if you're hit, now you're in the corner. [Ragna's Back to the Corner Neutral] - Ideally, you want to run under his super jump or super jump air dash out. Hitting him also works. --- [Tager's Pressure] - If you're here, it's because you messed up in neutral or Tager made a very good guess. Ragna's back dash is terrible, so if he's very close you have to press buttons. Randomly pick between DP/Mash/Jump and hope you guess right, because if not you lose 1/3 of your life and you have to guess again. Counter assaulting him is the best way out. [Ragna's Pressure] - Be careful. There are a lot of holes for him to mash 360. Be quick and get out. - Tager can Sledge through Dead Spike. - Gauntlet Hades is easily back dashed and is a free punish if blocked. Avoid it if you don't have meter. [Gadget Finger] - DP/5A or Block/Jump. Pick one. Meter means nothing because he can back dash your DP. Good luck, and hope you guess right. - Tager can do an OS against Gold Bursts, so you don't want to Gold Burst here. [Ragna Okizeme] - 22C back dash / air dash back or Hell's Fang air dash back are the safest options and puts you in a good position. - 3C > j.B is meh because he can back dash the j.B on wake-up, putting you in a bad position. --- [Random Stuff] Fuzzy Guards on Tager are even easier in this game. *Work in Progress* Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mAc Chaos Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Sounds solid except for the MU being 5-5, especially with Ragna being S tier. 5-5 means both sides have equalish answers to everything. This is more like Ragna keeping Tager out with his superior normals until you screw up. Then again, I don't play either of them. :3 Just seems like common sense though. It kind of feels like fighting Lambda. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MashThat5A Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Sounds solid except for the MU being 5-5, especially with Ragna being S tier. 5-5 means both sides have equalish answers to everything. This is more like Ragna keeping Tager out with his superior normals until you screw up. Then again, I don't play either of them. :3 Just seems like common sense though. It kind of feels like fighting Lambda. The matchup was 5-5 in CS2, and the "Tier gap" was the same. Ragna's buffs don't really affect this matchup much other that it's slightly more difficult to 2C him, but 2C is already ass. Oh, and there's some instant overhead stuff, but you could do it in CS2. It's just easier now. By the way, if you look at my writeup for VS. Lambda, you'll see that I think that matchup is 5-5 also. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mucky Report post Posted June 29, 2012 As a Tager main, I would say Ragna's j.C buff helps him out a lot. I noticed that your write-up doesn't mention j.C very much; it's a good option for getting in on Tager because, other than a yomi collider, Tager's anti-airs aren't reliable for stuffing a properly spaced j.C. And you can end pressure with a 3C/6C > high jump away if you don't land a hit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MashThat5A Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Trying to end pressure with 2C>6C is risky since you can get mashed out. 3C is okay but you can't abuse the jump cancel too much otherwise you'll get snatched up by Atomic Collider. (only if you're using 3C too close, at max range it's fine) And yeah, I know that j.C is a good tool for approach. I just don't think Ragna should really be approaching in this matchup unless the Tager is being very passive, in which case approaching becomes a lot easier anyway. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mAc Chaos Report post Posted June 29, 2012 The matchup was 5-5 in CS2 Was it? I thought Ragna had an advantage there too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MashThat5A Report post Posted June 29, 2012 Nope, it was 5-5 in CS2. 5-5 means both sides have equalish answers to everything. Or that both sides are overwhelmingly dominant in equal enough ways for it to balance out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KayEff Report post Posted June 30, 2012 you should mention that when tager super jumps, you can run under him for a cross up, then attack with whatever. j.2C still beats this, but it isn't that hard to see coming. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MashThat5A Report post Posted June 30, 2012 you should mention that when tager super jumps, you can run under him for a cross up, then attack with whatever. j.2C still beats this, but it isn't that hard to see coming. I thought I did? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeron_X25 Report post Posted June 30, 2012 you should mention that when tager super jumps, you can run under him for a cross up, then attack with whatever. j.2C still beats this, but it isn't that hard to see coming. j.2C doesn't beat this if you've crossed him up and positioned yourself at 5C/5B range. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
