Ky Kiske vs Sol - 5-5/Even

[Mr. Mamation]

Begining the Match: When starting the match it is usually a good idea to backdash at the start, his 5S at the start of the match stuffs anything you try and the only way he can hit ky is by taking a huge risk(GV). Jucy G tells me that if you let the special intro happen Ky will have a huge advantage at the start because they are further away than normal. Zoning: When playing against Sol you should always try to keep him out at all times. Using 5S ,2S , 5H and 2D as keep out tools is a good idea. If you do decide to presure him at all only do it after knockdown and do moves that have advantage on block. For example sometimes I will 2K as meaty but hold back in case he VV's. In the event you get Sol to block try to throw out 2K, 2P, and 5P and mix up throws. Once he is in the corner you dont have to be as shananigany, just dont forget about 5K or VV when doing mixups. As far as stun edges are concerned only do them at full screen or in a combo. Not even in a block string cause some Sol players can react to it and GV. Other things to keep in mind: -Sols 2D completely avoids Kys VT -Use GS if you see Sol wiff 2D -GS can go over GF and CH Sol -2S beats out GV -6P beats out RS -When in the corner a Sol player will try to use GV or RS to get out of the corner so use respectable moves to what you think the player will use. If you can react to it then cool, but usually its a guess (sometimes 2H is the better choice). -2K at its very tip is safe against VV I think thats it.

[Darkhonor90]

I'll give my take on this in a while *Reserved for stuff jajaja*

[excelence]

adding some input: -.Ky 5s isn't a realy safe pooking tools VV will stuff the moves from it's very tip -.Sol iad j.s can stuff up ky 6p

[Mr. Mamation]

I did forget to mention not to AA Sols jS or jH after his IAD with 6P but I doubt anyone can VV far Slash on reaction. If the opponent can it is just being used too much or its being telegraphed. But really I just use far Slash to keep Sol out and 2S to poke most the time.

[excelence]

well yeah i usualy guess if he'll 5s me but i still think if the pro can see it coming =| and 2s/5hs is much better poking tools v sol IMHO

[Shinobi!]

Good tips Jeremy. I will say this though. Only use SE when you assure yourself that you can FRC them. Altho its 50/50 depending on how fast the Sol reacts, but it is very very rewarding by either using 2S or just blocking it and punish afterwards.

[excelence]

6h, don't use it except u're certain it will hit. Sol can and will punish it with GF on start up or BB/GV on recovery j.d/fb into CSE is asking to be pawned by VV 2d under SE... ky can always frc and punish it with GS

[Mr. Mamation]

Good tips Jeremy. I will say this though. Only use SE when you assure yourself that you can FRC them. Altho its 50/50 depending on how fast the Sol reacts, but it is very very rewarding by either using 2S or just blocking it and punish afterwards.

A few questions:

How safe/unsafe is 6H from mid-to-far range?

How safe/unsafe is j.D (or 214D FB) into Air CSE?

If Sol 2D's under SE, is there something Ky can follow up with?

Its all mindgame, decide what you want to use depending on the suituation. There are times where anything can be okay if you make your opponent think you will do something else. What I listed in the first post was pretty much the textbook way to fight against Sol.

[axel]

Start the match with 5P to beat Sol's f.S, then f.S into 2S for faster recovery.

[Darkhonor90]

Start the match with 5P to beat Sol's f.S, then f.S into 2S for faster recovery.

5S Beats Sol's F.S as well at the start of the match

[Mr. Mamation]

uhhhh, kys far slash has 10 frames of startup while Sols has 7.

[purify]

Think I'm with Jeremy here. f.S in general kinda blows imo, I don't use it for anything except in rare cases when I need a poke where 5HS won't quite reach. Blake can VV f.S on reaction. 10 frames isn't exactly fast in this game. I'd agree that backdash/getting away is the best thing you can do at match start and yes, keeping Sol away is the most important thing. Yes, Sol's 2D completely dodges VT at any range. Your options as you're waking up to a Sol 2D are either block or RTL. GS does go over gunflame, but if you misstime it, lol gg. He should have FRCd it anyway, so if he sees/anticipates the GS, he can punish it regardless. It was mentioned earlier that 2S can stop GV, yeah, but this is also really good and worth mentioning: Sol players love seeing Ky's CSE startup from far enough away for them to GV under it, but in this game you can activate the force break whicih GV will not go under and give you a free combo, and likely a better combo/situation than if you just FRCd CSE, which could still possibly end up getting you hurt if you misstime what you wanted to do to beat it/don't block. Also speaking of punishing GV, I like 5HS > sweep. Be sure to knock him down at least. I'm sure you can get more with IB/slashback, if you don't mind the risk/practice it. If they're doing BR pressure for some reason, VT it. 2H works better than 6P for AA imo, be careful with anti air VT and Sol's j.HS instant recovery properties. In general, you want to play safe, keep him away, watch for throw if he gets close. Like somebody else said, SE FRC is really good here, but where is it not? Same with Mystic Cross.

[Veteru]

Actually Darkhonor is right. Ky far S beats Sol far S. Please don't list post up random frame data without trying it yourself first.

Sol vs. Ky is one of my favorite matchups (after Ky vs. Ky, hehe), so I've picked up a few things over the years.

Here's the breakdown: Sol far S is faster (7f startup), but only has 1 active frame.

Ky far S is slower, BUT on frame 7 it has a 'dodge frame'. You beat Sol's far S by "not being there". Doing it at the start of the match means you have to have confidence in two things:

Your opponent's ability and your own. How reliably do you think they can far s on the very first possible frame, and how reliably can you do it? If you're confident in both then it used to be worth going for. Sadly, because of the stun dipper nerf, far S no longer combos into stun dipper in this situation (another reason I hate AC Ky). I don't advise it anymore because the risk/reward ratio is horrible now... at least you could get a knockdown before.

Veteru

[Mr. Mamation]

Actually Darkhonor is right. Ky far S beats Sol far S. Please don't list post up random frame data without trying it yourself first.

Sol vs. Ky is one of my favorite matchups (after Ky vs. Ky, hehe), so I've picked up a few things over the years.

Here's the breakdown: Sol far S is faster (7f startup), but only has 1 active frame.

Ky far S is slower, BUT on frame 7 it has a 'dodge frame'. You beat Sol's far S by "not being there". Doing it at the start of the match means you have to have confidence in two things:

Your opponent's ability and your own. How reliably do you think they can far s on the very first possible frame, and how reliably can you do it? If you're confident in both then it used to be worth going for. Sadly, because of the stun dipper nerf, far S no longer combos into stun dipper in this situation (another reason I hate AC Ky). I don't advise it anymore because the risk/reward ratio is horrible now... at least you could get a knockdown before.

Veteru

I have tried it and Sol beats Ky everytime so its not "random" frame data fyi.

The only way for Ky to beat Sol in the begining is if the round soundly is to let the intro play out. As far as that 1 frame you have to get far slash to work I want to see vids of this because I am very specticale. Though even if it is true 1 frame is a little too strict.

[Darkhonor90]

The only reason I said Far Slash beats Sol's Far Slash because it was working for me during the last tournament vs 2piece

He always started out with Far Slash and I did my Far Slash and it beat his and I did it at least 5 times or so and it worked every time beginning of the round. So thats why I said it.

Either he was doing it a bit late or Im right and it does beat it

Blake can VV f.S on reaction.

Uh wtf? 10 frames is pretty damn fast. The fastest MOST people can react to is 13 or 14 frames last time I checked and thats hard in itself. But to react to a 10 frame poke and input it a DP before it comes out? Sounds a bit like BS to me

[purify]

I recall this happening twice, and he doesn't randomly VV. It was near the tip of the hitbox, too. I don't do f.S often though, I hate the move.

[Veteru]

I have tried it and Sol beats Ky everytime so its not "random" frame data fyi.

The only way for Ky to beat Sol in the begining is if the round soundly is to let the intro play out. As far as that 1 frame you have to get far slash to work I want to see vids of this because I am very specticale.

I'm sorry if you weren't able to reproduce it, but it's a fact. I always skip the intro so it has nothing to do with the new intro.

If you tried it against live opponents, it's possible that either your skill or your opponents skill isn't high enough to consistantly attack on the first frame of the match. My suggestion if you want to test the validity of this is to load up training mode and simply try pressing the button on both player's sides simultaneously (press select to reset to default starting distances). It has both a timing and spacing requirement, so make sure only to try it at the default starting position.

I don't have a capture card so I can't provide you with any videos... maybe one of the more well known ky players with capture cards can record it.

Though even if it is true 1 frame is a little too strict.

Saying that is kind of pointless. I'm not trying to convince anyone to open the match with far S, just saying that it will beat sol's far s if both players have perfect timing.

Veteru

[Mr. Mamation]

I'm sorry if you weren't able to reproduce it, but it's a fact. I always skip the intro so it has nothing to do with the new intro.

If you tried it against live opponents, it's possible that either your skill or your opponents skill isn't high enough to consistantly attack on the first frame of the match. My suggestion if you want to test the validity of this is to load up training mode and simply try pressing the button on both player's sides simultaneously (press select to reset to default starting distances). It has both a timing and spacing requirement, so make sure only to try it at the default starting position.

I don't have a capture card so I can't provide you with any videos... maybe one of the more well known ky players with capture cards can record it.

Saying that is kind of pointless. I'm not trying to convince anyone to open the match with far S, just saying that it will beat sol's far s if both players have perfect timing.

Veteru

I hope someone can because I cant seem to get it to work at all.

[Teyah]

If you have #Reload on PC, simply set both players' Slash to the same button in the config then go into a match and hit S at the beginning. Ky's 5Sf will win out against Sol's every time.

[JetEnduro]

I'll try to get a vid of it.

[purify]

we could try to discuss the matchup and stop calling each other on trivial things like this but we always do that so shrug

[Shinobi!]

I actually accept any arguments on any matchup because this is what it may come up to. No 2 Ky players are alike. Just dont let it get too out of hand.

[HeartBuri XD]

Uhh, Ky's a bum now, so Sol beats him a bit, 6-4. Whats makes this fight even?

I hope this is a joke post, otherwise list some reasons why.

[Shinobi!]

I am very very sick and didnt want to go through this. Keep this on topic please good sirs?

[Sytha]

I'll add more in a bit but I'll start right now. Grand Viper:There are a few counters to GV. If you block one look at the amount of tension Sol has. If he is over 50% then he most likely plans on Roman cancelling into a mix up.(most likely Wild throw) However the gap between the final hit and whatever hit came before it (doesn't matter but Sol can control the number of hits.) is a pretty long gap. Using this info there is a lot of choices you have; 1.Throw him. GV puts Sol really close to you so its pretty easy to just grab him before the hit. 2.Jab him. Any of the faster normals will work from there it's just combo into knockdown. 3.Backdash. In theory this is the best choice since you can pretty much punish Sol with whatever into big damage. But this one is the most risk. I'll put more random crap up later.