[CSE] Jin vs Tager

[Moy_X7]

Match Start

His 5A will beat everything you throw at him at the start of the match.

Your best bet is to just retreat as soon as the match starts so you can start poking him

Neutral

Full Screen

You can throw some Ice Blades at him to try and get a response. There's nothing he can do to you at this range unless he has Spark Bolt, at which point you need to stop firing Ice Blades at him and try to bait it.

Long-Mid Range

Some Tagers will try to super jump towards you to try and close the gap. What you can do is attempt an air throw, try to anti-air him with DP A or B/2C, air-to-air him with jump away j.C, or just run under him to attempt a cross-under or to simply just widen the gap between you and him.

Other Tagers will attempt to close the gap with a B Sledge. The more he charges it, the further it will travel so it is imperative that you know just how much distance a charged and a non-charged B Sledge covers so that you can punish him accordingly. If he's at non-charged B Sledge range, you can try 5C'ing him. If he's at fully charged B Sledge range, you can just ram him with an Ice Car or do 66 5C if you're feeling confident. When in doubt, just super jump out of harm's way.

Other than that, just poke him with 5C, j.C, and 2D. Just don't be too predictable with j.C or 2D because he can 2D you out of air-to-ground j.C if timed correctly and he can B Sledge through 2D.

You have to be careful when trying to poke him when you're magnetized since his D moves will pull you towards him, successfully increasing their attack "range".

Offense and Defense

Your Offense vs His Defense

Once you get in on him, try to keep your strings tight enough so that you don't get 360A'd or eat a 2C mash. That means lots of 2A/5A staggers and some occasional trapping with 2B > Delayed 5C. You really don't want to be in Tager's face longer than you need to, so don't try risky pressure resets such as 5C > 6B/2D or anything > 6D, it's just not worth the risk of eating a Buster or a 2C mash into dumb damage + dumb GF shenanigans. You can try some JC pressure resets from time to time but just remember that his 2A beats your j.B for free and there's always his 2C mash to be aware of. He can also Sledge through your 5C > 2D strings so don't be too predictable with those.

Here are your options after you score a 214B/C knockdown on him:
1) If he does an emergency tech immediately after 214B/C, do a micro dash 5A (66 5A) as oki. He'll get tagged by 5A if he attempts a 360A or if he pushes any other button on wake-up. If he does wake-up > back dash, let the 5A whiff and use 5B immediately thereafter; it will tag him out of his back dash. You can just auto-pilot the 5A > 5B for a confirm, to tag him out of a backdash or to start pressure.
2) if he DOESN'T emergency tech immediately after a 214B/C, then use 5C. He'll get tagged by 5C if he tries to roll forward and backward or if he tries to do a quick rise > buttons. The only problem here is that if he does a delayed neutral tech, your 5C will whiff and you'll be forced to retreat as you've lost your frame advantage.

You really have to be careful when attacking and pressuring him when he has 50 meter. Hell, you'll probably have to avoid being close to him at all after 214B/C knockdown when he has 50 meter as he can play guessing games on his own wake-up with 720 and Atomic Collider. If you finish a combo in the corner, then you don't have to worry about wake-up AC but you still have to worry about 720.


His Offense vs Your Defense

Gimmicks and Misc. Info

Gimmicks

List of Punishes

[Jyosua]

Keep in mind I'm a scrub, so I'd appreciate if a better player corrected/verified my thoughts here.

So far, I've found it best with Tager to abuse max-range pokes for small, but effective combos. I find it's best to start matches off with a 5C, given Tager's humongous hitbox; if the Tager is dumb enough to try a normal, you've got him for a counterhit combo, but if he blocks it's a sign that he probably knows the matchup well. Be careful about zoning him with Ice Swords... Sledgehammer can be a pain to deal with. I also found that it's almost always necessary to back-dash on Tager's wakeup, because more often than not, he'll try a grab of some sort. Just be very, very careful when he has meter, because that 5620 damage from Tager Buster HURTS. He can also throw in a Gadget Finger after hitting you with that move.

[Moy_X7]

1. His 5A stuffs your 5C at that range, Tagers that know that you'll use 5C at the start of the match will use 5A to counter it.
   
2. You don't zone him with Ice Swords unless you're out of non-charged B Sledge's range. You zone him with j.C or 2D when he's approaching from the air.
   
3. You use a well timed 2A or a back j.C on his wake-up. Once he has the meter to 720 then you just j.C him on wake-up. You don't backdash on him, that's just a waste of a knockdown.
   

[Jyosua]

Tager's 5A actually doesn't have the range to stuff my 5C unless he takes a tiny step forward. I just double-checked this, because I know I've gotten counterhits off Tager's starting a match with 5A. Does he have enough time at the start of a match for a step forward and a 5A if I use 5C from the very first frame of the match? We're talking precise timing, so I can't really verify this without 2 people, and PSN is down T_T

I'll keep the bit about ice swords and wakeups in mind. Thinking about the wakeups now, it does make sense that a back j.C would work. I'm going to give that a try, thanks.

[Moy_X7]

I speak from experience, Tagers have stuffed my 5C with 5A at the start of the match more times than I can count. I don't know if they're taking a step forward but technically they have just enough time to do so.

[Jyosua]

If you're getting your 5C stuffed at match start, that answers my question: yes, they have enough time to step forward. That sucks, but by that same token, I wonder if I can just move back a little, if I know they're going to 5A. What do you generally open matches with?

[xlolxlolx]

super jump to see how they react, neutral j.s, iad backwards, tk j.236c, 623a/b, iad air throw, backdash and 2c if they do some superjump crap

[Moy_X7]

If you're getting your 5C stuffed at match start, that answers my question: yes, they have enough time to step forward. That sucks, but by that same token, I wonder if I can just move back a little, if I know they're going to 5A. What do you generally open matches with?

5C

If they 5A me then I just do something else like IAD backwards or some other neutral action.

[TheYukianesa-01]

I've noticed that DPing a reckless Tager while he's using his magnets is pretty effective.