[Accent Core] Order-Sol General Discussion

[Darkhonor90]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHdBZWpVCHc

Looks like Order Sol's Rock It goes farther and causes knockdown now

anything else you guys can tell from the video?

[SolxBadguy]

only on counter hit does it cause knockdown

[Fenrir]

Knockdown WTF? He didn't even hit her with it, I don't know where you're seeing that. Specific time in the vid? Nevermind, just saw it. He caught her in the air with it. Also. 2D has a NOTICABLE range extension, which is very nice. And 2H looks faster WOOT.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

2H also appears to have more range, for some reason.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Finally did a proper translation of the AC changes from the wiki: ORDER-SOL: Force Break: Fafnir (41236D). Unblockable, or maybe hits mid? Damage isn’t high, but is fairly fast and can be used regardless of Charge level. Looks like Potemkin’s Judge Gauntlet with a Power Geyser coming out of it. Changed specials: Action Charge: Short recovery. It is possible to Charge Cancel moves now to reduce recovery. Charge command changed to 214D. You no longer have to tap Dust while charging and it is even faster than the “best” Charge from Slash. Basically, you can go from no Charge to level 3 in about the same time as Jam’s power-up special takes to execute. When you use higher level specials the Charge gauge reduces gradually instead of all at once. Things like level 3 Block Head Buster, level 3 Block Head Buster, level 2 Block Head Buster are possible. Rock It: Causes sliding knockdown on counterhit now. Changed normals: 2D: Has more reach like normal Sol’s. 5S(f): Looks kind of like normal Sol’s standing HS. It is aimed slightly upward and is faster than the previous far Slash. Jump cancelable. 2S: Feels like it hits much “harder” than before, more hitstun associated with it? j.S: Longer reach. Air Throw: Longer untechable time? The blogger left a comment that basically, at this point in time, Axl and Order-Sol are the strongest characters. My own views? If all of this stays intact between now and final release, then we are potentially looking at an EXTREMELY strong character. You can never be too sure (cuz I thought HOS was broken when I initially looked at Slash and we all see how that one turned out), but these are some really tremendous changes. Charge Cancel alone should make his offensive game massively better because he will be able to grab on to much larger frame advantages and do some really ghetto CH tricks. His Charge sounds way too good now, getting level 3 on a regular basis should be very easy and will make for some ridiculous lockdowns and combos. Rock It knocking down on CH makes it an even more viable move for when HOS is outside of his ideal range. All in all, I hope that most of this is retained or only slightly tweaked between now and final release. HOS deserves to be a little broken after being so shitty in Slash.

[zer0kage]

Regular Sol is shown to be broken now (see the Sol vs Millia vid his combo is sick) but if you see the most recent vid which has May vs Order Sol that FB move appears to be very useful. The May player got hit by it twice 2 out of 2 attempts. First one is a counter hit, while the 2nd one is caused by the May player trying to rush into HO Sol. HIs new far S has nice range and may serve as a decent anti air. Does his damage still prorate very badly? I can't see clearly in those vids but this factor alone can determine whether Order Sol will be broke or not. A jP,P,S,jc,HS,lvl2SV (7hits) doesn't appear to do so much damage as it didn't finish off May's remaining 25-30% life.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Yeah, but combos like that never do that much damage. Right now HOS is a setup character who needs to get into certain positions to do damage. However, imagine if you were able to get level 3 off of one knockdown. Level 3 means lots of no Tension, high damage combos and better mixups and lockdown. If things remain as they are in the betas, HOS will be broken. BTW, that Sol combo on Millia isn't that broken. It's Millia. She doesn't take damage very well at all.

[zer0kage]

I should have known who was the one being hit by that combo. Amazing how the loss of a loop can tremendously change a character's playstyle (Millia) though it's better since you're learning how to use the character more indepth instead of getting easy damage like that.. Back to topic.. nothing much else to say but I'm sure there is lots of room for change but at least we know what he could be capable of. His meter should decrease faster it decreases really slowly in the vids so far. Level 3-2 BhB is his main asset in lockdown isn't it? Are his SV, and Rock It at lvl3 actually good moves when used stand alone other than for damage? Anyway it's still beta and changes will still take place though I don't want a big nerf to his Slash self.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Rock It at level 3 is good because you don't need meter to combo off of it and it combos off of 2S easily at multiple ranges. It's also safe on block because the last hit is JCable. Level 3 Storm Viper is okay, you can use it in the same guard break scenarios as any other Storm Viper and get a free combo as long as your momentum doesn't screw you up so the last hit doesn't connect. It also has a lot more invincibility and starts up faster. Can be a pretty scary reversal.

[Fenrir]

I love his new stuff. But as for jumping straight to top-tier, which is what I'm assuming will happen, it kind of puts me off... 'cause I sorta liked using someone that no one else gave a shit about. Now people will be on Hoss like a fat chick on cake. > Though with the new charge system, my AC FRC followup theories may very well be possible now... BHBLv3, AC FRC Storm Viper Lv3, AC FRC, BHB Lv3, land, aircombo to BHBLv2. Fucking hot damn that shit is TOO GOOD. EDIT: I wonder if any combos are possible off of 2D, Fafnir RC? And I wonder if they're worth 75% tension. And also, oh snap I think Hoss has an unblockable now. Well either that or an EXTREMELY rediculous crossup. Lv3 Gunblaze FRC, Lv3 Gunblaze... fire pillars will be fucking everywhere, I dunno about anyone else but I'd be completely baffled on which direction to block that shit. That is, if the Lv3 Gunblaze FRC is in the same spot.

[Darkhonor90]

Order Sol's 623 HS is now 3 hits and the time for tech is long so HOS is pretty safe and depending on the height you can even go for Oki Zomg

[zer0kage]

Order Sol's 623 HS is now 3 hits and the time for tech is long so HOS is pretty safe and depending on the height you can even go for Oki

Zomg

So SV along with AC are safer now. No wonder that May doesn't really want to punish the whiffed ones.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

Order Sol's 623 HS is now 3 hits and the time for tech is long so HOS is pretty safe and depending on the height you can even go for Oki

Zomg

Dude, that's his level 2 SV, it's always been like that. It just seems weird because HOS was at level 2 way more often, thanks to the way Charging works in AC.

[Darkhonor90]

Dude, that's his level 2 SV, it's always been like that. It just seems weird because HOS was at level 2 way more often, thanks to the way Charging works in AC.

Oh really? wow I'm very sorry then. I've NEVER seen that @_@

[RellyG]

I love his new stuff. But as for jumping straight to top-tier, which is what I'm assuming will happen, it kind of puts me off... 'cause I sorta liked using someone that no one else gave a shit about. Now people will be on Hoss like a fat chick on cake. >

.

Even if he does become top tier, I doubt too many more people will pick him up.

He's no Sol, HOS will still require specific crap to happen to get the upper hand.

Just the change to the charge will make it way easier.

[reaVer]

Oh really? wow I'm very sorry then. I've NEVER seen that @_@

Watch more kaqn, there's a new batch at gamechariot, lotsa l2 stormvipers:P

[Tage*Proto]

Wow, not sure about you guys, but that far slash looks RIDICULOUS. I agree with TB. HOS will be an extremely solid and overbearing character if things stay the same...level 3 consistent with 1 knockdown? Start thinking of different things to use your tension for.

[RedBeard]

If he jumps to upper/top tier, people will pick him up. He didn't gain much popularity in Slash(especially in non-japanese areas) for several reasons. Those being: -He's gimped -Shitty Range -Horrible gatling ability due to shitty range means if you do a j.H->Land->5K->2D it might miss. That's pathetic -Terrible damage and scaling on like everything. He's tied for like Chipp and Zappa for worst damage in the game -He's not terribly depthful in his current Slash setup -Getting to Level 3 charge is not easy, and will only happen every few matches(maybe). The reward is not worth the risk and setup usually. Chances are you'll blow your level 2 on something before then. -He has extremely few combos in his Lv1/Lv2 state, and requires very little training mode time. The good ones he does have almost all require the corner and really strict timing -Most importantly and to sub things up: He is not a solid character +Good Defense +Awesome jumping for airthrows and jumpins +DAA is great +Fast +Lv2 SV is an instant long range punish which is sick +Other small tidbits I'm sure I'm forgetting If they take away half the -'s, he becomes top tier and suddenly people will be interested in playing him. Giving him level 3 as a realistic option, extra range, and easier charging gets rid of a good 75% of his problems. Suddenly he can combo outside the corner, he has speed and range, and he can suddenly abuse his level 2 and 3 options much easier instead of staying at level 1 whole matches and being forced into gimpy combos. People won't suddenly play him for becoming top tier, I think more people will play him because he became an actual solid character, instead of his Slash model that just doesn't quite function properly.

[reaVer]

He's one of the more solid characters out there really, I mean none of his moves are that easily punished(unless you're playing like an idiot, which always remains a possibillity). I think his most major problems are his range together with his hit region. If they'd make something with Sol's HS range as crouching and standing move he'd end up so much better, even if he has a hole in his offense.

[RedBeard]

Maybe you and I think of the word solid differently. I mean who exactly do you think he's more solid than? I mean name some. Because I can't think of any except for possibly Robo-Ky, and Zappa. And even then Zappa is probably a bit above him.

[zer0kage]

I agree with Red Beard with many points here. For level 1 and 2 he doesn't have anything much in midscreen. He only can deliver real damage when he corners the opponent with his wallbounce combos or lands CHs. Order Sol has a good mixup game (he has 3 overheads including 5D) and he also totally benefits from getting CHs as CHs are the only ways he can do real good damage (like untechable GBlaze, increased hit stun for 2S, to name a few) which isn't just a wallbounce combo imo. His ODs are good like Savage Fang especially at level2. His pressure game is one of his better points also. His shitty range is what makes him fun to play as though it's a little too retarded at the moment as Red said jump ins don't have a guaranteed ground follow up. His damage proration is what really makes him pretty 'weak.' I think unrefined is a better word to describe Slash HO Sol, he is a new character after all with a unique playstyle. His AC changes like longer 2D and such are essential to give him a boost. The meter should decrease faster than the speed it is currently at or else his lockdown ability will be sick. I'm talking about lets say when the bar is completely full, it should decrease at a rate where only 3 or 2 BhBs can be done before it reaches level 2. Besides his more flexible meter system will make him a strategic character to use. Psst quite a number of people here resent Order Sol for his gimmicky gameplay thinking he is a joke of a character. :blue:

[reaVer]

Maybe you and I think of the word solid differently.

I mean who exactly do you think he's more solid than? I mean name some. Because I can't think of any except for possibly Robo-Ky, and Zappa. And even then Zappa is probably a bit above him.

My definition of solid is unpunishable. This means post-move and not anticipated punishment(stuffs). There's nothing that normally leaves him at a disadvantage greater then -3 save for SV and l1BHB up close and 6HS. That's what makes him solid. The fact he can get stuffed has nothing to do with him being solid, if he gets stuffed in any way then that's the user's mistake.

[RedBeard]

Well, getting stuffed isn't a user "mistake". It happens, and it's unavoidable. A mistake would be messing up a setup or combo, getting hit by a really bad mixup, or failing to capitalize on a good airthrow opportunity. Getting randomly stuffed by a VV is more like guessing wrong than making an actual mistake you had control over, because it's based on intuition of you guessing what the opponent will do. But yeah anyhow, when I said solid I was moreso talking about overall how well the character works. So we're talking about 2 different things. OS is not solid by the definition I'm using, mostly due to the reasons I previously listed. He doesn't exactly need huge buffs, just needs to be fixed so he actually works properly. Sure, he has good overall advantage on his pokes. But other characters more than make up for that in their range, special cancels, and gatlings.

[TITANIUM BEAST!!!]

The next person who mentions "OS problems" and "damage" in the same sentence without the "random hit" or "abare" modifier gets a kick in the face. HOS tied with Zappa for worst damage? My ASS. The level 3 point also irks me, as level 2 gives you some good stuff. Level 2 gives you the all-important lvl2BlockHeadBuster, an avenue for getting into your ideal range where you can do your useful mixups and actually deal some damage. See above though, as I said, if he remains as he is now in AC, he will be broken because level 3 is busted. Level 3 goes above and beyond making him "solid", it makes him outright abusive. Otherwise, I agree with previously made points. Range is his #1 problem right now, with damage off of random hits being a secondary one (you can actually compensate for this with good reflexes, so it doesn't concern me as much). His speed does not help to compensate for his total lack of range and random moves whiffing in strings/combos, so for me at least, that is the biggest barrier for him right now as he is far too easily zoned.

[RedBeard]

Overall compared to the rest of the cast, his damage in regards to ABARE/Random hits(happy? :p) is low. Level 2 does give some good stuff, and I wasn't really meaning to minimize it. But compare his level 2 with say..most of the cast who have some kind of FRC to get the same results, don't need to charge, and can use those FRCs after a throw or in the middle of a combo to add a good amount of damage. Again, it's not really that OS is a terrible character, he's missing fundamentals and compared to the rest of the cast he's gimpy. And as far as level 3, I don't think it should be drop dead easy to reach and keep, but hmm...I'd say moreso they just need to cut down the current model for losing 100%(200% at level 3) charge meter just for 1 special. It should be a raw 50% rate or something, I dunno.