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kenja0

[CSE] Lambda vs Taokaka

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I'm not really oversimplifying it. Pretty much the whole point of the match up is to get Tao to the corner and win(that's simplifying it). What everyone seems to be saying is that it's impossible to do anything to her under any circumstance. Which doesn't make sense to me. Tao still has to get in. That much is true. In order for her to do that, she has to risk something, she can be fancy and whatnot, but still she has to get within range of Lambda.

No, no. That isn't what we are trying to say. We are trying to say that this match-up is harder because essentially Tao's movements options makes it harder for Lambda to be Lambda. Tao has an easier time than most (probably all except Bang with D nails) characters getting in and it is safer than most's because she has drives, drive cancels and she has access to a triple jump and double air dash. You just can't stop Tao's approach without some risks while she doesn't really need to take any to get it. That is crux of the match-up there and that is the biggest point everyone is trying to get across.

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No, no. That isn't what we are trying to say. We are trying to say that this match-up is harder because essentially Tao's movements options makes it harder for Lambda to be Lambda. Tao has an easier time than most (probably all except Bang with D nails) characters getting in and it is safer than most's because she has drives, drive cancels and she has access to a triple jump and double air dash. You just can't stop Tao's approach without some risks while she doesn't really need to take any to get it. That is crux of the match-up there and that is the biggest point everyone is trying to get across.

^That

Tao has the best movement in the game, and the easiest time maneuvering through space. Lambda's entire gameplay is structured around controlling space and limiting the opponent to her control zone. Therefore, lambda, as the character, has the hardest time succeeding against a character such as Tao. It's a bad matchup in not only concept, but also in practice.

In terms of reacting to beat Tao's approach options, she can easily beat them on reaction to your reaction, if you want to trespass into that evil realm. All of her drives can be canceled at pretty much any time during their startup or active window to cleanly dodge any poke or tool you throw out via the vast amount of cancel options she has.

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It's good to know those points exist, but it's merely restating what we already know. What I was stating was that the match-up can be managed, but what everyone else stated was that it was an impossible affair from start to finish, making it sound like as soon as the round starts you might as well quit the game. The match-up is only 6-4. The only thing I've been reading so far is how good Tao is, that she has this and that, if you're trying to overcome this bad MU; we need that, but more to the point, what would Lambda's strengths be in this match-up.

Which brings me to my earlier point, how this match-up can be managed. Leading Tao into a corner or doing a mid-screen gravity combo and the game can be won. What seemed to be missed in earlier posts were the tools that Lambda can use to help her achieve that. 5D[CH] is fairly effective if the Tao is wary of air play, meaning you would have led her into it, which would also be controlling space. There is also 214D. Tao will not have 50 heat all the time and even then she will be reluctant to waste it with hopes that the Lambda's 214D might miss. Because, for some reason, I feel that 214D will hit if she does the super a fullscreen away, but not if she's within a few character lengths.

So how would you manage the air options Tao has? She doesn't have 50 heat? I'd suggest 214D. Count the air options she has. Three jumps and Two air dashes, five things she can do total, and she'll commit with at least one left, gamble with that. Tao has to risk just as much as you do with a bad decision.

I'm not really arguing for the sake of arguing. The problem I have is with the way things are explained because it seems the match-up isn't about Lambda at all, it's about Tao and how awesome she is. There has to be more to the story than that. Lambda has to be able to do something.

I really don't care how credible my opinion is on the matter, but I will commit to what I think are effective tools for this match up, which are more or less universal in other match ups.

5A: Good for random drive advances if timed well. It won't lead to great damage, however you can get a j.D or j.C combo off it and push her further toward the corner.

dash: Dashing is very useful in this match-up as in any other, to get Lambda into an adequate position, or lead Tao into the corner. A good dash can force Tao to make a risk to get in, usually a drive, and you can counter with 5A/6A.

6A: If the Tao is air crazy and you've studied her options in the air, she's probably waiting for a misplaced 2D, and if she's antsy enough, an air attack will be coming. 6A is a really powerful tool because of the reward gained from it. The problem with it though, is reacting to the reward.

2C: Like 6A, but I would use this sparingly, mainly because of how slow the recovery is. It has the same amount of reward as 6A.

2B: Lambda's best poke, good for when Tao is under sickle oki pressure, and can lead into serious damage if hit-confirmed.

j.D/j.2D: Probably one of Lambda's best options in this match-up, it has good distance, and can pick off 2 of Tao 3 venue's of attack. But it doesn't lead to high damage.

214D: If you got time to throw one of these out, do it. Covers a good amount of space and will normally force Tao into the air because she doesn't want to lose a primer. If done right you can lead her into one of your drives or even force her to do something she otherwise wouldn't.

236A/B/C: Not sure about these. 236C is probably the most useful of the trio, but I wouldn't bank on it. It's main use would be punishing Tao's in the air who doesn't barrier block, but I'm sure a smart one will do so. Like in all match-ups, you'll want to keep your distance as much as possible.

That's just the gist of it. I'm sure someone will have better suggestions as to which tools Lambda should and could use in this match-up and I welcome it, but really, praising how good Tao is in the match-up isn't enough if we're going to get any help with the match-up. Commit to something at least. I know the match-up is horrible and unfair and shouldn't exist in any form, so much so that you've become Tao at this point, but the basics of the basics is that; Tao gets in the corner, you win, she loses. That's what every Lambda should be leading her toward if they want to bring the odds in their favor.

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and she'll commit with at least one left

Landing or j.4D~any will reset that number, and neither is committing to attacking you.

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but what everyone else stated was that it was an impossible affair from start to finish, making it sound like as soon as the round starts you might as well quit the game.

That's just the gist of it. I'm sure someone will have better suggestions as to which tools Lambda should and could use in this match-up and I welcome it, but really, praising how good Tao is in the match-up isn't enough if we're going to get any help with the match-up. Commit to something at least. I know the match-up is horrible and unfair and shouldn't exist in any form, so much so that you've become Tao at this point, but the basics of the basics is that; Tao gets in the corner, you win, she loses. That's what every Lambda should be leading her toward if they want to bring the odds in their favor.

1) But the whole point of my last post was that isn't what we are saying...

2) I went to Tao because she is fun, not to counter pick. I like fighting Tao and don't think it is that hard actually. You just take a defensive, reactionary stance and stick to low risk close range moves most of the time. You can use D moves occasionally but they aren't your main offense in this match. I would be more detailed but I would need to fight XDest or Gio more before then.

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Landing or j.4D~any will reset that number, and neither is committing to attacking you.

Thanks for the heads up. j.4D~ seems more likely for a Tao right. Let's say for instance, the Lambda does count the options left, and knows a Tao will land to reset them. Can Lambda simply toss out a 5D (depending on where she lands on the screen) to get a counter hit? I'm not really sure if it's a counter hit if that's the case.

1) But the whole point of my last post was that isn't what we are saying...

2) I went to Tao because she is fun, not to counter pick. I like fighting Tao and don't think it is that hard actually. You just take a defensive, reactionary stance and stick to low risk close range moves most of the time. You can use D moves occasionally but they aren't your main offense in this match. I would be more detailed but I would need to fight XDest or Gio more before then.

I think you're right in that thought. I was bad dealing with Noel's back in CS2 so I started playing her and my match-up against her was much better because of it. So playing as Tao would probably be the best method for me to solve any woes I have with the character. Seems so counter-intuitive for a zone-type character to have to rely on her weakness to win, but knowing when and how to use that weakness could make it a strength.

Like you said, I think D moves can be used, sparingly.

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Tao's CA is ass in general. If you are close to her, it will whiff. If you have her under 236D oki, you should close the distance as soon as you can to make it whiff and get a free punish.

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